Adam Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 ANyone who votes for someone who votes against the Patriot Act is just uninformed. We have to get those people out of Congress, so they don't further try to damage our country. Without the Patriot act, the CIA and FBI become completely separate entities, and cannot coordinate their efforts to protect us from attacks. This will enable 9/11 to happen again- maybe this is what the people voting against the act are hoping for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Huh? Adam your posts usually make sense. This one is soo weird. Are you saying U.S. negligence is at fault for 9-11? Are you saying its ok to spy on people in their private homes, without any concent or proof that they did anything illegal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Huh? Adam your posts usually make sense. This one is soo weird. Are you saying U.S. negligence is at fault for 9-11? Are you saying its ok to spy on people in their private homes, without any concent or proof that they did anything illegal? 544071[/snapback] Sure. Turning over power like that to a bureaucracy has rarely had significant historic consequences. [/sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hamilton Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 ANyone who votes for someone who votes against the Patriot Act is just uninformed. We have to get those people out of Congress, so they don't further try to damage our country. Without the Patriot act, the CIA and FBI become completely separate entities, and cannot coordinate their efforts to protect us from attacks. This will enable 9/11 to happen again- maybe this is what the people voting against the act are hoping for. 543727[/snapback] I don't think any reasonable Dem or Rep would argue that the FBI and CIA shouldn't information share; what they are mostly protesting is the expansion of the powers of the agencies at the cost of civil liberties. If you will, you can be for information sharing, and against the Patriot Act II. If it didn't pass in its current state, it would pass in some form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 This will enable 9/11 to happen again- 543727[/snapback] "It will be 9/11 times 1000. That's right, 911,000." -From Team America World Police Outstanding flick. I highly recommend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 28, 2005 Author Share Posted December 28, 2005 Huh? Adam your posts usually make sense. This one is soo weird. Are you saying U.S. negligence is at fault for 9-11? Are you saying its ok to spy on people in their private homes, without any concent or proof that they did anything illegal? 544071[/snapback] Absolutely not. We had nothing in place, because nothing like that ever happened before- I do not blame anyone for that, because there is not a person alive in this country that wouldn't have done everything in their power to stop it from happening. Name a single incident of an innocent victim of the patriot act! If somebody wants to communicate with a part of the world that is suspect, then I have no problem with monitoring their communications. WE ARE AT WAR. I personally don't mind if the government monitors each and every phone call I make from at home or work- I have nothing to hide. Does anyone honestly think that the government cares about their personal lives? WE ARE AT WAR. and some things happen during a time of war that ordinarily would not be neccesary. One more thing- WE WILL WIN THE WAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Name a single incident of an innocent victim of the patriot act!544162[/snapback] For that matter, name a single success of it. I mean you specifically name one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 28, 2005 Author Share Posted December 28, 2005 For that matter, name a single success of it. I mean you specifically name one. 544178[/snapback] I suppose I could dig through old articles for specifics, but off the top of my head, wasn't used to track and break up several terrorist cells- like the one in Lackawanna? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 I suppose I could dig through old articles for specifics, but off the top of my head, wasn't used to track and break up several terrorist cells- like the one in Lackawanna? 544197[/snapback] I think you are complaing about a problem that doesn't exist. Everyone in congress wants to re-up the Patriot Act. They do want to fiddle with a few provisions that went too far but that is all. It is a bi-partisan majority that wants to trim back some of the more useless and needlessly invasive provisions. Any thought that the administration was really concerned about security evaporated pretty clearly during the wrangling in congress. Congress was willing to pass a long extension, 6 months I think, of the whole Patriot Act with no changes at all so permit time to figure out the best way to iron out the legitimate concerns of people on both sides of the issue. The administration said no way were they going to go for that. They wanted to pressure congress into passing it all now with no changes, the threat being that they would be labeled as having endangered security by voting down the entire act. The administration was playing games with national security and legit concerns over civil liberties. It was shameful. It didn't work. A bi-partisan majority called their bluff and they backed down. Suddenly they were all for an extension. You are eating right out of their hand by believing this tripe about "voting against the Patriot Act". They are all for about 97% of the Act and just want to roll back the dumb stuff in it. You are free to disagree with them but don't repeat the administration's BS that these guys want to endanger the country by embolding terrorists blah, blah, blah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 I suppose I could dig through old articles for specifics, but off the top of my head, wasn't used to track and break up several terrorist cells- like the one in Lackawanna? 544197[/snapback] In other words, you can't name a single success, nor can you name a single person who was victimized by it. Basically, you know precisely jack sh-- about how its been implemented and executed. All I really wanted to know, thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 28, 2005 Author Share Posted December 28, 2005 In other words, you can't name a single success, nor can you name a single person who was victimized by it. Basically, you know precisely jack sh-- about how its been implemented and executed. All I really wanted to know, thanks... 544250[/snapback] Wasn't it used to find that cell in Lackawanna- I WANT THE TRUTH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Wasn't it used to find that cell in Lackawanna- I WANT THE TRUTH!!! 544267[/snapback] I was the source on that. I admit it. I was at a book fair and saw some suspicious dude buy a copy of "Terrorism for Dummies" using a credit card in the name of "Al Queda Inc." I sprang into action and called John Ashcroft on his Jesus-Phone and the rest is history. Not the first time I have saved the world due to my uncanny ability to read things upside down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 28, 2005 Author Share Posted December 28, 2005 I was the source on that. I admit it. I was at a book fair and saw some suspicious dude buy a copy of "Terrorism for Dummies" using a credit card in the name of "Al Queda Inc." I sprang into action and called John Ashcroft on his Jesus-Phone and the rest is history. Not the first time I have saved the world due to my uncanny ability to read things upside down. 544300[/snapback] dude- you blew it- that was a pefect set up for a line from a few good men....you ruined it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 dude- you blew it- that was a pefect set up for a line from a few good men....you ruined it 544328[/snapback] Far too obvious a set-up. You've got to be more subtle. You can't beg for it. I don't know if it was "used" or not with the Lackawana Five. Something tells me that "use" of something so broad is a slippery concept anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Name a single incident of an innocent victim of the patriot act! That's impossibel, since all of the information is secret/classified, so we don't even know who has been watched, nor what records they are keeping on you. Kinda like the TSA with their "CAPPS II" system. This crap gets passed due to FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt - and the politicians are more than happy to keep flinging the FUD around so that people like you say, "But we NEEEEED it!" *sigh* http://www.eff.org/patriot/ If you don't care about checks and balances, then let's just get rid of the Congress, the House, etc, and just have the President make all the rules. I think the term for that is "dictatorship," but I'm afraid to look it up... CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 29, 2005 Author Share Posted December 29, 2005 That's impossibel, since all of the information is secret/classified, so we don't even know who has been watched, nor what records they are keeping on you. Kinda like the TSA with their "CAPPS II" system. This crap gets passed due to FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt - and the politicians are more than happy to keep flinging the FUD around so that people like you say, "But we NEEEEED it!" *sigh* http://www.eff.org/patriot/ If you don't care about checks and balances, then let's just get rid of the Congress, the House, etc, and just have the President make all the rules. I think the term for that is "dictatorship," but I'm afraid to look it up... CW 544371[/snapback] I do understand the fear of it being abused, but I am not concerned about losing my civil liberties- I don't feel this will affect them. The Government can listen to my conversations with my parents all they want- there is nothing to find. BUT- when trying to hide those conversations costs somebody I work with a member of their family, I find that freedom to be worthless. And to be honest, this may mean nothing, and may be self depricating, but I have done nothing to fight for those freedoms anyways, why should I consider myself and my personal freedoms more important than the lives of anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 I do understand the fear of it being abused, but I am not concerned about losing my civil liberties- I don't feel this will affect them. The Government can listen to my conversations with my parents all they want- there is nothing to find. BUT- when trying to hide those conversations costs somebody I work with a member of their family, I find that freedom to be worthless. And to be honest, this may mean nothing, and may be self depricating, but I have done nothing to fight for those freedoms anyways, why should I consider myself and my personal freedoms more important than the lives of anyone else. 544462[/snapback] Maybe because of the men and women who fought and died to give you those freedoms? In my mind, and I served in the military for over twenty years, you and I were given a precious gift by those selfless people, don't be so quick to throw that precious gift away, the lives spent to give it to you cannot be regained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Maybe because of the men and women who fought and died to give you those freedoms? In my mind, and I served in the military for over twenty years, you and I were given a precious gift by those selfless people, don't be so quick to throw that precious gift away, the lives spent to give it to you cannot be regained. 544486[/snapback] First thing you've said in weeks that I agree with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 I do understand the fear of it being abused, but I am not concerned about losing my civil liberties- I don't feel this will affect them. The Government can listen to my conversations with my parents all they want- there is nothing to find. BUT- when trying to hide those conversations costs somebody I work with a member of their family, I find that freedom to be worthless. And to be honest, this may mean nothing, and may be self depricating, but I have done nothing to fight for those freedoms anyways, why should I consider myself and my personal freedoms more important than the lives of anyone else. 544462[/snapback] In the words of Benjamin Franklin: "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security. " (also quoted as “Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”) So go for it, give up what this country was founded on. Who cares about the men and woman who died to give those freedoms to you. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Without the Patriot act, the CIA and FBI become completely separate entities, and cannot coordinate their efforts to protect us from attacks. 543727[/snapback] In order to ensure our security and continuing stability, the Republic will be reorganized into the first Galactic Empire. For a safe and secure society! -Chancellor Palpatine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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