Casey D Posted December 27, 2005 Posted December 27, 2005 They were 9-7 last year. This year has been horrible. But the team seems to have a reasonable level of talent--the Bengals game seems to indicate at least that much. The team clearly needs help on both lines. They especially must finally focus time effort and money on putting together at least a B quality line. But they have some cap room and all their draft choices plus the Henry pick and maybe some comp picks in which to do this. On the O-line, say you start with Peters, Preston and Gandy(at guard). They need to find at least two quality lineman(3 would be great but I'm at least trying to be somewhat realistic), a tackle and a guard. On defense, they need interior lineman--get some. Spikes will be back, hopefully fine by all forecasts. Crowell takes over for Posey. They tag Clements, they tweak the rest of the D, say replace Vincent. You do that, plus get Everett in as TE, why can't this team get a lot better faster. I know they have to make some good personnel decisions, and I know that mistakes might be made in that regard in the past, but maybe this isn't so hopeless after all. I mean, look at how teams like the Giants turned it around quickly.
Billsjunkie Posted December 27, 2005 Posted December 27, 2005 The giants also stuck with Eli and his growing pains last year. We havent........We are going no where with Holcombe at the helm. No where.
JimBob2232 Posted December 27, 2005 Posted December 27, 2005 Dont forget he will be 33 years old on opening day. He is no spring chicken
Casey D Posted December 27, 2005 Author Posted December 27, 2005 The giants also stuck with Eli and his growing pains last year. We havent........We are going no where with Holcombe at the helm. No where. 543465[/snapback] I have not looked at the complete stats, but Losman got about the same amount of experience this year as Manning did last year. If Losman is improving--and I think he is-- and he is any good at all, he will be in same position as Manning.
HarkinBanks Posted December 27, 2005 Posted December 27, 2005 They were 9-7 last year. This year has been horrible. But the team seems to have a reasonable level of talent--the Bengals game seems to indicate at least that much. The team clearly needs help on both lines. They especially must finally focus time effort and money on putting together at least a B quality line. But they have some cap room and all their draft choices plus the Henry pick and maybe some comp picks in which to do this. On the O-line, say you start with Peters, Preston and Gandy(at guard). They need to find at least two quality lineman(3 would be great but I'm at least trying to be somewhat realistic), a tackle and a guard. On defense, they need interior lineman--get some. Spikes will be back, hopefully fine by all forecasts. Crowell takes over for Posey. They tag Clements, they tweak the rest of the D, say replace Vincent. You do that, plus get Everett in as TE, why can't this team get a lot better faster. I know they have to make some good personnel decisions, and I know that mistakes might be made in that regard in the past, but maybe this isn't so hopeless after all. I mean, look at how teams like the Giants turned it around quickly. 543461[/snapback] I really hope Clements is gone. He is overrated and way too full of himself. Our D has been lousy with him all year anyway. Better to save the $$ and find a young guy (or three) with a good attitude that we can hopefully win with.
Casey D Posted December 27, 2005 Author Posted December 27, 2005 I really hope Clements is gone. He is overrated and way too full of himself. Our D has been lousy with him all year anyway. Better to save the $$ and find a young guy (or three) with a good attitude that we can hopefully win with. 543522[/snapback] You can tag him for $5-6M. If we could get any kind of a pass rush, he'll bounce back. That's not that much for a top 10 CB, which he still is, IMO...Cd
WVUFootball29 Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 I have not looked at the complete stats, but Losman got about the same amount of experience this year as Manning did last year. If Losman is improving--and I think he is-- and he is any good at all, he will be in same position as Manning. 543478[/snapback] Its a little different than the Warner/Manning situation last year in NY. Manning pretty much sat until week 11 of his rookie campaign then was given the team and they havent looked back. On the other hand, the Bills had no choice to but sit Losman most of his rookie due to a broken leg in practice. Then in his second season, he's thrown right into the mix, then pulled out, then put back in, then pulled out. JP wont make progress until this team decides to stick with him for the long haul at this point.
respk Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 I've read this same comment many times here and had to look the stats up to see the comparison of Manning and Losman. It looks like JP has more experience this year than Manning did last year. You might have a point that Mannings experience came all in one shot. However, that argument is weak at best and probably irrelevant. Unless of course Losman's short term memory is very poor and he can't remember from snap to snap. Sometimes it has looked like that this year. In any event Losman won't be ready next year either. Manning was a better QB coming out of college. I'm thinking it will be another 1 or 2 years before Losman is competent enough to get to the playoffs. If your the Bills coach, just how much patience can you afford to have? The Bills better have plan B available just like this year cause JP ain't ready and won't be for some time. Manning stats http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493004 Losman stats http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493000 The giants also stuck with Eli and his growing pains last year. We havent........We are going no where with Holcombe at the helm. No where. 543465[/snapback]
KOKBILLS Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 They were 9-7 last year. This year has been horrible. But the team seems to have a reasonable level of talent--the Bengals game seems to indicate at least that much. The team clearly needs help on both lines. They especially must finally focus time effort and money on putting together at least a B quality line. But they have some cap room and all their draft choices plus the Henry pick and maybe some comp picks in which to do this. On the O-line, say you start with Peters, Preston and Gandy(at guard). They need to find at least two quality lineman(3 would be great but I'm at least trying to be somewhat realistic), a tackle and a guard. On defense, they need interior lineman--get some. Spikes will be back, hopefully fine by all forecasts. Crowell takes over for Posey. They tag Clements, they tweak the rest of the D, say replace Vincent. You do that, plus get Everett in as TE, why can't this team get a lot better faster. I know they have to make some good personnel decisions, and I know that mistakes might be made in that regard in the past, but maybe this isn't so hopeless after all. I mean, look at how teams like the Giants turned it around quickly. 543461[/snapback] There is really no reason the Bills can't bounce back next year...well...unless they simply ignore their most basic needs...and I doubt that happens... But the Cincy Game alone is definitely not an indication of anything except the "On and given Sunday (Sat in this case)" rule...It was one Game...Cincy is a good Team, but they are also a young Team...And young Teams get caught in overconfidence traps every now and again...So when a 4-10 Team is coming into their Backyard, and their WR is talking about End Zone celebrations 4 days before the Game, one can imagine confidently that the Bungals may have been looking past the Bills regardless of what their Coaches likely warned to the contrary...It's a natural reaction from a Young Team...At least that's what I took from it... Not to take anything away from the Bills...They Played, and the Coaches Coached a real good Game...But I would imagine in a best of 10 at Cincy this year the Bills would win 3 of those Games tops... The Bills are a 5-10 Team and for the most part they have Played and Coached like a 5-10 Team this Season...They have talent, granted they need more, but what they need even more than talent is belief and mental toughness... I don't feel the Bills can move much past average, regardless of personnel upgrades in 2006 with the current Coaching Staff...I think 8-8 would be a HUGE improvement next Season if MM is back...I think with the right Coaching Staff (along with those needed personnel moves) they could make a much bigger jump in 2006...But that's just me...
Rico Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 I don't feel the Bills can move much past average, regardless of personnel upgrades in 2006 with the current Coaching Staff...I think 8-8 would be a HUGE improvement next Season if MM is back...I think with the right Coaching Staff (along with those needed personnel moves) they could make a much bigger jump in 2006...But that's just me... 543817[/snapback] It's not just you. A whole lot of people in here say that starting Holcomb is the wrong move.... that KH is not the future, that he will never be able to take a team to a Super Bowl and win it, that the Bills are just wasting precious time by playing him. I think the exact same can be said about MM. MM is not the future. MM will never be able to take a team to a Super Bowl and win it, and the Bills are just wasting precious time by keeping him as HC. I see a lot of people calling for Losman to start are the same people saying give MM another chance... and I say to myself, WTF?
WVUFootball29 Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 I've read this same comment many times here and had to look the stats up to see the comparison of Manning and Losman. It looks like JP has more experience this year than Manning did last year. You might have a point that Mannings experience came all in one shot. However, that argument is weak at best and probably irrelevant. Unless of course Losman's short term memory is very poor and he can't remember from snap to snap. Sometimes it has looked like that this year. In any event Losman won't be ready next year either. Manning was a better QB coming out of college. I'm thinking it will be another 1 or 2 years before Losman is competent enough to get to the playoffs. If your the Bills coach, just how much patience can you afford to have? The Bills better have plan B available just like this year cause JP ain't ready and won't be for some time. Manning stats http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493004 Losman stats http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493000 543793[/snapback] Weak at best??? The team isnt making a commitment to him...anytime he starts to play bad he gets yanked. I'm sorry, but you can't expect a QB to develop if there isnt any consistency in his practice and playing time. Its like a starting pitcher in baseball...he's not going to get many wins if you yank him out of the lineup in the 5th inning on a consistent basis and have him alternate between the starting rotation and the bullpen. This team needs to pick and QB and stay with him. Personally, I'd find it a complete waste of a first round pick if we decide to put Losman on the bench. BTW, Cap'n DinkandDuck hasnt proven to be much better this year...he's won 3 games...3 games. And out of those games the only one he really played well in was the Cincy game. He's been in the league 9 years and has never been a consistent starter...there might be a reason for that. "But JP has only won 2 games and cost us many more." Yeah he's only won 2 games, but I fail to see any that he has lost single-handedly for us. The problem this year with Losman at the beginning was that he was getting his feet wet for the first time, which is understandable for a first year starter. Then he got yanked, some think that helped because when he came back as the starter he looked better...but I think he would have gotten his feet under him without being demoted. In the games Losman started after the KC game, MM pretty much made Losman the focal point of the offense and put the entire burden of scoring on his shoulders. We pretty much abandoned our running, (see the Miami debacle for proof) and at no point this season did the coaching staff design the offensive gameplan so that JP only had to manage the offense. Take a look at Big Ben's first year at QB, Roethlisberger 2004 , at no point in that season was Ben asked to shoulder the entire load of the offense, nor was his offense put in a tough situation by his defense. Thats good coaching! If buffalo has anyone hope of improving next year they need to pick one QB and stay with him. If the Bills have no confidence in Losman they might as well cut him and grab a solid back up for General Checkdown, because I'm sure JP, like any first round pick, is not going to be satisfied with the number 2 role, which will only make things worse in the Buffalo locker room.
Buftex Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 On defense, they need interior lineman--get some. Spikes will be back, hopefully fine by all forecasts. Crowell takes over for Posey. They tag Clements, they tweak the rest of the D, say replace Vincent. 543461[/snapback] I think the Bills can bounce back next year... Why not franchise Clements, if someone wants to overpay him, move Vincent back to the corner position, which I believe, he could still excell at. If nobody signs Clements, no problem, we have a good (if not slightly overrated) corner. If we lose him, Vincent can fill in, short term. I know Vincent has had some rough games at safety this year, but he still has speed, and can still play the ball as well, if not better, than anyone else on this roster. He is just an old dog, who may not be able to learn a new trick. He and Milloy are both up and down at the safety positions. IMO, replacing Milloy may be a more pressing issue.
Fan in San Diego Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 I agree ! we have a lot of talent at the skill positions but not at the Line positions. Upgrade there and we have a good team again.
frogger Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 We have seen it happen before, the 1999 Rams for example, no one expected what they did, but a coach that inspires and a team that has had so many down years, get a break and amounts to something, world champs! However I don't feel MM inspires, we need an emotional leader to this team. Next year i see our defense getting better, the addition of a 1st round draft pick and an active offseason will help our defense, but we can't go through another offseason of expecting players to step up. Or to overachieve, Mike Gandy was released by a sorry team, now he is starting at the most important position on our line, and he might be the 2nd best player we have. We can't release vets, if we want a turn around we have to keep our talent, at least the talent that wants to remain. Releasing Moulds for example would be a HUGE mistake, without him we have 3 WR that stand 5'10" or less. He also is the leader of our offense. young QB+ poor offensive line+short WR=sacks and ints, if you can't protect Losman and he can't just wing the ball in the area of a WR he is more than likely going to throw ints and get sacked. Eli Maning has had a good year because he has tall WRs, a good TE, a good RB release and an improving line.
bluv Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 It's not just you. A whole lot of people in here say that starting Holcomb is the wrong move.... that KH is not the future, that he will never be able to take a team to a Super Bowl and win it, that the Bills are just wasting precious time by playing him. I think the exact same can be said about MM. MM is not the future. MM will never be able to take a team to a Super Bowl and win it, and the Bills are just wasting precious time by keeping him as HC. I see a lot of people calling for Losman to start are the same people saying give MM another chance... and I say to myself, WTF? 543821[/snapback] And that is why I made the statement that that win against the Bengals was probably the worse "win" ever for what did we gain? A QB controversy and a nother year or atrocious coaching. All it did was make outsiders and some fans here question JP even more, wonder about what if KH had started or what he can do as a starter next year and give the impression that coaching staff can get it done when in reality this is what has held the team back the most. I'd hate to see this same coaching staff back next year trying to sell us KH as a starter. For with a few additions maybe we could turn things around and become a CONTENDOR but not with KH as the starter and certainly not with this coaching staff. A fluke win against a good teamcan cause such dilusion. In the offseason some will noticed that KH had 300 yards against the Bengals and was key to the win but not remember that McGee had 2 TD's on returns and that the Bengals secondary had played awful the past few weeks.
BB2004 Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 The giants also stuck with Eli and his growing pains last year. We havent........We are going no where with Holcombe at the helm. No where. 543465[/snapback] You're not going to give a rookie/2nd year QB confidence with a below average offensive line. Holcomb as the starter is alright at the last game at this point.
dogbyte Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 Maybe JP is not a good as we think.The coaches see him at pratice every week. It is up to the coach to build a winning team and to play the players that give him that chance. It is not the coach's fault the JP is not ready to play at the NFL level. If he can not do it at practice how do we expect him to do it at game time. I have only see JP do the long ball but is having problems with the other aspects of the game.
Casey D Posted December 28, 2005 Author Posted December 28, 2005 You're not going to give a rookie/2nd year QB confidence with a below average offensive line. Holcomb as the starter is alright at the last game at this point. 543946[/snapback] That's an interesting observation. I think there might be genuine concerns that JP may be permanently scarred as a potential QB playing behind that line. Once bad habits set in because of the pressure, they are hard to unlearn. It is tough enough for a young QB to get up to the speed of the NFL game, but it is absurdly hard when you OL can't get to one Mississippi before you are covered in opposing players. Just a thought...CD
Dan Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 Here in lies the problem with this team for years - the belief that we just need to tweak a few positions here and there and all will be ok. Because so and so isn't that bad, he just needs more coaching. Because this guy was good and just had a bad year. Because that guy has potential he just needs time to realize it. Well, after years of mediocrity, can anyone really say that ANY player on our team is worth keeping? Now, I'm not suggesting that we dump everyone. Certainly some players are good. But let's take a few examples, Clements - he's a good corner and we should definitely try to keep him. But is he a top 3 corner, absolutely not. So, if he doesn't want to deal that screw him. Moulds - he's a good reciever, sure. But, if he's going to cop an attitude every time the coaches make a decision that he doesn't like then he should be gone. Anyone on the O-line - none of these guys are starters in this league. IMO, they all need to be replaced or back ups next season, with the possible exception of Peters. Let's face it no one on this team has shown that they're indispensable with their play. As far as JP goes. I'd rather have a qb of the future that provides consistent play and leader ship for the next 10-15 years, than a journeyman QB that gives an 8-8, 9-7 type season for the next 2 years. But, if you go with JP, you have to realize we're probably going to suck for a year or 2. When they dumped Bledsoe last year, I should have taken bets; because no way did I think JP was going to get us in the playoffs this year. But everyone was so sure Bledsoe was the reason we didn't make it. So, I'm not totally upset with our record this year. I saw JP as possibly getting us to 8-8 - if a few balls bounce our way we're 10-6 (like most everyone seemd to thing we'd be); if a few balls don't bounce our way we're 6-10 (more along the lines of what I expected). The biggest problem I have with JP is we didn't stick with him and let him take his lumps. All we've done is dramatically delay the team's development (not just his). A year has gone by and still noone (not the coaches, notthe fans, and not the other players) is sure whether JP is the consistent QB a team needs. So, there's still this big question mark hanging over perhaps the most critical position on the team. So, now what will we get - another off season thinking just get one or 2 players, tweak this, put a band-aid over that, keep the players that we love (because they used to be great or because we want them to be great), keep the cheap players, and maybe we can spin it for another year. Building a team should be quite simple - get a front office that can evaluate players (and not just on talent, but on how they fit into your team); get a coaching staff that can inspire and develop game plans for the players they have (not the players they want to have); keep veteran players that have proven to be above average AND buy into your team's philosophy and style of play; bring in free agents and rookies that appear to be promising AND buy into your team's philosophy and style of play. The problem with the Bills as I see it is that we don't seem to have any of that right now. And perhaps the most important aspect - a team philosophy and style of play - that players and coaches can buy into and rally behind, is sadly missing. We seem to have a whole bunch of talent and staff all running in different directions and none of them are sure how to focus their talents and time.
krazykat Posted December 28, 2005 Posted December 28, 2005 I have not looked at the complete stats, but Losman got about the same amount of experience this year as Manning did last year. If Losman is improving--and I think he is-- and he is any good at all, he will be in same position as Manning. 543478[/snapback] Manning had a team and a line.
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