Mickey Posted December 27, 2005 Author Share Posted December 27, 2005 I am truly dumfounded by VABills. I would like to know if he is consistant. If it is OK for christians to conduct nonlethal firebombings of clinics because of their sinfull ways, i.e. "abortion (killing)," then is it ok for christians to conduct non-lethal firebombings of Courts for condemning someone to death (killing)? 543556[/snapback] His answer would depend upon whether or not he is for or against the death penalty. VABills: The Lawgiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 What is with the dove selling? Was the dove market a major thing back then? Were they the pornagraphers of their day or something? Of all the things to make it into the Bible, the holiest book in Christendom. Dove merchants? It's like a Monty Python skit. 543557[/snapback] Mamas, don't let your sons grow up to be Dove Merchants..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 You questioned how a christian could beleive as I. I won't even get into how you convert my opposition to firebombing clinics to one where I condone the murder of children. Given your ability to leap synaptic canyons in a single bound, that bit of sleigth of mind certainly must have posed no difficulty for you. You don't see the conceit in questioning the bona fides of another christian's faith or in demanding that your conclusion that abortion is murder be the conclusion that all must reach? Again, you make the point perfectly. Your argument on abortion in a nutshell is that what you believe is the correct belief and the only belief, so much so that even firebombing clinics is defensible. All who disagree condone baby murdering. End of story, end of thought. I disagree with you and in so doing, all I really said on the issue was that I was against fire bombing clinics. From that you leapt to my not being christian enough and a baby murder fan to boot. And in all of that you see no conceit, not a drop of "Holier than thou?" 543451[/snapback] No I don't. I know that you seem to think that the firebombers are worse then the abortionists. Well I say that millions of babies are killed every year by abortionists, yet few are sent to meet their maker by firebombers. Hence it is a sin on a whole different level. You seem to think that it is an horrible crime and sin to put these murderers out of business, yet you say nothing to condemn what they do. In my mind, if you are not against them you are for them. That is not conceit. You don't know me at all, nor have never read what I have written if you think that I will ever think abortion okay. It is a horrible crime to take a life that was put here for a reason, and yet we know not what it was for because it was stopped becuase it was an inconvienence, wrong sex, or a myriad of others problems that the mother didn't want to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 What is with the dove selling? Was the dove market a major thing back then? Were they the pornagraphers of their day or something? Of all the things to make it into the Bible, the holiest book in Christendom. Dove merchants? Can you imagine the conversation when Matthew is trying to remember what happened years later and write it down or whoever it was writing it down? "Let me see now, what kind of merchants were there? Well, there had to be moneychangers, afterall, what is a market without moneychangers after all. What else though, what other merchants were there....hmmmm.....Oh, oh, oh, I remember now, doves, there were lots and lots of doves. Big sale, huge sale on pidgeons, lines around the temple, everyone looking for a good deal on a pidgeon." It's like a Monty Python skit. 543557[/snapback] Sounds like one of the outtakes from Life of Brian. Just a guess...but I'd bet doves were a big deal in Jewish custom of the time, given the prominent role the dove has in Genesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 No I don't. I know that you seem to think that the firebombers are worse then the abortionists. Well I say that millions of babies are killed every year by abortionists, yet few are sent to meet their maker by firebombers. Hence it is a sin on a whole different level. You seem to think that it is an horrible crime and sin to put these murderers out of business, yet you say nothing to condemn what they do. In my mind, if you are not against them you are for them. That is not conceit. This is the weirdest combination of moral absolutism and moral relativism I've ever seen... You don't know me at all, nor have never read what I have written if you think that I will ever think abortion okay. It is a horrible crime to take a life that was put here for a reason, and yet we know not what it was for because it was stopped becuase it was an inconvienence, wrong sex, or a myriad of others problems that the mother didn't want to deal with. 543564[/snapback] Maybe the reason that life that is taken was put here, was to be taken... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted December 27, 2005 Author Share Posted December 27, 2005 No I don't. I know that you seem to think that the firebombers are worse then the abortionists. Well I say that millions of babies are killed every year by abortionists, yet few are sent to meet their maker by firebombers. Hence it is a sin on a whole different level. You seem to think that it is an horrible crime and sin to put these murderers out of business, yet you say nothing to condemn what they do. In my mind, if you are not against them you are for them. That is not conceit. You don't know me at all, nor have never read what I have written if you think that I will ever think abortion okay. It is a horrible crime to take a life that was put here for a reason, and yet we know not what it was for because it was stopped becuase it was an inconvienence, wrong sex, or a myriad of others problems that the mother didn't want to deal with. 543564[/snapback] You call them abortionists, others call them doctors. You call them murderers, others call them law abiding physicians. You seem to beleive that you are right, right, right and if others don't agree, too bad. Your view is the only view because it is the right view. You know you are right and that is that. What's more, even God says you are right. That is the very definition of righteousness. You are not content with deciding this issue for yourself, you want to decide it for everyone else using the law. Those who disagree, you beat over the head calling them baby killers. What I am not against, you declare I am for. Again, you decide the rules and declare the results. I am against abortion so I will never have one. Any pregnant woman who has asked my advise on the issue, not many but some actually have, I have advised them and tried to persuade them against an abortion. If they changed their minds, great, if they didn't, I didn't firebomb their house. I let them decide for themselves their course and leave to them to live with the consequences of their own decisions. I don't berate them as baby killers, a ridiculous term. An example. If you kill someone who you thought was a threat to you, it is not murder and you are not a murderer. You acted in self defense. If it turns out that you were wrong in that belief, that the other person was a threat, are you then a killer, a murderer? Certainly not if you believed in your heart that he was a threat and that you had no choice. You are therefore not a killer. These doctors and these women do not think the embryo is a human life thus they do not believe they are killing anyone, let alone a baby. They may be mistaken, they may be closing their eyes to what is happening, I don't know. I do know however that they aren't running around intending to "murder babies". You and yours don't care about that because the "baby killer" rhetoric is just too valuable, too emotionally appealing to you to consider for a moment whether or not it really fits. Do you really think that is they way to persuade a woman contemplating an abortion to have the baby, call her a baby killer? Its okay though, you can throw around those allegations those hysterical accusations of the worst kind. It is all justified because you are right, right, right, right. The knower of all things. So why not, firebomb away, VABills says it is just. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted December 27, 2005 Author Share Posted December 27, 2005 Sounds like one of the outtakes from Life of Brian. Just a guess...but I'd bet doves were a big deal in Jewish custom of the time, given the prominent role the dove has in Genesis. 543566[/snapback] Okay, now I have to go back and see what in the world doves were doing in Genesis that was so prominent because I didn't know there were any doves, or even dove bars, in Genesis. See how freely we self proclaimed intellectuals profess our ignorance? When did all that self proclaiming go on anyway? Was that in the IBP period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC-Bills Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 ... yet we know not what it was for because it was stopped becuase it was an inconvienence, wrong sex, or a myriad of others problems that the mother didn't want to deal with. 543564[/snapback] There you go again making judgements. I know women who have had abortions. It wasn't a "oh, it's 5 minutes to 3, I think I'll go have an abortion" decision. It was anything but an easy decision for them. But you go ahead and label them because it's easier than realizing that things aren't black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Okay, now I have to go back and see what in the world doves were doing in Genesis that was so prominent because I didn't know there were any doves, or even dove bars, in Genesis. See how freely we self proclaimed intellectuals profess our ignorance? When did all that self proclaiming go on anyway? Was that in the IBP period? 543577[/snapback] Generally they were sacrficed to appease YHWH for personal or communal sins. I think in the end YHWH decided he didn't have much use for this system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 Okay, now I have to go back and see what in the world doves were doing in Genesis that was so prominent because I didn't know there were any doves, or even dove bars, in Genesis. See how freely we self proclaimed intellectuals profess our ignorance? When did all that self proclaiming go on anyway? Was that in the IBP period? 543577[/snapback] The flood. Noah releases a dove, which brings the olive leaf. I remember from Sunday School that that was some sort of big symbolic deal, aside from the whole "Hooray! Dry land!" thing. Oddly, there's no references to firebombing anything, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 The flood. Noah releases a dove, which brings the olive leaf. I remember from Sunday School that that was some sort of big symbolic deal, aside from the whole "Hooray! Dry land!" thing. Oddly, there's no references to firebombing anything, though... 543586[/snapback] Very hard to Firebomb an ocean, and reports to the contrary I am told it is hard to fish that way too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC-Bills Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 ...Oddly, there's no references to firebombing anything, though... 543586[/snapback] Maybe that's in the unabridged version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted December 27, 2005 Share Posted December 27, 2005 You call them abortionists, others call them doctors. You call them murderers, others call them law abiding physicians. You seem to beleive that you are right, right, right and if others don't agree, too bad. Your view is the only view because it is the right view. You know you are right and that is that. What's more, even God says you are right. That is the very definition of righteousness. You are not content with deciding this issue for yourself, you want to decide it for everyone else using the law. Those who disagree, you beat over the head calling them baby killers. What I am not against, you declare I am for. Again, you decide the rules and declare the results. I am against abortion so I will never have one. Any pregnant woman who has asked my advise on the issue, not many but some actually have, I have advised them and tried to persuade them against an abortion. If they changed their minds, great, if they didn't, I didn't firebomb their house. I let them decide for themselves their course and leave to them to live with the consequences of their own decisions. I don't berate them as baby killers, a ridiculous term. An example. If you kill someone who you thought was a threat to you, it is not murder and you are not a murderer. You acted in self defense. If it turns out that you were wrong in that belief, that the other person was a threat, are you then a killer, a murderer? Certainly not if you believed in your heart that he was a threat and that you had no choice. You are therefore not a killer. These doctors and these women do not think the embryo is a human life thus they do not believe they are killing anyone, let alone a baby. They may be mistaken, they may be closing their eyes to what is happening, I don't know. I do know however that they aren't running around intending to "murder babies". You and yours don't care about that because the "baby killer" rhetoric is just too valuable, too emotionally appealing to you to consider for a moment whether or not it really fits. Do you really think that is they way to persuade a woman contemplating an abortion to have the baby, call her a baby killer? Its okay though, you can throw around those allegations those hysterical accusations of the worst kind. It is all justified because you are right, right, right, right. The knower of all things. So why not, firebomb away, VABills says it is just. 543572[/snapback] Again, not what I said, but continue your fantasy. BTW, I do not condone firebombing clinics, but I find it a less horrible thing then killing a child. Either is truely a sin, but again take what I say out of the context it was written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 How can one be Christian and support abortion? I believe the Bible has enough indicators that to show that abortion (killing) is a sin. I also believe that there is a passage to the effect of killing his children is the worst sin of all. 543395[/snapback] How can one be Christian and support war? Or are people only worthwhile PRIOR to being born? I guess perusing some of these posts, that's not as wacked-out as it sounds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 How can one be Christian and support war? Or are people only worthwhile PRIOR to being born? I guess perusing some of these posts, that's not as wacked-out as it sounds... 543671[/snapback] It's the Reagan philosophy. Life begins at conception and ends at birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hamilton Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Sounds like one of the outtakes from Life of Brian. Just a guess...but I'd bet doves were a big deal in Jewish custom of the time, given the prominent role the dove has in Genesis. 543566[/snapback] People sacrificed the doves in the Temple. Strangely, my basis for this is Anne Rice's new book "Christ the Lord." In it, the boy Jesus sacrifices a dove at the Temple in Jerusalem. As an aside, only the 12th in this thread, the book was pretty good. Rice wrote this book from the first person... that person being Jesus. Pretty bold. But she's eschewed her wierdness (her old mixes of the occult, homosexuality, and erotica) and writes a truly compassionate story of a possible boyhood of Jesus. I expected barbs and heresy. There was none that I found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 ..... I didn't know there were any .... dove bars, in Genesis. 543577[/snapback] Oohhhh, chocolate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilltheCat Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 No I don't. I know that you seem to think that the firebombers are worse then the abortionists. Well I say that millions of babies are killed every year by abortionists, yet few are sent to meet their maker by firebombers. Hence it is a sin on a whole different level. You seem to think that it is an horrible crime and sin to put these murderers out of business, yet you say nothing to condemn what they do. In my mind, if you are not against them you are for them. That is not conceit. You don't know me at all, nor have never read what I have written if you think that I will ever think abortion okay. It is a horrible crime to take a life that was put here for a reason, and yet we know not what it was for because it was stopped becuase it was an inconvienence, wrong sex, or a myriad of others problems that the mother didn't want to deal with. 543564[/snapback] No offense meant but I think it is generally parent(s) that choose abortions and the doctor is but the tool chosen for the task. Similar to a gun in some ways. I may not agree with abortion but I do not have the "right" to suggest others follow my personal beliefs based on my interpretation of events (or religious literature). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 How can one be Christian and support war? Or are people only worthwhile PRIOR to being born? I guess perusing some of these posts, that's not as wacked-out as it sounds... 543671[/snapback] That blows my mind. Here's another one. What if cyan was really tangerine and tangerine was really cyan? Like, wow dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeseburger_in_paradise Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 People sacrificed the doves in the Temple. Strangely, my basis for this is Anne Rice's new book "Christ the Lord." In it, the boy Jesus sacrifices a dove at the Temple in Jerusalem. As an aside, only the 12th in this thread, the book was pretty good. Rice wrote this book from the first person... that person being Jesus. Pretty bold. But she's eschewed her wierdness (her old mixes of the occult, homosexuality, and erotica) and writes a truly compassionate story of a possible boyhood of Jesus. I expected barbs and heresy. There was none that I found. 543753[/snapback] The Bible tells us little about the life of Jesus in his formative years. I've sometimes tried to interpret this to mean we should hear little from our male children between the ages of 12 and 30. No sale at my house. Anyway, a pastor once told me that there are writings about Jesus that are not in the Bible, about miracles performed, and doves. Some anchient editorial staff decided the stories were not credible enough to be included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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