Profiles in Christianity

[SilverNRed]

I have no idea what the percentage is. 

 

I appreciate your personal observations but they are just that.  I too have had made personal observations to the contrary.  I have known a number of racists in my life but almost none who thought they were.  I had a boss once who very seriously believed that black people were inferior and he could prove it, he once said, because "all the good inventions were invented by white people."  He didn't think he was a racist at all.

 

As for common sense, doesn't it also seem to be common sense that racism need not be by committee or conspiracy to be significant?  The guy doing the hiring, the guy deciding on whether or not to issue a loan, etc., that is all it takes, no e-mails necessary. 

 

The days of lynchings are not ancient history.  Racists in America didn't all go to bed one night and awake the next completely reborn.  That kind of thinking is not going to just vanish.  White Power groups are on the fringes but their numbers are surprisingly large.

 

This is really where right and left disagree on race.  One side sees racism as over and done with, the other doesn't.  Blacks themselves, who if their is significant racism out there experience it first hand, clearly see it as a major problem.

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Ironically, I think this is a big problem for a lot of black people. I think a lot of black people are brought up to think that they are victims of racism and that they won't be allowed to succeed in America and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Their motivation to stay in school and go to college has to suffer. You tell someone every day of their life that they're worthless and they'll start to believe it. You tell someone every day of their life that everyone else hates them because of their skin and eventually they'll believe that too.

 

The days of lynchings are not ancient history but they might as well be. Turn on the TV and have a look around. Saying racism is this huge problem now because there used to be lynchings not that long ago is like trying to minimize email now just because no one had heard of it just 15 years ago.

 

I'll add another instance where the left and right disagree on race. People on the right seem extra fed up with 'race hustlers' who play the race card to their advantage every time they think it can help them.

[Mickey]

no.  the original post was claiming that Poverty was an issue of race.

I was saying poverty was an issue of "lazy".

 

are all people living in poverty lazy? no. 

are some?  abso-damn-lutely.

are most?  i don't know that percentages....but if i were a gambling man, i would say most have mutiple reasons for being in poverty.  one reason is "lazy".

 

are you saying that people that live below the poverty level aren't lazy?

 

I am sure you would have to agree that the answer is "yes...some people in poverty are lazy". 

 

That is when I would pull a "Mickey" and say.....Ah-haa...so you are saying Blacks in poverty are lazy.

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I didn't know what you meant, so I asked. It sounded awful bad so I thought I'd let you clear that up. Thus, in a post where I asked for a clarification first before being critical, you B word about me jumping to conclusions. Can't win with you.

 

You are misquoting what Oliver said. The point he made, in a debate about whether or not blacks were persecuted in this country, was that their living below the poverty level in such disproportionate numbers was evidence of that persecution. He wasn't making the point that black people are poor because they are black. There was no need for you to point out that "poverty is not an issue of race". He never said it was. He did say that racism, ie, persecution of blacks, results in their being diproportionately poor. By saying that "poverty is not an issue of race", do you mean to say that racism plays no role in poverty? I am just asking for clarification.

 

In any event, it was in response to tha point by Oliver that you piped up with the comment about being "lazy". It might be a shock to you but historically, one of the most insidious and racist stereotypes about blacks has been that they are lazy. As you say, there are plenty of reasons why a person might be poor but you didn't bring up all those others such as disability, factory closing or whatever. No, the one you reached for was "lazy" and, in the middle of a debate about racism no less. Oliver says blacks are disproportionately poor and you say the poor (the people Oliver just said are disproporionately black) are lazy. That is awful close to saying that blacks, the poor ones anyway, are lazy. Again, I didn't think that is what you meant, so I asked.

[Mickey]

Ironically, I think this is a big problem for a lot of black people.  I think a lot of black people are brought up to think that they are victims of racism and that they won't be allowed to succeed in America and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Their motivation to stay in school and go to college has to suffer.  You tell someone every day of their life that they're worthless and they'll start to believe it.  You tell someone every day of their life that everyone else hates them because of their skin and eventually they'll believe that too.

 

The days of lynchings are not ancient history but they might as well be.  Turn on the TV and have a look around.  Saying racism is this huge problem now because there used to be lynchings not that long ago is like trying to minimize email now just because no one had heard of it just 15 years ago.

 

I'll add another instance where the left and right disagree on race.  People on the right seem extra fed up with 'race hustlers' who play the race card to their advantage every time they think it can help them.

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You probably don't mean it that way but is sounds like you are saying that blacks themselves are not able to judge whether they are really victimized by racism or not, but that you can. I don't think blacks are any more vulnerable to being brain washed into thinking something is true that is not true. I think they are just as able to judge when they have been vicitmized by racism as anyone else. I also think that by and large they actually far better judges of how much racism there is against blacks out there than a couple of white guys arguing on a message board. Especially one who is relying on what they see on TV as proof that racism is ancient history.

 

The last mass lynching, not the last lynching mind you, the last mass lynching was in 1946 in Georgia. Four young blacks, two girls and two boys, were

shot to death by an angry white mob. As of 2003, no one was indicted, no one charged, no one was convicted, no one was punished. That was only 58 years ago. Both of my parents were old enough to read about in the papers when it happened and they are both around today. Do you think the racists in that mob all just vanished one day? Has anyone in that mob ever come forward to finger the guilty parties? No, not in the '60's, the '70's, the '80's, etc. Millions of Americans who were around then, in those ancient days of yore when racism still roamed the earth, are still around now. Some to remember it, some to condemn it, some to......

 

How old are you?

[SilverNRed]

You probably don't mean it that way but is sounds like you are saying that blacks themselves are not able to judge whether they are really victimized by racism or not, but that you can. I don't think blacks are any more vulnerable to being brain washed into thinking something is true that is not true.  I think they are just as able to judge when they have been vicitmized by racism as anyone else.  I also think that by and large they actually far better judges of how much racism there is against blacks out there than a couple of white guys arguing on a message board. 

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No, that's not what I said. How many times in one thread are you going to use the "I know you aren't saying this but here's how it sounds..." argument? What's the point of talking to you if you're going to go out of your way to purposely twist the meanings of what everyone is saying to what you think it might maybe, kinda sound like?

 

Especially one who is relying on what they see on TV as proof that racism is ancient history.

If America is packed to the gills with racists, why do we enjoy so many performers of different colors and backgrounds? That doesn't make much sense. That is, unless you're relying on information that's 60 years old and - oh wait....

 

The last mass lynching, not the last lynching mind you, the last mass lynching was in 1946 in Georgia.  Four young blacks, two girls and two boys, were shot to death by an angry white mob.  As of 2003, no one was indicted, no one charged, no one was convicted, no one was punished.  That was only 58 years ago.  Both of my parents were old enough to read about in the papers when it happened and they are both around today.  Do you think the racists in that mob all just vanished one day?  Has anyone in that mob ever come forward to finger the guilty parties?  No, not in the '60's, the '70's, the '80's, etc.  Millions of Americans who were around then, in those ancient days of yore when racism still roamed the earth, are still around now.  Some to remember it, some to condemn it, some to......

 

How old are you?

Yeah, wow, I'm sure the United States is exactly the same now as it was in 1946. Before my parents were even born.

 

I just said you can't rely on history as proof that racism is a huge problem now and your rebuttal is that the last mass lynching in this country was just 60 FRICKIN YEARS AGO.

 

Email is the perfect example of how much the world can change in just 10 years or so. Makes you wonder how much different things will be in 2016. Makes you understand how little people's attitudes back in 1946 have to do with attitudes right now.

 

BTW, I'm 24.

[Wacka]

Sure would help if we got rid of teh KKK member in the Senate, good ol' Robert Byrd.

[jjamie12]

The days of lynchings are not ancient history but they might as well be.  Turn on the TV and have a look around.

I was in Florida last week on vacation and went skeet shooting with my Father-in-law. He and a group of about 12 guys get together every Thursday for a shooting 'league'. Well, there happened to be another new guy (he was from Fort Pierce, Florida) shooting, as well. As he finished up a round (he shot extremely well), one of the guys felt comfortable enough to say, within earshot of everyone in the group "That's how you shoot them ni@#$rs down in Fort Pierce, in't it!?" Most of the group had a real good laugh at that...

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

I stand corrected, White on __________ racism has been the most troubling, historically, in this country, with the blank representing all the groups, races, etc. that whites have discriminated against, enslaved, killed, lynched, wrongfully imprisoned, etc.  Thanks for pointing that out.

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In other words...European Imperialism has been the most troubling, historically.

 

Just kill all them !@#$in' honkies, that ought to fix everything.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I was in Florida last week on vacation and went skeet shooting with my Father-in-law.  He and a group of about 12 guys get together every Thursday for a shooting 'league'.  Well, there happened to be another new guy (he was from Fort Pierce, Florida) shooting, as well.  As he finished up a round (he shot extremely well), one of the guys felt comfortable enough to say, within earshot of everyone in the group "That's how you shoot them ni@#$rs down in Fort Pierce, in't it!?"  Most of the group had a real good laugh at that...

561473[/snapback]

 

 

My parents were born in the mid 1930's.

 

There is no doubt such acts would exist today if it weren't for the middle part of the 20th Century! "Strange Fruit" would no doubt be hanging from southern trees.

 

This music also began advocating for social change. Songs that promoted social activism were rare before the mid 1960s. One of the earliest of these songs, "Strange Fruit," was sung by the blues singer, Billie Holiday--she first sang it in a New York club in 1938. Though it was popular, Holiday's recording company, Columbia Records, refused to produce the song due to its controversial nature. A small record company picked it up, and it has now been commonly accepted as Holiday's signature song.

 

What year was Emmett Till lynched? The mid 1950's.

 

Jim Crow History

 

Notice the map link.

 

[Mickey]

No, that's not what I said.  How many times in one thread are you going to use the "I know you aren't saying this but here's how it sounds..." argument?  What's the point of talking to you if you're going to go out of your way to purposely twist the meanings of what everyone is saying to what you think it might maybe, kinda sound like?

 

If America is packed to the gills with racists, why do we enjoy so many performers of different colors and backgrounds?  That doesn't make much sense.  That is, unless you're relying on information that's 60 years old and - oh wait....

 

Yeah, wow, I'm sure the United States is exactly the same now as it was in 1946.  Before my parents were even born. 

 

I just said you can't rely on history as proof that racism is a huge problem now and your rebuttal is that the last mass lynching in this country was just 60 FRICKIN YEARS AGO.

 

Email is the perfect example of how much the world can change in just 10 years or so.  Makes you wonder how much different things will be in 2016.  Makes you understand how little people's attitudes back in 1946 have to do with attitudes right now.

 

BTW, I'm 24.

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You said:

 

"I think a lot of black people are brought up to think that they are victims of racism and that they won't be allowed to succeed in America and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Their motivation to stay in school and go to college has to suffer. You tell someone every day of their life that they're worthless and they'll start to believe it. You tell someone every day of their life that everyone else hates them because of their skin and eventually they'll believe that too."

 

Your point seems to be that there is no racism, the problem is that someone is telling blacks that there are racists when there aren't and they are mistakenly believing that. Since you don't think there is racism, then who ever is bringing them "up to think they are victims of racism" is lying or terribly mistaken according to your theory that there is no racism. You know, the theory based on what you see on TV. So...who is telling them or bringing them up to believe that there are racists when, in your view, there are none? Why would it make a difference if the reality is that there is no racism, won't blacks be able to see that despite all these lies they are being fed by whoever is bringing them up?

 

If there is no racism, why can't blacks see that as clearly as you do? Why do they believe it resulting in losing "their motivation to stay in school and go to college"?

Tell me why they aren't able to see what you see?

 

Really, are you seriously offering the presence of black entertainers on your TV dial as proof that there is no racism? That was a joke right? Ever heard of minstrel shows? Even in the worst days of Jim Crow blacks were accepted as entertainers.

 

Plenty of strides against racism have been made and in truth, many of the toughest battles have already been fought and won. However, the idea that there is no racism, coming from a 24 year old boy who thinks the world began when he was born and that his limited observations of people on TV are sufficient to declare an end to the most resilient and ancient of evils is laughable. Stop watching TV and google "modern racism" and do some reading.

 

By the way, you need to sharpen your reading skills anyway. Even though I put it in bold, you still missed that the lynching I referred to was only the last MASS lynching. The last lynching was that of James Byrd in Texas in 1998. Guess his killers hadn't heard the news from your TV that racism was dead.

[Mickey]

In other words...European Imperialism has been the most troubling, historically. 

 

Just kill all them !@#$in' honkies, that ought to fix everything.

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What exactly are you arguing here? I don't get it. You take me to task for leaving out additional victims of white racism and then mock the concern for white racism with this "kill all the honkies" thing.

 

I suspect that the whole point he was making that white on black is not the only type of racism was meant to include black on white racism as a problem. What would you say has been a bigger problem in the US historically, racist whites or racists blacks?

[Mickey]

I was in Florida last week on vacation and went skeet shooting with my Father-in-law.  He and a group of about 12 guys get together every Thursday for a shooting 'league'.  Well, there happened to be another new guy (he was from Fort Pierce, Florida) shooting, as well.  As he finished up a round (he shot extremely well), one of the guys felt comfortable enough to say, within earshot of everyone in the group "That's how you shoot them ni@#$rs down in Fort Pierce, in't it!?"  Most of the group had a real good laugh at that...

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The didn't happen. You must have imagined the whole thing because racism is dead. It no longer exists in America. Apparently the wonder of e-mail and cable TV somehow killed it. Who knew?

[Chilly]

"Hey, I'm a Christian, I'm reading the bible"

 

Name that show.

[olivier in france]

And how many American inner cities have you been in?

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well let's see.... New York, Buffalo, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Philadelphia, DC, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, New Orleans, Nashville,... can i add a few canadians' or is that enough for you?

[olivier in france]

i agree Mickey , never underestimate racism. Racism seems to find a way to come back like a mosquito in a summer night. you think you have killed it ten times but it's back again buzzing in your ears... That is why situations like the ones of the blacks in America and the North african muslims in France are very dangerous for our countries because as long as you have minorities outside of the mainstream society you have the perfect soil for racism to grow (both sides with terrible effects that can go a lot farther than some street riots)

[Johnny Coli]

well let's see.... New York, Buffalo, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, Philadelphia, DC, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, New Orleans, Nashville,... can i add a few canadians' or is that enough for you?

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I live in Boston. Racism is alive and well in this city. From affluent suburban schools pulling out of leagues so they don't have to play inner city schools, to parents sueing school districts to keep from busing inner city kids into their schools. South Boston and parts of Dorchester are extremely unwelcome for black kids to be in at night. Boston still has a racist reputation that comes up alot when FA atheletes are being courted for teams here.

 

People can choose to ignore it. People can choose to pretend its going away. And people can pretend it's all their own fault. But it's there.

[VABills]

I live in Boston.  Racism is alive and well in this city.  From affluent suburban schools pulling out of leagues so they don't have to play inner city schools, to parents sueing school districts to keep from busing inner city kids into their schools.  South Boston and parts of Dorchester are extremely unwelcome for black kids to be in at night. Boston still has a racist reputation that comes up alot when FA atheletes are being courted for teams here.

 

People can choose to ignore it.  People can choose to pretend its going away.  And people can pretend it's all their own fault.  But it's there.

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But Boston is the Mecca of the liberal world. All people are accepted, liberals looks at the world colorblind I thought. I am calling bull sh--. There is noway that such an inclusionary group of people such as NE Liberals would ever treat minorities as 2nd class citizens.

[Johnny Coli]

But Boston is the Mecca of the liberal world.  All people are accepted, liberals looks at the world colorblind I thought.  I am calling bull sh--.  There is noway that such an inclusionary group of people such as NE Liberals would ever treat minorities as 2nd class citizens. 

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Not everyone in Mass is a liberal, as I'm sure not everyone in Texas is a right-wing loon.

[VABills]

Not everyone in Mass is a liberal, as I'm sure not everyone in Texas is a right-wing loon.

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But you would think the majority would squash those few non-conformists.

 

In reality, I go there on occassion, and you know damn well Boston is the home of the hypocrites. Do as I say, not as I do liberals.

 

[OnTheRocks]

Not everyone in Mass is a liberal, as I'm sure not everyone in Texas is a right-wing loon.

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why would you refer to people in Texas as "Right Wing Loons" but people in Mass. as "Liberal" and not "Liberal Loons"? Sounds like a double standard to me.

[cromagnum]

I live in Boston.  Racism is alive and well in this city.  From affluent suburban schools pulling out of leagues so they don't have to play inner city schools, to parents sueing school districts to keep from busing inner city kids into their schools.  South Boston and parts of Dorchester are extremely unwelcome for black kids to be in at night. Boston still has a racist reputation that comes up alot when FA atheletes are being courted for teams here.

 

People can choose to ignore it.  People can choose to pretend its going away.  And people can pretend it's all their own fault.  But it's there.

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In southie and parts of dot, Italians were unwelcome also. Man if you were from dot and were wearing a tee shirt with the irish clover that said dorchester, and walked around southie with it, good chance of coming home with a lumpedup face. Did'nt matter if you were a freckled face mick..It is changeing, look at charlestown, use to be irish working class, but with desireable realestate, they too were unwelcomed, for not enough green.