Boller and Losman

[Mikie2times]

Kyle Boller ...................................................JP losman

6-3 ..............................................................6-2

220..............................................................217

Selected 1st Round 19th Pick..........................Selected 1st Round 22nd Pick

First Year QB Rating 62.4................................First Year QB Rating 64.9

Year 1 Starts- 9.............................................Year 1 Starts-0

Year 2 Starts- 16...........................................Year 2 Starts- 8

Year 3 Starts- 8.............................................Year 3 Starts- Unknown

 

Kyle Boller has looked great so far today, and was excellent last week. We always hear about the light bulb turning on at different stages for QB, and perhaps that is what’s happening for Boller right now. Regardless of whether or not Boller has turned the corner we do know players who have taken that long and then some for the switch to turn on.

 

If Boller has turned the corner it took him until start 32 of his third season to make it happen. This number is relevant because like JP he's a QB who was playing poorly, and approaching make or break status in his 3rd year. He is also a player with many other similar measurables to JP, The main difference is JP will be approaching make or break status his third year with only 8 starts under his belt, while Boller had 25.

 

The fact that JP hasn't started many games wouldn't be such a big deal if he had more time to prove himself, and that to me is a problem the Bills management and coaching created. Buffalo decided to draft a QB in the 1st round, they weren't forced into doing so. When you do that you can't constantly flirt with a veteran every five seconds because a veteran will probably outplay the green Rookie, and from then on many of the issues we have seen are a likely conclusion.

 

Personally I don’t agree with drafting first round QB’s unless he’s a once a decade type player. It’s a costly investment that is unsuccessful more often then not, and almost always comes at the expense of a few bad seasons. Still if that’s the path you choose you must do what Baltimore has done with Boller, otherwise you pretty much guarantee the pick will be wasted. The only exception I could see is if this team was truly a contender, which is exactly how the Bills tried to spin it off.

[BB2004]

Kyle Boller ...................................................JP losman

6-3 ..............................................................6-2

220..............................................................217

Selected 1st Round 19th Pick..........................Selected 1st Round 22nd Pick

First Year QB Rating 62.4................................First Year QB Rating 64.9

Year 1 Starts- 9.............................................Year 1 Starts-0

Year 2 Starts- 16...........................................Year 2 Starts- 8

Year 3 Starts- 8.............................................Year 3 Starts- Unknown

 

Kyle Boller has looked great so far today, and was excellent last week. We always hear about the light bulb turning on at different stages for QB, and perhaps that is what’s happening for Boller right now. Regardless of whether or not Boller has turned the corner  we do know players who have taken that long and then some for the switch to turn on.

 

If Boller has turned the corner it took him until start 32 of his third season to make it happen. This number is relevant because like JP he's a QB who was playing poorly, and approaching make or break status in his 3rd year. He is also a player with many other similar measurables to JP, The main difference is JP will be approaching make or break status his third year with only 8 starts under his belt, while Boller had 25.

 

The fact that JP hasn't started many games wouldn't be such a big deal if he had more time to prove himself, and that to me is a problem the Bills management and coaching created. Buffalo decided to draft a QB in the 1st round, they weren't forced into doing so. When you do that you can't constantly flirt with a veteran every five seconds because a veteran will probably outplay the green Rookie, and from then on many of the issues we have seen are a likely conclusion.

 

Personally I don’t agree with drafting first round QB’s unless he’s a once a decade type player. It’s a costly investment that is unsuccessful more often then not, and almost always comes at the expense of a few bad seasons. Still if that’s the path you choose you must do what Baltimore has done with Boller, otherwise you pretty much guarantee the pick will be wasted. The only exception I could see is if this team was truly a contender, which is exactly how the Bills tried to spin it off.

542550[/snapback]

 

You're right Boller was great today. He converted several third and longs today. If he plays that way next season the Ravens will be a playoff team.

[Johnny]

really thought the ravens would have competed for a playoff spot if he didnt get hurt...who's to know now..........but sure seems silly that Fassel and Billick never openend the playbook till these last two games...and yes Boller is looking marvelous, absolutely marvelous

 

as far as JP...has shown flashes but they just won't play him.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

Excellent post. You get it.

 

Yes, I can see TD giving Holcomb a contract extension with a good bonus to lead the '06 team. JP will not be an adequate backup due to his inexperience so maybe he can get enough pre-season reps to stir interest from another club. We trade him for a 3rd round pick and let some other club try to develope him. Holcomb manages enough games well to win us 8 -10 games in '06, but a few less in '07. So by 2008 we run Holcomb out of town, draft another hot-shot who then loses the starting job to a Kitner brother or Kerry Collins.

[zow2]

Yes, Boller "gets it" all of a sudden,,,,,but please fans, don't come here and spout off how BIlls management "blew it" by not starting JP the whole year. Boller was shown the bench many times over his 3 years due to poor play or some myterious injury. Marvin Lewis is on record as saying that if Carson Palmer was ineffective early in his 1st starting year that he would have inserted Kitna back in the lineup in a heartbeat. Bottom line is that coaches play the game to win. If the backup has a better shot than the young guy than that's what they do. If JP is good he will overcome this stuff and show some consistency and he will win the starting job by competition next season. Just like Boller or Rich Gannon, etc... it might take him several years to really get it.

[Albany,n.y.]

Yes, Boller "gets it" all of a sudden,,,,,but please fans, don't come here and spout off how BIlls management "blew it" by not starting JP the whole year.  Boller was shown the bench many times over his 3 years due to poor play or some myterious injury.  Marvin Lewis is on record as saying that if Carson Palmer was ineffective early in his 1st starting year that he would have inserted Kitna back in the lineup in a heartbeat.  Bottom line is that coaches play the game to win.  If the backup has a better shot than the young guy than that's what they do.  If JP is good he will overcome this stuff and show some consistency and he will win the starting job by competition next season.  Just like Boller or Rich Gannon, etc... it might take him several years to really get it.

542622[/snapback]

Palmer was just about as bad as JP in his 1st 4 starts last year, Lewis kept him in and the benefits are obvious this season. Pulling JP after 4 games & letting him sit now, especially with the record we have is sheer stupidity by a coach who is morphing into a combination of Hank Bullough and Wade Phillips.

Terrance McGee won the game for the Bills on Sunday. If JP had started, there's a good chance we would have won and maybe today we'd be comparing JP to Boller as 2 QBs that the light went on for. In JP's last game the team took away Eric Moulds and made JP's failure against NE a lot easier. If Mularkey was sent here by another team to wreck JP's career, he couldn't be doing a better job.

[Bill from NYC]

Palmer was just about as bad as JP in his 1st 4 starts last year, Lewis kept him in and the benefits are obvious this season.  Pulling JP after 4 games & letting him sit now, especially with the record we have is sheer stupidity by a coach who is morphing into a combination of Hank Bullough and Wade Phillips.

Terrance McGee won the game for the Bills on Sunday.  If JP had started, there's a good chance we would have won and maybe today we'd be comparing JP to Boller as 2 QBs that the light went on for.  In JP's last game the team took away Eric Moulds and made JP's failure against NE a lot easier.  If Mularkey was sent here by another team to wreck JP's career, he couldn't be doing a better job.

542627[/snapback]

 

Harv, can we not blame it ALL on MM wrt the poor showing (as of now) of JP?

In 2 seasons, JP was injured twice causing him to miss games.

Carson was brought to a team with a bad defense and a quickly improving offense at almost every position. They were not expected to win. JP was brought to the Bills at a time when QB was absolutely NOT their most serious concern. Then, he was elevated to starter (after having proven absolutely nothing) because TD's team lost to the scrubs of TD's ex-team.

 

JP was pulled after 4 games because he played poorly to an unthinkable extreme.

The Bills, despite the pre-season hype and heart warming stories about JP and Wyche were 1-3, and this was a supposedly playoff bound team.

I guess that my point is that it is hard for me to blame MM for this mess. He has made mistakes, but TD is the one who brought him into town as a puppet.

 

I think that TD deserves the bulk of the blame for the current state of affairs at OBD due to his mistakes, ego, and poor drafts.

As is JP, MM is still learning. Imo, TD has run out of excuses.

[stuckincincy]

Marvin Lewis is on record as saying that if Carson Palmer was ineffective early in his 1st starting year that he would have inserted Kitna back in the lineup in a heartbeat. 

542622[/snapback]

 

That's the first I've heard of that. It would be quite outside Lewis' character.

 

There was certainly fan grousing - after Kitna's good '03 season.

 

Palmer sat out his 1st year. Not a single snap. He was a #1 choice, and paid a lot of bucks. #1 overall picks do not ride the bench, at least not in owner Brown's mind (or whatever it's called).

[Buckeye Eric]

Bollar has one more season than JP. Up until last week there were questions about if Bollar will be around next year.

 

One simply can not compare them with a snapshot taken today.

[zow2]

Palmer was just about as bad as JP in his 1st 4 starts last year, Lewis kept him in and the benefits are obvious this season.  Pulling JP after 4 games & letting him sit now, especially with the record we have is sheer stupidity by a coach who is morphing into a combination of Hank Bullough and Wade Phillips.

Terrance McGee won the game for the Bills on Sunday.  If JP had started, there's a good chance we would have won and maybe today we'd be comparing JP to Boller as 2 QBs that the light went on for.  In JP's last game the team took away Eric Moulds and made JP's failure against NE a lot easier.  If Mularkey was sent here by another team to wreck JP's career, he couldn't be doing a better job.

542627[/snapback]

 

Dude, Palmer showed alot more potential (accuracy, decision making, etc...) in his first year than JP has shown, c'mon now. McGee won the game but Holcomb had a very nice showing and even the JP nation has to admit that. I'm sorry, but the Bills would not have won that game with JP at the helm. It's kinda' sad, but even the post game quotes from the team made it sound like they believe in Holcomb and he is a natural leader, blah, blah, blah.....they didn't have to spell it out that they don't believe in JP just yet. Again, i hope JP plays against the Jets and gets more experience but it might take him 2, 3 or 4 years to become a legit starter and the Bills cannot flounder arounbd and lose games during that time (no team can afford that).

[Chilly]

A post comparing Losman to... Boller? What have we come to.

[dave mcbride]

A post comparing Losman to... Boller?  What have we come to.

542647[/snapback]

granted, boller has played well the last 2 games (although he looks like he's about to launch a shotput every times he passes the ball). however, both games were at home and one of those games was against probably one of the two least talented teams in the league, green bay. the other was against minnesota, who is, shall we say, prone to give up lots of yards. for most of this year and his career, he's looked terrible. that said, maybe the light is going on.

[Adam]

Lossman his missed starts due to injury. He will be given as long as it takes, and we wont complain

[Mikie2times]

Bottom line is that coaches play the game to win.  If the backup has a better shot than the young guy than that's what they do. 

542622[/snapback]

 

Really? Teams throw high picks with no experience in all the time over veterans. See Kitna/Palmer, Warner/Manning etc. We would see several more examples but not every team has a quality veteran to go with the 1st round QB.

 

In 2 seasons, JP was injured twice causing him to miss games.

 

JP was brought to the Bills at a time when QB was absolutely NOT their most serious concern. Then, he was elevated to starter (after having proven absolutely nothing) because TD's team lost to the scrubs of TD's ex-team.

 

JP was pulled after 4 games because he played poorly to an unthinkable extreme.

The Bills, despite the pre-season hype and heart warming stories about JP and Wyche were 1-3, and this was a supposedly playoff bound team.

 

Again the amount of starts wouldn't be so troubling if he wasn't facing make or break status, a problem I contend MM and TD created. You can't play an injured QB, but if JP is healthy enough to play he needs to be playing.

 

Part of the original problem with JP's implementation is what you pointed out. He was elevated to starter without the roster even being set. To even further complicate things this occurred at a time the locker room could have been divided on Drew Bledsoe’s release.

 

The Bills probably had some veterans questioning JP Losman's credentials, and then he starts off slow. Gee a first year QB starting off slow, who would have thought that could happen? So the Bills knee jerk it and yank Losman, which is an action that would only seem to fuel the questioning of JP Losman by the players. As a young QB that support is what you need the most, and JP Losman doesn’t seem to be getting it the same way Kelly Holcomb is. All for what? So Kelly Holcomb might be able to keep the brass from losing their jobs? How does that benefit the franchise, or the Bills likelihood of finding the first QB since Kelly worth a crap?

 

 

 

Bollar has one more season than JP. Up until last week there were questions about if Bollar will be around next year.

 

One simply can not compare them with a snapshot taken today.

542637[/snapback]

 

The point is Boller was under the gun entering his third year as a qb with 25 starts under his belt. Losman will enter the same situation with 8 starts under his belt. Who has a better chance at turning it around?