Interesting Stats

[Stussy109]

PASS YARDS

Player G Att Cmp Pct Tot /Att /G TD TD% Int Int% Sack Rat

J.P. Losman 9 228 113 49.6 1340 5.9 148.9 8 3.5 8 3.5 25 64.9

Kelly Holcomb 9 193 132 68.4 1325 6.9 147.2 8 4.1 4 2.1 15 92.9

 

Notice the difference in pass completion percentage/yards per completion, sacks, and rating. Kelly Holcomb seems to be getting it done. This info contradicted the common belief in scrambling ability being able to reduce sacks and a strong arm needed for big plays.

 

I've been a JP supporter the whole year, however Holcomb impressed me yesterday. He has me wondering how we would have done if he had been in all season?

[34-78-83]

PASS YARDS 

Player            G Att Cmp Pct      Tot /Att /G    TD TD% Int Int% Sack Rat

J.P. Losman    9 228 113 49.6  1340 5.9 148.9  8  3.5    8  3.5    25  64.9

Kelly Holcomb 9 193 132 68.4  1325 6.9 147.2  8  4.1    4  2.1    15  92.9

 

Notice the difference in pass completion percentage/yards per completion, sacks, and rating.  Kelly Holcomb seems to be getting it done.  This info contradicted the common belief in scrambling ability being able to reduce sacks and a strong arm needed for big plays.

 

I've been a JP supporter the whole year, however Holcomb impressed me yesterday.  He has me wondering how we would have done if he had been in all season?

542268[/snapback]

 

His biggest advantage right now over JP is his ability to find and utilize the checkdown man. This will change, but for now it's the major difference between the two to me.

[Kelly the Dog]

PASS YARDS 

Player            G Att Cmp Pct      Tot /Att /G    TD TD% Int Int% Sack Rat

J.P. Losman    9 228 113 49.6  1340 5.9 148.9  8  3.5    8  3.5    25  64.9

Kelly Holcomb 9 193 132 68.4  1325 6.9 147.2  8  4.1    4  2.1    15  92.9

 

Notice the difference in pass completion percentage/yards per completion, sacks, and rating.  Kelly Holcomb seems to be getting it done.  This info contradicted the common belief in scrambling ability being able to reduce sacks and a strong arm needed for big plays.

 

I've been a JP supporter the whole year, however Holcomb impressed me yesterday.  He has me wondering how we would have done if he had been in all season?

542268[/snapback]

The biggest difference yesterday was that Holcomb had time to throw. And as I said in another thread, I do not want to take away from Holcomb's very good game yesterday and he is a valuable player on virtually any team. I'm very glad we have him. But his completion percentage this year and over his career is grossly exaggerated because he is very, very, very content to throw a 3 yard completion on 3rd and 7, an 8 yard completion on 3rd and 11, a 5 yard completion on 4th and 9 that other quarterbacks will go for the first down on. This happens a few times a game and gets his completion percentage and quarterback rating way up and is often a distorted stat.

[mcjeff215]

The biggest difference yesterday was that Holcomb had time to throw. And as I said in another thread, I do not want to take away from Holcomb's very good game yesterday and he is a valuable player on virtually any team. I'm very glad we have him. But his completion percentage this year and over his career is grossly exaggerated because he is very, very, very content to throw a 3 yard completion on 3rd and 7, an 8 yard completion on 3rd and 11, a 5 yard completion on 4th and 9 that other quarterbacks will go for the first down on. This happens a few times a game and gets his completion percentage and quarterback rating way up and is often a distorted stat.

542278[/snapback]

 

With the receiver corps we have, that's preferable to hanging back in the pocket waiting too long for the 15 yard to open up in a lot of cases, no? Moulds el al. should have the speed to pick up additional yards post-catch.

[justnzane]

The biggest difference yesterday was that Holcomb had time to throw. And as I said in another thread, I do not want to take away from Holcomb's very good game yesterday and he is a valuable player on virtually any team. I'm very glad we have him. But his completion percentage this year and over his career is grossly exaggerated because he is very, very, very content to throw a 3 yard completion on 3rd and 7, an 8 yard completion on 3rd and 11, a 5 yard completion on 4th and 9 that other quarterbacks will go for the first down on. This happens a few times a game and gets his completion percentage and quarterback rating way up and is often a distorted stat.

542278[/snapback]

great point KTFABD. i think that is the big flaw in holcombs style of play as it is too conservative.

[Kelly the Dog]

With the receiver corps we have, that's preferable to hanging back in the pocket waiting too long for the 15 yard to open up in a lot of cases, no?  Moulds el al. should have the speed to pick up additional yards post-catch.

542282[/snapback]

That's not really what I am talking about. It's surely not important to go downfield all the time, or past the first down marker all the time, especially if it is well downfield. What Holcomb does very often, infuriatingly often, is throw to a back or a receiver well short of the first down while he is covered, with virtually zero chance of picking up the first down. Yesterday, he was very lucky one play when Roscoe made an extraordinary move to get 28 yards and a first down. But the vast, vast majority of the time, Holcomb, because he cannot run, and because he has no arm strength, and because he is conservative, and because he is what some people would call gutless (as in trying to make a play) will check down quickly and basically just cement the fact we're punting. JP on that same play, will try to make a play. It might get an incompletion and his QB rating and compeltion percentage suffers. But it gives the team the chance to keep the ball. Holcomb will almost always get his 3, 5, 7 yard completion and the team will punt.

[Tortured Soul]

PASS YARDS 

Player            G Att Cmp Pct      Tot /Att /G    TD TD% Int Int% Sack Rat

J.P. Losman    9 228 113 49.6  1340 5.9 148.9  8  3.5    8  3.5    25  64.9

Kelly Holcomb 9 193 132 68.4  1325 6.9 147.2  8  4.1    4  2.1    15  92.9

 

Notice the difference in pass completion percentage/yards per completion, sacks, and rating.  Kelly Holcomb seems to be getting it done.  This info contradicted the common belief in scrambling ability being able to reduce sacks and a strong arm needed for big plays.

 

I've been a JP supporter the whole year, however Holcomb impressed me yesterday.  He has me wondering how we would have done if he had been in all season?

542268[/snapback]

Re: conventional wisdom on sacks. I disagree with the theory. Running quarterbacks, most notably Vick, have high sack numbers because of the times they scramble and get caught behind the line for a sack when it really should be counted as a run for a loss. Also, if a quarterback thinks he can always run away, he will be more likely to hold onto the ball longer.

 

That's not really what I am talking about. It's surely not important to go downfield all the time, or past the first down marker all the time, especially if it is well downfield. What Holcomb does very often, infuriatingly often, is throw to a back or a receiver well short of the first down while he is covered, with virtually zero chance of picking up the first down. Yesterday, he was very lucky one play when Roscoe made an extraordinary move to get 28 yards and a first down. But the vast, vast majority of the time, Holcomb, because he cannot run, and because he has no arm strength, and because he is conservative, and because he is what some people would call gutless (as in trying to make a play) will check down quickly and basically just cement the fact we're punting. JP on that same play, will try to make a play. It might get an incompletion and his QB rating and compeltion percentage suffers. But it gives the team the chance to keep the ball. Holcomb will almost always get his 3, 5, 7 yard completion and the team will punt.

542293[/snapback]

I generally agree with you, but it's important to remember that an offense designed for Losman is very different than an offense designed for Holcomb. Holcomb plays a West-Coast style, not too dependent on the running game. Holcomb has hardly any receiving threat out of the backfield and absolutely no tight end threat. So, I'm willing to cut him some slack for playing his game in Losman's offense.

 

And about Roscoe, we drafted a midget with our first pick because moves like that are supposed to be routine.

[Kelly the Dog]

I generally agree with you, but it's important to remember that an offense designed for Losman is very different than an offense designed for Holcomb.  Holcomb plays a West-Coast style, not too dependent on the running game.  Holcomb has hardly any receiving threat out of the backfield and absolutely no tight end threat.  So, I'm willing to cut him some slack for playing his game in Losman's offense. 

 

542299[/snapback]

In theory, that may be true. In reality, that is not what happened at all. There are 500 plays in the playbook. The Bills can run any kind of offense that they want. While they said publicly they were going to be a conservative power offense, which is exactly what Holcomb could play well in, they called plays for JP that were anything but that. They didn't design it to fits JPs strengths at all, especially early. This offense fits Holcomb fine, bunching up receivers, a lot of short routes, quick slants and crosses. And then taking your shots downfield when the defense allows it.

[KOKBILLS]

His biggest advantage right now over JP is his ability to find and utilize the checkdown man. This will change, but for now it's the major difference between the two to me.

542277[/snapback]

 

Well...How about KH's biggest advantage over JP is as simple as actually thowing the Ball where it can be caught? I mean...35 less attempts and 19 more Completions is quite the telling Stat...Granted KH finds the open receiver, but he hits him... and that generally means keeping the chains moving a bit more often...I think if you go back and look at a lot of the Film on JP, or KH for that matter, it's not necessarily that the receiver is open or covered, rather it's where the Ball is thrown...Many of JP's incompletions...many of them...were catchable Balls, but they would be TOUGH catches...KH put the Ball where it should be a lot more consistantly...

 

So,when you can't Run the Ball worth a...QB accuracy seems to make a HUGE difference in the end...I'll tell you this much, I think JP will impove...but without a good Running Game I just don't know if JP can make that next step in 2006...Because without the Running Game, the next step is a BIG one for JP...

[Tortured Soul]

In theory, that may be true. In reality, that is not what happened at all. There are 500 plays in the playbook. The Bills can run any kind of offense that they want. While they said publicly they were going to be a conservative power offense, which is exactly what Holcomb could play well in, they called plays for JP that were anything but that. They didn't design it to fits JPs strengths at all, especially early. This offense fits Holcomb fine, bunching up receivers, a lot of short routes, quick slants and crosses. And then taking your shots downfield when the defense allows it.

542303[/snapback]

I think a lot more of the offense is designed for outs and curls than slants and crosses, not as high-percentage throws. I also think Holcomb would do better in an offense that depends on rhythm, while this one will give the ball more to the runnning back to establish the run. Holcomb does not fit a conservative power offense well. He fits a west coast offense. The advantage of the west coast offense is that short passes that start as throws on five yards downfield become 10 and 15 yards downfiled as the game progresses without anyone really noticing. That's not the same as taking shots downfield.

[Kelly the Dog]

I think a lot more of the offense is designed for outs and curls than slants and crosses, not as high-percentage throws.  I also think Holcomb would do better in an offense that depends on rhythm, while this one will give the ball more to the runnning back to establish the run.  Holcomb does not fit a conservative power offense well.  He fits a west coast offense.  The advantage of the west coast offense is that short passes that start as throws on five yards downfield become 10 and 15 yards downfiled as the game progresses without anyone really noticing.  That's not the same as taking shots downfield.

542332[/snapback]

That's kind of my point. We never really do establish the run. We come out throwing every single game, and we did it last year, too. We never run a power offense. When KH is in, we seem to call plays to his strengths, which is fine.

[Tortured Soul]

I guess we're not disagreeing too much. My point basically is that not every short passing game is the same. There's the kind we do and there's the kind that suits Holcomb.

[Johnny]

do you guys really think Losman will play next season....cause i just got my brand new Holcomb jersey for christmas