scurdog1 Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 Far from excellent. One true starter, one overrated player an oft injured player that has yet to play 16 games in a season, banged up back and a returner only. How about 2000????? 2001 was also with TD, so you are saying he had a good draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 Far from excellent. One true starter, one overrated player an oft injured player that has yet to play 16 games in a season, banged up back and a returner only. How about 2000????? 2001 was also with TD, so you are saying he had a good draft? The 2000 draft was an all-time bust. However the 2001 draft was the best draft under TD and one of the better ones the Bills have had in a decade and a half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 The Bills had an excellent draft in 2001. They got Clements, Schobel, Jennings, Edwards and Henry. Hell throw in Jimmy Williams who's had a decent career with SF. That was by far the best draft of the 2000's. 542294[/snapback] Excellent draft by what standards, Jennings is hurt all the time and over paid, Edwards, hurt, Henry good years with the Bills and nothing with the titans. Schobel and Nate are decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scurdog1 Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 Look at his last 2 drafts that's what he did. Who is left on the team and the league for that matter. 2000 with JB and 2001 before Modrak got here. 542292[/snapback] Donahoe's first draft, while Adams was still here is the best the team has had in a long time. Clements, Schobel, Henry, Jonas Jennings. I loved that draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 Those of you who don't know who/what I am talking about are true "newbies." We welcome ALL Bills fans, of course -- "new" and "old." But, we "oldtimers" remember the Glory Days and want them BACK!!!!! Bringing Adams back would be one of the first steps. Check back on Monday for a little enlightenment! 542042[/snapback] Yet another Christmas present. That's great news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 The guy is frigging 80, what the hell do you want from that old man move on that's old history. 542270[/snapback] He's 72 and he has more football knowledge in his sweatsocks than 95% of this MB have in their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 I am not going to jump on that band wagon, look at the last couple drafts when he was in charge before losing the power struggle and tell where those guys are now. 542163[/snapback] Don't let the door hit ya.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scurdog1 Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 Hear your wind fury but the facts don't lie. do some research instead of blowing hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 Donahoe's first draft, while Adams was still here is the best the team has had in a long time. Clements, Schobel, Henry, Jonas Jennings. I loved that draft. 542323[/snapback] It is interesting is it not? Because whatever anyone thinks to the contrary, that was definitely TD's best Draft as Bills GM...Not saying that TD has surrounded himself with yes Men...But do the results of that Draft not clearly show what is possible when differing outlooks than those exclusively derived from people TD hired are considered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 Hear your wind fury but the facts don't lie. do some research instead of blowing hard. 542339[/snapback] Research is done, and you are really stretching to say that 2001 draft wasn't a good one, as it produced 4 solid starters, plus a quality backup, and decent contributions from the others (not just practice squad fodder). To me, the key to the draft is to see how many players selected would start on any other NFL team, and not just a "weak" Bills roster. All four solid starters from that draft could have and still can start on any other NFL club. Can you say the same about other drafts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 Hear your wind fury but the facts don't lie. do some research instead of blowing hard. 542339[/snapback] Merry Christmas: 2000 Draft. Not great, but not rated a dog at the time by most observers. 2001 Draft. A very good draft, regardless of what spin you want to put on it. Cincy had a great draft as well. BTW, Tom Modrak was hired in June of 2001, so he would not have had input on the 2001 draft. This was DA's swan song and it will be great if he comes back on board in some capacity for the all-important 2006 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scurdog1 Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 2000 - Not great. Nice try to spin. It was terrible!!!!! Look at the picks, who cares what was said at the time of the picks. Look at the on field results, that's all that matters. 2001 - 4 solid starters. I see 2 and 2 more that are spot starters when they are healthy and neither of them have been healthy a full season and a returner only, not even a back up. TH couldn't start here of where he was traded so there goes your theory on that. I don't see anything 'very good' about that. If that's a swan song then we are in big trouble if he comes back for 2006. We will be in the same spot in 5 years from now. And I know when TM was hired, that's why I was saying look at DA's last 2 drafts. Learn to read first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 2000 - Not great. Nice try to spin. It was terrible!!!!! Look at the picks, who cares what was said at the time of the picks. Look at the on field results, that's all that matters. 542371[/snapback] Hindsight's 20-20. Yes, it probably was the worst draft of the Butler-Adams era, but its real easy to be a critic after the fact and ignore the 8+ years of solid (if not 2-3 best overall) picking the Bills did prior to 2000. Take a look at what other teams did that year as well. The Jets and the Bears had good crops, but there is a lot of "blahs" everywhere. And I challenge you to look at the 2001 draft team-by-team and tell me who, other than Cincy, had a better one than the Bills. You seem awfully defensive for someone who called me out to do some research. Who are you, Tom Modrak's son? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scurdog1 Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 Yeah, I must be. All I'm saying is that you can't go back and bringing DA back would be an even bigger mistake. The point of it all was that he is WAY up there in age and in his last years the game had obviously passed him by in the way of what talent is playing, so we need to move forward and look to the next Polian type to make decisions that will improve the team. Use the Patsy's as an example, they have a very young staff but yet they bring in talent with every pick that they can use to win games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 The point of it all was that he is WAY up there in age and in his last years the game had obviously passed him by in the way of what talent is playing. 542380[/snapback] Who had a better draft than Cincy and the Bills in 2001? DA at 72 is still plenty valuable as a resource/consultant. I doubt he'd be traveling much, but he could really teach this scouting staff (which is pretty green, BTW) a few things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scurdog1 Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 Again you are assuming that he is willing and able to still do it. There is a reason that he was not retained or didn't want to stay and maybe the fact that he was in a diminished role was the reason, so why would he come back in a diminished capacity. Teams with better drafts than Bufflalo in 2001: San Diego, Carolina, Baltimore, Atlanta just to name a few. All of buffalo's picks that are still playing were in the first day all the second day picks but one or not even IN the NFL now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 Again you are assuming that he is willing and able to still do it. There is a reason that he was not retained or didn't want to stay and maybe the fact that he was in a diminished role was the reason, so why would he come back in a diminished capacity. Okay...so if we're saying 2001 was TD's best draft, and that was WITH Adams... And I'm sure if Adams' daugher (BillsBabe) posts a thread saying "Bring Dwight Adams BACK!" then it stands to reason she's talked with dad and he DOES want to come back. Teams with better drafts than Bufflalo in 2001:San Diego, Carolina, Baltimore, Atlanta just to name a few. All of buffalo's picks that are still playing were in the first day all the second day picks but one or not even IN the NFL now. Okay let's see the players picked by those teams in that draft. I'm going to need some proof rather than just taking your word. Sorry that I don't trust you. I don't trust anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 2000 - Not great. Nice try to spin. It was terrible!!!!! Look at the picks, who cares what was said at the time of the picks. Look at the on field results, that's all that matters. 2001 - 4 solid starters. I see 2 and 2 more that are spot starters when they are healthy and neither of them have been healthy a full season and a returner only, not even a back up. TH couldn't start here of where he was traded so there goes your theory on that. I don't see anything 'very good' about that. If that's a swan song then we are in big trouble if he comes back for 2006. We will be in the same spot in 5 years from now. And I know when TM was hired, that's why I was saying look at DA's last 2 drafts. Learn to read first. 542371[/snapback] you actually need to look at the actual context of 2000. the bills drafted for need that year, which given the roster at that particular time was the right thing to do. the guy they really wanted was ahmad plummer at cb, but unfortunately SF drafted him right before the bills, and the bills were stuck drafting on hope when they took flowers. in the second round, they coveted mike brown and deon grant (both safeties), but chicago took brown in the high 30s and carolina took grant immediately before the bills picked. the bills were left holding the bag with one of the last draftable safeties in that draft, travares tillman. he wasn't their first choice, but they needed a safety badly so they took him. i can't blame them, but obviously it didn't work out. by the way, name me a good drafter who has a long track record who has not had at least one awful draft. it happens to all of them, from ron wolf to bobby beatherd to butler to polian (rae carruth, anyone?) to donohoe. basically, look at the context and have actual, real expectations as opposed to pie in the sky ones where a drafter has 4 or 5 hits every year. p.s. your claim that the 01 draft was only decent is beyond the pale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scurdog1 Posted December 25, 2005 Share Posted December 25, 2005 How do you know those are the players he wanted and he didn't actually draft the players he did want. Were you in the draft room looking at the board and listening to the conversations. That is a HUGE assumption on your part. I still am waiting to see how you are saying that 2001 was such a good draft. Look at the stats and where the players are now and tell me how that was a great draft. 1 player out of 6 in the second day is still in the LEAGUE, ONE!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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