TD's Draft Choices?

[34-78-83]

Back to the Johnson Flutie thing...

 

For all of the speculation that we have that TD is a control freak, I really do think that this particular decision was all GW. It would have been perfectly in keeping for GW to have felt that he ALONE could take this talented but fragile young QB and mold him into being a superstar. He had recruited Mike Shepard, Holmgren's QB coach to take over as GM -- and he was convinced that RJ would thrive in the West Coast offense.

 

TD, meanwhile, had just come from ESPN, where as an analyst when asked about the QB situation in Buffalo, he cited Flutie's record as a starter and asked "What's the question?"

 

I think GW sold TD on the point that past injuries had made RJ something of an unknown commodity, while Flutie's age provided lesser upside. GW went through the motions of talking to the players in the clubhouse about their opinions -- but his decision was clearly made up.

Sadly it was this arrogance that marked GW's career in Buffalo, and I am sure he is feeding off of this "Defensive genius" stuff we keep hearing out of Washington.

 

All of which is to say... when making a list for the prosecution regarding TD's failures in Buffalo, I'd pass on this particular allegation.

540101[/snapback]

 

Wow, you're on a roll today. Another great post

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I'd be very surprised that it's chummy-chummy. I think TD has put the fear of God into MM, that if he even thinks about ever publicly questioning him, he'll be sleeeping with the fish. Everyone comments how MM sounds alot like GW these days. Wouldn't be surprised if its cause TD spanks him every time he speaks the truth in any way.

 

Those are some solid drafts with Pittsburgh.  The difference being Cowher is a hell of a coach and those draft picks developed under a winning philosophy.  I still think Donahoe and Mularkey should be given another year.  I would like to see Mularkey start to question Donahoe a little more publicly.  The perception that they are too chummy-chummy doesn't sit well.  I think the fans would like to see that the Coach and GM are as pissed off about this season as the fans.

540052[/snapback]

[2003Contenders]

Wow, you're on a roll today. Another great post 

540104[/snapback]

 

 

Thank you, sir!

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Those are solid drafts? Look just like Buffalos to me. Drafts with one good player coming out of each. Hines Ward was probably his best pickup ever.

540071[/snapback]

 

Are you serious? Those were some great drafts--a lot of all-pro players and starters for some great Steelers teams. I would include the following players as great picks (particularly in light of where they were chosen in the draft):

 

Joey Porter

Aaron Smith

Kris Brown

Alan Faneca

Hines Ward

Deshea Townsend

Chad Scott

Mike Vrabel

Jamain Stephens

Earl Holmes

Orpheus Roye

Carlos Emmons

Mark Bruener

Kordell Stewart

Brenden Stai

Oliver Gibson

Lethon Flowers

Charles Johnson

Brentson Buckner

Jason Gildon

Bam Morris

Jim Miller

Deon Figures

Chad Brown

Willie Williams

Jeff Zgonina

Alex Van Pelt

Leon Searcy

Levon Kirkland

Joel Steed

Darren Perry

[Alaska Darin]

Are you serious? Those were some great drafts--a lot of all-pro players and starters for some great Steelers teams. I would include the following players as great picks (particularly in light of where they were chosen in the draft):

 

Joey Porter

Aaron Smith

Kris Brown

Alan Faneca

Hines Ward

Deshea Townsend

Chad Scott

Mike Vrabel

Jamain Stephens

Earl Holmes

Orpheus Roye

Carlos Emmons

Mark Bruener

Kordell Stewart

Brenden Stai 

Oliver Gibson

Lethon Flowers

Charles Johnson

Brentson Buckner

Jason Gildon

Bam Morris

Jim Miller

Deon Figures

Chad Brown

Willie Williams

Jeff Zgonina

Alex Van Pelt 

Leon Searcy

Levon Kirkland

Joel Steed 

Darren Perry

540113[/snapback]

Well, in fairness his name is "Billsjunkie" not "football junkie".

[Frez]

Are you serious? Those were some great drafts--a lot of all-pro players and starters for some great Steelers teams. I would include the following players as great picks (particularly in light of where they were chosen in the draft):

 

Joey Porter

Aaron Smith

Kris Brown

Alan Faneca

Hines Ward

Deshea Townsend

Chad Scott

Mike Vrabel

Jamain Stephens

Earl Holmes

Orpheus Roye

Carlos Emmons

Mark Bruener

Kordell Stewart

Brenden Stai 

Oliver Gibson

Lethon Flowers

Charles Johnson

Brentson Buckner

Jason Gildon

Bam Morris

Jim Miller

Deon Figures

Chad Brown

Willie Williams

Jeff Zgonina

Alex Van Pelt 

Leon Searcy

Levon Kirkland

Joel Steed 

Darren Perry

540113[/snapback]

 

 

 

Jamain Stephens ?

 

Now that's some funny sh-- right there!

[GG]

Chris's brother?

540054[/snapback]

 

Wow, I can't believe I totally missed that.

 

This just kills me - TD must have loved the high motor on Chris, after the stellar career his brother had in Pittsburgh. The best pickup of a brother tandem since Cleveland picked Mike Junkin after the stellar LB career of brother Trey in Buffalo.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Jamain Stephens ?

 

Now that's some funny sh-- right there!

540147[/snapback]

 

You're right; my bad. He wasn't supposed to be on that list. He belongs on the list of TD's biggest busts.

[Albany,n.y.]

Back to the Johnson Flutie thing...

 

For all of the speculation that we have that TD is a control freak, I really do think that this particular decision was all GW. It would have been perfectly in keeping for GW to have felt that he ALONE could take this talented but fragile young QB and mold him into being a superstar. He had recruited Mike Shepard, Holmgren's QB coach to take over as GM -- and he was convinced that RJ would thrive in the West Coast offense.

 

TD, meanwhile, had just come from ESPN, where as an analyst when asked about the QB situation in Buffalo, he cited Flutie's record as a starter and asked "What's the question?"

 

I think GW sold TD on the point that past injuries had made RJ something of an unknown commodity, while Flutie's age provided lesser upside. GW went through the motions of talking to the players in the clubhouse about their opinions -- but his decision was clearly made up.

Sadly it was this arrogance that marked GW's career in Buffalo, and I am sure he is feeding off of this "Defensive genius" stuff we keep hearing out of Washington.

 

All of which is to say... when making a list for the prosecution regarding TD's failures in Buffalo, I'd pass on this particular allegation.

540101[/snapback]

The rumor I heard was that Flutie & Johnson both were brought in to interview. Flutie basically said he'd run the offense that GW was installing, but if it didn't work he was going to do what he usually does & not stick with GW's offense. GW couldn't have a QB who would question his authority if his O was less than successful & the team chose Johnson as a result.

[JDG]

Those are solid drafts?

 

Yes.

[Frez]

Yes.

540393[/snapback]

 

 

Solid coaching if you ask me. Alot of those players went to other teams and turned to sh--.

[Shamrock]

1999

3 3 12 73 Joey Porter DE Colorado State

4 3 13 74 Kris Farris T UCLA (...he did come to Buffalo...but with injuries- wasn't he like a College Superstar- Outland (?) trophy winner?

6 4 14 109 Aaron Smith DE Northern Colorado

 

 

1998

1 1 26 26 Alan Faneca G Louisiana State

2 2 11 41 Jeremy Staat DE Arizona State

 

1997

4 3 31 91 Mike Vrabel DE Ohio State

 

1996

1 1 29 29 Jamain Stephens T North Carolina A&T

4 4 31 126 Earl Holmes LB Florida A&M

7 6 33 200 Orpheus Roye DE Florida State

9 7 33 242 Carlos Emmons LB Arkansas State

 

1995

3 3 27 91 Brenden Stai G Nebraska

4 4 22 120 Oliver Gibson DE Notre Dame

 

 

1994

2 2 21 50 Brentson Buckner DE Clemson

3 3 23 88 Jason Gildon LB Oklahoma State

 

1993

 

2 2 15 44 Chad Brown LB Colorado

 

8 7 17 185 Jeff Zgonina DT Purdue

 

 

1992

1 1 11 11 Leon Searcy T Miami (FL)

2 2 10 38 Levon Kirkland LB Clemson

3 3 11 67 Joel Steed DT Colorado

 

 

There are some solid "trench" playing guys in that list, most are still playing somewhere as well. There are some decent LBer finds as welll. Whose the LBer scout at Pitt?

Brown, Gildon, Kirkland, Holmes, Emmons, Vrabel, Porter- none higher than a 2nd pick too.

[Orton's Arm]

You're right; my bad. He wasn't supposed to be on that list. He belongs on the list of TD's biggest busts.

540192[/snapback]

As does Kordell Stewart.

[obie_wan]

gotta like that Troy Edwards pick in 1st round- another midget punt returner who couldn't cut it as a WR

[Corp000085]

I think probably his biggest QB error was his first: picking Johnson over Flutie. At the time, I agreed with the move because of RJ's upside. But Flutie won games and if we had Flutie as QB with the defenses that GW put together his second and third years, there's no doubt we would have been a playoff team and GW would have still been here.

540033[/snapback]

 

 

while its hard to dispute the argument that riding flutie and the defense gives the bills a better chance than chancing johnson and riding the defense, in hindsight the bills were a mess that season. the defense sucked and the offense sucked before you even began talking QB. the difference between flutie or johnson is the difference between arguing which type of feces is better to plunge? is it really the TP overloaded diarreah toilet or the giant unbreakable log jam? in the end you're just dealing with a pile of sh--

[Simon]

From my understanding, and according to many diehard Steeler fan friends of mine (I have all together too many friends that are Steeler fans), a big part of the power struggle between Cowher and TD at the end was that TD wanted NO PART of Kordell as QB, and Cowher wanted to stick with him. These guys know their Steelers info well enough IMO that I will trust them.

 

I could have posted the exact same words.

That's how I've heard it from an awful lot of people who I think know what they're talking about. And the fact that Donahoe always had guys like Tomczak, JimMiller and KentGraham around doesn't hurt that theory either.

Cya

[JDG]

Solid coaching if you ask me. Alot of those players went to other teams and turned to sh--.

540395[/snapback]

 

Which ones were those? Chad Brown? Mike Vrabel? Orpheus Roye? Carlos Emmons? Brentson Buckner?

 

JDG

[Simon]

Which ones were those?  Chad Brown?  Mike Vrabel?  Orpheus Roye?  Carlos Emmons?  Brentson Buckner?

 

JDG

540710[/snapback]

or maybe he meant Zgonina, Earl Holmes, Brendan Stai or Searcy?

[tennesseeboy]

I think TD drafts good players. However he doesn't, or at least hasn't here in Buffalo, successfully drafted or negotiated what we need to win, nor has he found good coaches, when plenty of good coaches were available. Finally, and most important, he hasn't gotten us to a playoff game. There are certain jobs where the proof is in the pudding, and for a GM over a five year period, there is a need to show real results in the win loss column.

[The Tomcat]

I think probably his biggest QB error was his first: picking Johnson over Flutie. At the time, I agreed with the move because of RJ's upside. But Flutie won games and if we had Flutie as QB with the defenses that GW put together his second and third years, there's no doubt we would have been a playoff team and GW would have still been here.

540033[/snapback]

 

after winning a few games in San Diego...Flutieboy lost 8 in a row....teams figured him out......

 

Flutie=RJ