Old Rehash I know

[plenzmd1]

I am one who at first thought thinks TD and MM should go. But then i really start to think it about it, and it may not be such an easy decision after all. Here are some of the negatives and positives I see.

 

My thoughts on TD:

 

Everybody blasts him , I think, for two main reasons.

a) MW draft Pick

b) Both lines

 

First on MW. I will not blast TD for that pick. I thought it was a good pick at the time, and did not then, and still do not, think it was a reach. However, like Bill in NYC points out, thats a lotta money for that position and maybe that is where some of the crtitism makes sense. However, I also felt MW was playing very good the last half of the schedule last year, and really think that injury agaisn't Tampa derailed his whole season this year. I'd like to see him stay if a deal that makes financial sence can be reached.

 

Second, the lines. I, along with most on this board, agreed with not signing JJ at that price. We`all siad the same thing, you can never count on that guy getting 16 games in a year. So can't fault him for not resigning him. On the other hand, it appeared we did not have a plan to address that position. I am no afficianado on OL play, so I need some help here, but it seems to me as if Gandy has been okay at the very least, and maybe even good at some points this season. My main beef with TD on the OL was we heard all last year and this year that continuity on OL is paramount to success. And, If I remeber correctly, the OL played very well after about the 6th game last year(albeit agaisn't slightly less than stellar competition).So my main beef was why break that completely off and release Tucker, and to a lesser degree Smith and Price. Now some will say those guys are not playing elsewhere, but as Marv always said about FA, losing a guy hurts your team more than it helps the team that signed them. This may have been the case with these guys being cut.

 

Long and short, I agreed with the decision making on JJ , but just felt there was a way to replace only one position, instead of the both positions on the left side.

 

 

When it comes to DL, I thought that letting Phat Pat go was iffy, but could understand the reasoning. Wrong side of 30, Edwrads showed flashes last year, Anderson must have shown something in practice, and we keep 10 other starters. And unfortunetly, where we were on the cap limited somewhat what we could offer. PLease remember both EM and MW had to restructure to get us under the cap, so we had limited room. Also, I was one who really thought Kelsay was going to have a very strong year this year.Add in Sam, and I really thought the Dline was in good shape, but I do not get paid to make those calls.

 

To me , that there is another negative for TD. We constantly here how he has cleaned up the cap, but when you need to have guys restructure and push earnings into future years, i cannot see that as having your cap house in order. When is the last time the Eagles, the Pats, the Colts, the Chargers, the Broncos, the Stillers, had to restructure a guy to get cap room? Doesn't happen, and i fault TD on that.

 

Overall, I think TD has done a fair job drafting. Hes had some big hits, and some big misses. My one real beef was the the Roscoe pick, when I felt there were still some quality OL left, including Elton Brown, that could have been picked before Roscoe. I was baffled at that selection, but I also think outside of the top 5 or so recievers, they are a dime a dozen. And, we had not one, not two, not three, but four capable return guys already on the squad, so that part of the equation should have been nullified.

 

 

Now, for the tricky part, lets say you want TD to go. Who in the hell do you get to run the ship? I am truly at a loss here. We`scream about inexperienced HC, how comfortable will you be with a rookie GM. I am looking for someone to give me realistic scenarios and names. I do not want to hear bring in Wolf, as hes going nowwhere. Parcells and Belichek ain't coming here, and neither is Pioli , or Savage, or AJ Smith.

 

So, someone please give me viable names.

 

 

On the other hand, TD has seen first hand the mess we have here. Maybe hes the best one to clean it up. Think he might be inclined to draft and sign some OL and DL players this year. I think there are some key pieces in place here, and I am really not looking forwrad to a whole new regime coming in, blowing up the whole team because guys don't fit the new scheme, and starting from scratch. But on the other hand, do we really have an offensive identity. But, on the other hand, if all the players on the O-Line suck, then how can you effectively have any scheme.

 

 

Lordy, this my longest post ever, and I am more confused than when I started.

 

 

In conclusion, I guess I am looking for some input on just who can be the GM if TD is let go. Help this confused Bills fan, PLEASE!!!!!!!

[The Senator]

I was thinking that Marv might be a good choice.

[macaroni]

My problem with TD does not hinge on any single move or decision .... IMHO, the draft is a crap shoot at best, so to fault him because "player A" was supposed to be a super star, and just didn't pan out is just plain wacky. To fault him for any individual move/trade/cut is also unrealistic because we will never have all of the "inside" specific details going into the decision.

 

What I DO fault TD for is his philosophies (both stated and inferred) on building a team. Early in his tenure he had stated that retaining a sucessful kicker, or persuing a good kicker was not important because (and I quote) "Kickers are a dime a dozen in the NFL." He painfully learned his lesson that year.

 

I suspect he has the same philosophy about the linemen on both sides of the ball, we've been plugging in has has beens and never will be's for the last five years, and then blaming "poor execution" when we should have been blaming "poor talent". The Bills are quick to point out that we can not afford to pay a Jennings, Pat Williams, Ruben Brown ..... we've let them walk ..... and tried to plug in Bennie Andersons, Pucillios (or what ever his name was) and others too numerous and bad to remember. I hate to always return to the "Peters experiment" ..... but the mere thought that an undrafted rookie TE was the best fit we had on our roster for a RT replacement this year really baffels me ..... and once deposed as a starter, our "injured" starting RT was inserted to TRY and play LG instead of a Healthy LG backup ...... well if I had hair, I'd be pulling it out.

 

Unfortunately I'm not astute enough to be familiar with who is out there that can replace TD, so I can't help you there ...... but I DO feel he needs to be replaced.

[plenzmd1]

My problem with TD does not hinge on any single move or decision .... IMHO, the draft is a crap shoot at best, so to fault him because "player A" was supposed to be a super star, and just didn't pan out is just plain wacky. To fault him for any individual move/trade/cut is also unrealistic because we will never have all of the "inside" specific details going into the decision.

 

What I DO fault TD for is his philosophies (both stated and inferred) on building a team. Early in his tenure he had stated that retaining a sucessful kicker, or persuing a good kicker was not important because (and I quote) "Kickers are a dime a dozen in the NFL." He painfully learned his lesson that year.

 

I suspect he has the same philosophy about the linemen on both sides of the ball, we've been plugging in has has beens and never will be's for the last five years, and then blaming "poor execution" when we should have been blaming "poor talent". The Bills are quick to point out that we can not afford to pay a Jennings, Pat Williams, Ruben Brown ..... we've let them walk ..... and tried to plug in Bennie Andersons, Pucillios (or what ever his name was) and others too numerous and bad to remember. I hate to always return to the "Peters experiment" ..... but the mere thought that an undrafted rookie TE was the best fit we had on our roster for a RT replacement this year really baffels me ..... and once deposed as a starter, our "injured" starting RT was inserted to TRY and play LG instead of a Healthy LG backup ...... well if I had hair, I'd be pulling it out.

 

Unfortunately I'm not astute enough to be familiar with who is out there that can replace TD, so I can't help you there ...... but I DO feel he needs to be replaced.

540011[/snapback]

 

I agree with everything there except the Peters thing. Lets recall that Antonio Gates was a basketball player who never even played football, so i do believe someone can "grow" into a job or position.

 

And as I stated, it is just so easy to say lets fire TD, and I am in that camp. But, and this is big but, who gets the job?

[Tortured Soul]

I think the #1 reason for letting TD go is the bottom line. 30-48 going on 30-50. I don't think anything else matters.

 

To replace him, I think the options should be:

1. Top flight coaching candidate, given full roganizational contol. This category would include the Jeff Fishers of the world.

2. The personnel director from Chicago, if category 1 is not available.

[macaroni]

I agree with everything there except the Peters thing. Lets recall that Antonio Gates was a basketball player who never even played football, so i do believe someone can "grow" into a job or position.

 

And as I stated, it is just so easy to say lets fire TD, and I am in that camp. But, and this is big but, who gets the job?

540027[/snapback]

 

If I recall correctly ..... Antonio Gates was a Basket Ball player who was signed because somebody saw an athletic ability that could be converted to the Football field as a TE.

 

I think the Peters situation is quite similar .... I do believe he was primarily an oversized basket ball player who played one season of college football, and he was signed by the Bills with the intent of developing a bigger stronger Anonio Gates.

 

While I agree that a player can "grow" into a job or position ..... my problem is .... why haven't we "grown" one of our backup linemen who have been collecting a paycheck because they were actually supposed to be able to play on the line, instead of "converting" Peters.

If we were "chock blocked" with gifted TEs, I may be able to phathom the reasoning ....... but all in all I'd rather have Peters playing TE as our roster stands now.

[tennesseeboy]

LOOK OUT FOR WOLF

One of the NFL's finest general managers could be getting ready to take the plunge again.

 

Word is that former Packers general manager Ron Wolf, one of the most respected talent evaluators in the league, is getting ready to return to the game.

 

Very quietly, Wolf has been looking into potential fits for him, and there's no doubt there will be any number of suitors for the man who helped return the luster to Titletown, U.S.A., helping the Green Bay Packers win Super Bowl XXXI.

 

Wolf has been living in Annapolis, Md., since he retired in 2001, but more and more, it's looking like his next home will be back in the NFL.

 

With some lucky team.

 

green bay guy

[tennesseeboy]

I think the #1 reason for letting TD go is the bottom line.  30-48 going on 30-50.  I don't think anything else matters. 

 

To replace him, I think the options should be:

1. Top flight coaching candidate, given full roganizational contol.  This category would include the Jeff Fishers of the world.

2. The personnel director from Chicago, if category 1 is not available.

540032[/snapback]

Bingo

[drnykterstein]

Everybody blasts him , I think, for two main reasons.

a) MW draft Pick

b) Both lines

 

Odd. My list goes like this...

 

1. Hired two crappy coaches

2. Fights with long time respected players (Ruben, Moulds, Phat Pat)

3. Never wins games

4. Sucks at putting an o-line together

[Rico]

Everybody blasts him , I think, for two main reasons.

    a) MW draft Pick

      b) Both lines

539990[/snapback]

HC selections

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Both lines

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MW pick

[plenzmd1]

I think the #1 reason for letting TD go is the bottom line.  30-48 going on 30-50.  I don't think anything else matters. 

 

To replace him, I think the options should be:

1. Top flight coaching candidate, given full roganizational contol.  This category would include the Jeff Fishers of the world.

2. The personnel director from Chicago, if category 1 is not available.

540032[/snapback]

 

#1) I believe Jeff Fisher is still under contract, and do not believe he will be getting fired for not winning with that JayVee squad.

 

#2) Only guy who has full control and has had success is Belichek and to a lesser degree Reid. My sence is that is usually a bad situation. Now, Saban apperas to be heading in the right direction, but time will tell.

 

#3) I am not sold on DePaul. Before this year, never even heard of the guy.Think that team has had a weak ass schedule(sound familiar), tremendous good luck, and they remind of that Bears team that went 13-3. Not really sure how Ruben has been playing, but name one FA they have signed that has made an impact since this guy took over Pro Personnel in 01. Muhommad was overpaid, and the fact that Grossman was injury prone and they did not sign a Brad Johnson type vet strikes me as not being to smart.

 

Again, I do not want to nitpick, but why would you want this guy outside of the Bears record this year?

[plenzmd1]

HC selections

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Both lines

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MW pick

540085[/snapback]

 

Rico, if both lines suck, and you agree that the game is won in the trenches, how can you blame the HC then?

 

And at the risk of sounding like Steve Carrol in THE Office, do not tell only the problem, but also the solution

 

Just playing devils advocate

[Rico]

Rico, if both lines suck, and you agree that the game is won in the trenches, how can you blame the HC then?

 

And at the risk of sounding like Steve Carrol in THE Office, do not tell only the problem, but also the solution

 

Just playing devils advocate

540088[/snapback]

Looking at the big picture, I believe games are won or lost more by coaching than anything else. Whether it's game-planning, gameday adjustments, or leadership shown & instilled in the players from day one. Face it, most of these guys that made the NFL are there for a reason, they're talented. And right now, it appears to me that a lot of these players are running for the bus. Not close to as bad as 2003, but it's getting there. That's coaching and lack of leadership.

 

As far as both lines sucking,

DL first:

I think we're only a solid DT away from being respectable again, and I that will be addressed in the off-season. Letting Phat Pat go hurt us, though I understand the move. He's playing well this year, how much longer will he be able to keep this level of play up? Ron Edwards wasn't the answer as a starter, but I think we are missing him more than most think. Anderson isn't the answer as a starter either, but he's getting some good experience & will be part of next year's rotation. As for the DE's, Schobel's fine. It doesn't look like Kelsay/Denney will ever amount to anything special, but a stronger interior will help. Moves: Get rid of Gray, finally bring in Phat Pat's replacement, re-sign Denney (good depth), maybe re-sign Edwards if the $$$ is right.

OL:

No doubt TD dropped the ball here. In 2004, it appeared that we were only a LG away from having a decent OL. Bennie Anderson was clearly not the answer... a disaster waiting to happen., and it did. HUGE mistake by TD. I didn't like seeing Jennings leave, but he wasn't close to being worth the jack he got... and he's out again. Gandy's been alright at times, but I don't know if he's the answer. I don't think after last year that anyone thought Villareal would look old so quick (injuries haven't helped) or that MW wasn't primed to take the next step & posssibly become an All-Pro fixture at RT (who the fug really knows what happened here). Teague is Teague... some games he looks good, other games he gets blown-up... doesn't help him playing next to Fat Bennie & beat-up Chris V. So, the only thing I truly blame TD for here is signing Fat Bennie. & maybe not having a better option at LT... the rest of the OL was OK on paper but blew up in his face. How do you fix it? Good question, it is a mess. I'd probably begin by keeping Peters & Gandy (not necessarily as starters), see what Preston can do & blow up the rest.

[plenzmd1]

Looking at the big picture, I believe games are won or lost more by coaching than anything else. Whether it's game-planning, gameday adjustments, or leadership shown & instilled in the players from day one. Face it, most of these guys that made the NFL are there for a reason, they're talented. And right now, it appears to me that a lot of these players are running for the bus. Not close to as bad as 2003, but it's getting there. That's coaching and lack of leadership.

 

As far as both lines sucking,

DL first:

I think we're only a solid DT away from being respectable again, and I that will be addressed in the off-season. Letting Phat Pat go hurt us, though I understand the move. He's playing well this year, how much longer will he be able to keep this level of play up? Ron Edwards wasn't the answer as a starter, but I think we are missing him more than most think. Anderson isn't the answer as a starter either, but he's getting some good experience & will be part of next year's rotation. As for the DE's, Schobel's fine. It doesn't look like Kelsay/Denney will ever amount to anything special, but a stronger interior will help. Moves: Get rid of Gray, finally bring in Phat Pat's replacement, re-sign Denney (good depth), maybe re-sign Edwards if the $$$ is right.

OL:

No doubt TD dropped the ball here. In 2004, it appeared that we were only a LG away from having a decent OL. Bennie Anderson was clearly not the answer... a disaster waiting to happen., and it did. HUGE mistake by TD. I didn't like seeing Jennings leave, but he wasn't close to being worth the jack he got... and he's out again. Gandy's been alright at times, but I don't know if he's the answer. I don't think after last year that anyone thought Villareal would look old so quick (injuries haven't helped) or that MW wasn't primed to take the next step & posssibly become an All-Pro fixture at RT (who the fug really knows what happened here). Teague is Teague... some games he looks good, other games he gets blown-up... doesn't help him playing next to Fat Bennie & beat-up Chris V. So, the only thing I truly blame TD for here is signing Fat Bennie.  & maybe not having a better option at LT... the rest of the OL was OK on paper but blew up in his face. How do you fix it? Good question, it is a mess.   I'd probably begin by keeping Peters & Gandy (not necessarily as starters), see what Preston can do & blow up the rest.

540142[/snapback]

 

Het Rico, not sure I understand here. Up top you believe its mainly coaching, but in the analysis, which I agree with , you point to some personnel issue. Anyway, I digress.

 

If we believe TD goes, who in the hell do you bring in here? And I got a tough time believing TD stays and MM goes. However, I can TD leaving and MM staying.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

What I DO fault TD for is his philosophies (both stated and inferred) on building a team. Early in his tenure he had stated that retaining a sucessful kicker, or persuing a good kicker was not important because (and I quote) "Kickers are a dime a dozen in the NFL." He painfully learned his lesson that year.

 

I suspect he has the same philosophy about the linemen on both sides of the ball, we've been plugging in has has beens and never will be's for the last five years, and then blaming "poor execution" when we should have been blaming "poor talent". The Bills are quick to point out that we can not afford to pay a Jennings, Pat Williams, Ruben Brown ..... we've let them walk ..... and tried to plug in Bennie Andersons, Pucillios (or what ever his name was) and others too numerous and bad to remember. I hate to always return to the "Peters experiment" ..... but the mere thought that an undrafted rookie TE was the best fit we had on our roster for a RT replacement this year really baffels me ..... and once deposed as a starter, our "injured" starting RT was inserted to TRY and play LG instead of a Healthy LG backup ...... well if I had hair, I'd be pulling it out.

540011[/snapback]

 

I think, in hindsight, TD's philosophies have been right:

 

1) Kickers ARE a dime a dozen. In fact, one of the scrubs off the street that TD brought in was Shayne Graham, who will be kicking in the pro bowl this year. Unfortunately, we didn't have as much patience with Shayne as we did with Moorman (another street FA who will be playing in the pro bowl this year).

 

2) Many teams have the same philosophy re. the lines, especially the offensive line. The Pats shop in the bargain basement when it comes to o-lineman and they've consistently had a great line. You can get great lineman late in the draft (like Jonas in the 3rd round) or even the maligned Puccillo (who is supposedly having a banner year in Cleveland this year). But TD isn't opposed to spending money on the o-line. After all, he picked Mike Williams early; in Pittsburgh he picked guys like Faneca and Stephens in the first round.

 

I think TD's problem is that we have good players who are dumb, and the coaches haven't figured out how to make them smart enough to use their talent.

[Rico]

Het Rico, not sure I understand here. Up top you believe its mainly coaching, but in the analysis, which I agree with , you point to some personnel issue. Anyway, I digress.

 

If we believe TD goes, who in the hell do you bring in here? And I got a tough time believing TD stays and MM goes. However, I can TD leaving and MM staying.

540161[/snapback]

Just because I believe his HC selections will be the downfall of TD doesn't mean that some of his personnel decisions are without blame... if he ends up leaving, IMO it won't be because of the DL (this year) or the OL.

 

As for his replacement, I'll wait and see... Scott Pioli would be ideal , but I am on the Chris Polian bandwagon. Great pedigree with ties to Buffalo, coming from a solid organization, learned the ropes from the best, much desired by other NFL teams.

[plenzmd1]

Just because I believe his HC selections will be the downfall of TD doesn't mean that some of his personnel decisions are without blame... if he ends up leaving, IMO it won't be because of the DL (this year) or the OL.

 

As for his replacement, I'll wait and see... Scott Pioli would be ideal , but I am on the Chris Polian bandwagon. Great pedigree with ties to Buffalo, coming from a solid organization, learned the ropes from the best, much desired by other NFL teams.

540189[/snapback]

 

Beautiful, thats what I was looking for.Never evn knew ole Bill had a kid following him into the family business

 

 

Just read a few nice articles on him, and I think after 10 minutes reserach I'm already in the tank for him.

[Rico]

the maligned Puccillo (who is supposedly having a banner year in Cleveland this year). 

540173[/snapback]

Is that right? Wow.