drnykterstein Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Well I just say, I want TD out of here too. But a lot of times the reasons people give for him sucking are non-existant stupid reasons. If your going to hate a guy, at least get your facts straight about why you hate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl Bills Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 I wasn't saying I thought TH was a great back, just that he was a good player when he played for us. As for his future I believe he is very capable of running over 400 yards in a season. I liked the WM pick and think he has all the talent in the world, Travis Henry just seemed to have more heart and "want to". I thought the original poster made some good points though, I think we've all just heard these arguments over and over again and are waiting for something to actually happen with this front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Why did we draft WM when we had TH? Cause he was a RB that was supposed to go high in the first round and be a great RB. We decided that because he was still available we might as well pick him up. If he doesn't work out, we still have a good RB who does fumble alot. If he works out, we got a steal and possibly the best tandem of RB's in the league (kind of like what Miami will have if they can keep there 2 backs playing together) and be a POWER RUNNING TEAM like they have been saying we are for the past couple of years. I would have loved to see the look on defenders faces if we had both TH and WM lined up in the back with a couple receivers. It didn't work out cause TH wanted the same thing Peerless wanted, to be the only #1 on a team, now TH can try for that on a worse team in Tenessee, and Peerless can do it from the unemployement line. I will also agree that you can not fault TD for picking Mike Williams, as he was projected by everyone to be an extremely good lineman, he just didn't hold up his end of the bargain. I will not fault TD for not trying to get us a better o-line and d-line cause he has tried. What I can fault him for is that he has failed miserably doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poeticlaw Posted December 21, 2005 Author Share Posted December 21, 2005 I think people are missing the point on the TH trade. Yes Travis was disgruntle and didnt want to be a number two when he has carried this team on his back before Willis got here. We got a third round pick for him great, Travis is still in the same position he was when he left here sucks to be him. The main point is Travis was a viable back up because he was capable of starting-not to mentio he was a bruising running back. THe fact his there is noone behind willis to give us a viable option, and not to mention if he went down we would basically jave no rb capable of starting and TD totally negelected this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 I know we would like to hang MM for the job this season but give him another year without TD before we do that. As long as he gets an Offensive coordinator and a Defensive cordinator he might do a fairly good Job. 539202[/snapback] Well... 1st off why hire a New GM and not let him pick his HC? Just makes no sense to me...Chances are MM would be gone after 2006 regardless under that scenerio... And MM might do a fairly good job??? Well... the statement itself indicates he's doing less than fairly good now...Why in the world would you want to keep a HC who is less than fairly good on the presumption that he might be fairly good one day? And I agree, MM is less than fairly good...He is mediocre...at best. The Bills need a VERY good Coach and an even better Leader...MM is neither a good Coach, nor a good Leader...He needs to be gone every bit as much as TD if not more in my opinion... And once again, keep MM for a year and see what happens if the Bills disappoint again in 2006...It will not be pretty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 What I can fault him for is that he has failed miserably doing it.539472[/snapback] In the vain of buffalo_mike2... YUP. Yeah I really agree on that. I just wish everyone else would come to correctly realize TD's faults and stop getting pissed off at the guy for the things which he actually did well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 I think people are missing the point on the TH trade. Yes Travis was disgruntle and didnt want to be a number two when he has carried this team on his back before Willis got here. We got a third round pick for him great, Travis is still in the same position he was when he left here sucks to be him. The main point is Travis was a viable back up because he was capable of starting-not to mentio he was a bruising running back. THe fact his there is noone behind willis to give us a viable option, and not to mention if he went down we would basically jave no rb capable of starting and TD totally negelected this. 539489[/snapback] The point really is that Travis does this team little good because he's a crappy third down back, and that is what we need far more than a back-up to Willis. And I even like Travis. But he does us little good unless Willis goes down for an extended period of time. Lionel Gates showed a lot of promise in the pre-season but isn't ever activated because he doesn't play special teams and he's not a better third down back than Shaud Williams is, but then again, neither is Travis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 I may be off base on this ..... but I don't necessarily want MM fired for his w/l record, or onfield performance this season ..... IMHO ..... head coaches like QB's WRs etc need to learn as they go ..... with any "new kid" you are going to have a learning curve, so I'm willing to give a new head coach a free pass for a little bit. The reason I DO want him fired is his seemingly childish style of interpersonal relationships. Drew publicly states he doesn't want to "hand over" the starting QB job to "the kid" without a competition for it ..... and he's cut, without a viable "plan B" at QB, to me smacks of MM showing Bledsoe whos boss I thought MM striped the OC of playcalling responsibilities because of piss poor uninspired play calling in addition to bone headed trick plays ... but since MM has been calling the plays I've seen no difference .... I suspect a confilt of opinion, and MM pulls the "I'm the boss and you're in time out card". I think the Handling of Sam Adams is purely MM showing Sam who's the boss I think the handling of the Moulds thing is purely MM showing Eric who's boss I suspect Mike Williams was embarressed at Left Guard, and then left to languish on the bench, is MM making an example of MW. I suspect the whole JP/KH starter thing is some kind of "show of power". MM can not only NOT lead a team ..... he can't even "play nice" with his teammates. 539299[/snapback] Agreed...Just because someone makes you the Boss does not mean you are a natural Leader...Please can someone just once tell me that when they see MM on the Sideline, or when they see him in a Press Conference, that they see a Leader of Men...The reason you never hear that is simple...MM has no, or at least very few traits of a Leader...And when things start going bad on a Team Leadership, and the Players belief in a HC, gets magnified 10 fold... MM is not a Leader, the Players don't believe in him, and he needs to get gone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 >1. His 5 year plan stated playoffs-Missed True. >2. Hired Greg Williams-Missed True. >3. Drafted Mike Williams with the highest pick the Bills have had in years-Missed BS. Very few GMs would have passed on MW. This is a dumbass thing that people keep saying. >4. Never improved the offensive line in his tenure-BIG MISS True. >5. Kept brittle RJ over a team favorite and proven winner-Missed Whatever. After releasing so many players, RJ had more upside than flutie. We would have needed a new QB after a year or two with flutie, so what's your point? >6. Thought we would be better off without Big Pat Williams-Missed Not really a miss. Pat Williams got too much money. The miss was thinking someone could fill his shoes. >7. Thought our rookie qb who had a broken leg a majority of the previous season was ready over a qb who was one game away from playoff contention after a 0-4 start-Missed Wrong. Bledsoe ain't that good. Anyway, they wanted to have an open competition for QB in training camp and Bledsoe said no. >8. Trading away our best backup option at RB and not replacing him with a viable option-Big MISS You can't be serious, can you? Our best backup option didn't want to be here! He wanted to be somewhere as the starter. Getting a 3rd rounder for a guy with a drug problem is friggin brilliant. Sheesh. >9. Drafts players who have never played in snow-to play in BUFFALO- HUGE MISS. Did you eat lead paint chips as a kid? >Jerry Gray has always been a bad coordinator except GW masked it for his 3 years >and Dick Lebeu masked it last year. Dick lebeu wasthe best coordinator we could >have possibly had and we lost him to keep Gray who has shown this year how bad >he really his. Interesting. Lebeau was DC in Pittsburgh last year, and Gray produced a #2 defense. Get your facts straight. >A new line, young qbs/wr/RB and defense we could becme a forcible team. What is a forcible team? Is that a team that is pushy? Did you mean something else? Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Well... 1st off why hire a New GM and not let him pick his HC? Just makes no sense to me...Chances are MM would be gone after 2006 regardless under that scenerio... And MM might do a fairly good job??? Well... the statement itself indicates he's doing less than fairly good now...Why in the world would you want to keep a HC who is less than fairly good on the presumption that he might be fairly good one day? And I agree, MM is less than fairly good...He is mediocre...at best. The Bills need a VERY good Coach and an even better Leader...MM is neither a good Coach, nor a good Leader...He needs to be gone every bit as much as TD if not more in my opinion... And once again, keep MM for a year and see what happens if the Bills disappoint again in 2006...It will not be pretty... 539493[/snapback] I couldn't agree more. I see very few Bill's games. The NE and DEN games this year. My memory of those games, of MM was that of a guy bending down a bit and squinting, with a "duh" expression. Cripes...even Marvin Lewis, a noted cool customer, after 3rd round jerk wr Chris Henry scored a td and proceeded to take off his helmet and crow (15 yd penalty assesed on their k-o), hunted that idiot down, jerked him by the face guard, slapped his helmet, and stuck a finger in his face. MM seems to have no gravel in his guts. And I'd think that a fellow with a bunch of playing time would have some concept of the situation at hand and how to get something out of it. I'm very disappointed in him. I thought when he signed on, it would be a plus. But evidence points otherwise. Some say, "What about this coach after coach? It'll hurt tram attitude". True, but so does 4 and 10. MM should be chalked up to experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 5. Kept brittle RJ over a team favorite and proven winner-Missed IIRC, Flutie was 37 years old when he was released. There is no room for a $5 million a year, 37 year old QB on a rebuilding team. The 2001 season was going to be a bust anyway, so it made sense to use it as an opportunity to evaulate what Johnson could or couldn't do. 7. Thought our rookie qb who had a broken leg a majority of the previous season was ready over a qb who was one game away from playoff contention after a 0-4 start-Missed The real miss may have been using a first, second, and fifth round pick to get a QB in the first place, when the team was close to getting to the playoffs. There were clear needs on the offensive line that the three Losman draft picks could have been used to fill. If I thought Losman was going to be an elite QB my tune would be different. 8. Trading away our best backup option at RB and not replacing him with a viable option-Big MISS I'd rather have a 3rd round pick than a backup RB who isn't a good third down back, and who was a year away from becoming a free agent. I agree with you that TD should be fired, and that Jerry Gray should be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Interesting. Lebeau was DC in Pittsburgh last year, and Gray produced a #2 defense. Get your facts straight. 539508[/snapback] You are technically correct: the Bills' defense allowed the second-fewest yards last year. But that defense was clearly far from being the second-best defense in the league. Sure, it was probably the best defense when it came time to make another team's bad offense look absolutely terrible. We faced plenty of bad offenses last year, which helped inflate the defense's stats. (Miami twice, the Jets without their QB, San Francisco, Cleveland, Baltimore, and those are just the ones I remember off the top of my head.) But when it came time to get the job done against real offenses, our defense generally didn't measure up. If Joe Montana was defined by his clutch TD pass to John Taylor, our defense was defined by the following: - Giving up a game-winning drive to the Jaguars on opening day. - Giving up a game-winning drive to the Jets late in the 4th quarter. - Giving up a game-deciding nine minute drive to Pittsburgh's backups. - Doing worse than the average defense New England faced in both New England games. So in important games against teams with good offenses, our defense couldn't get the job done. But boy, they sure beat up those Browns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 I decided to take a closer look at how the Bills' defense did in last year's New England games. For any team in the AFC East, the road to the Super Bowl goes through New England. So you'd hope that the defense would play particularly well in those games. You'd also expect this. Jerry Gray had his horses: Sam Adams, Pat Williams, Aaron Schobel, London Fletcher, Takeo Spikes, Nate Clements, Terrence McGee, Lawyer Milloy, Troy Vincent. That's nine starters right there who were solid to Pro Bowl-level players. The other two starters--Kelsay and Posey--were less than solid, but not embarrassments. To see how well Jerry Gray used this abundance of talent, I first looked at how the New England offense did when it was facing defenses other than Buffalo's. When facing a defense other than Buffalo's, the 2004 New England offense averaged 2.5 points per drive. (This ignores drives that ended in kneel-downs, as well as one or two play drives that ended with the half.) In the first Bills/Patriots game, the Pats scored 2.7 points per drive. In the second game, the Patriots scored 2.6 points per drive. Moreover, the Pats scored on 53% of their drives against the Bills (over the course of the two games), while scoring on just 48% of their drives against non-Bills opponents. This shows that, when facing Buffalo, the Patriots offense did a good job of creating many long drives; thereby helping to keep their own defense rested. The long and the short of all this is that the Bills' defense did a worse job than the average defense the Patriots faced, even though the Bills defense had a ton of talent. If the talent's there, and the results aren't, you blame the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 I decided to take a closer look at how the Bills' defense did in last year's New England games. For any team in the AFC East, the road to the Super Bowl goes through New England. So you'd hope that the defense would play particularly well in those games. You'd also expect this. Jerry Gray had his horses: Sam Adams, Pat Williams, Aaron Schobel, London Fletcher, Takeo Spikes, Nate Clements, Terrence McGee, Lawyer Milloy, Troy Vincent. That's nine starters right there who were solid to Pro Bowl-level players. The other two starters--Kelsay and Posey--were less than solid, but not embarrassments. To see how well Jerry Gray used this abundance of talent, I first looked at how the New England offense did when it was facing defenses other than Buffalo's. When facing a defense other than Buffalo's, the 2004 New England offense averaged 2.5 points per drive. (This ignores drives that ended in kneel-downs, as well as one or two play drives that ended with the half.) In the first Bills/Patriots game, the Pats scored 2.7 points per drive. In the second game, the Patriots scored 2.6 points per drive. Moreover, the Pats scored on 53% of their drives against the Bills (over the course of the two games), while scoring on just 48% of their drives against non-Bills opponents. This shows that, when facing Buffalo, the Patriots offense did a good job of creating many long drives; thereby helping to keep their own defense rested. The long and the short of all this is that the Bills' defense did a worse job than the average defense the Patriots faced, even though the Bills defense had a ton of talent. If the talent's there, and the results aren't, you blame the coach. 539547[/snapback] knew you had to be a patsie troll...................the road to the super bowl no longer goes through gillette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 knew you had to be a patsie troll...................the road to the super bowl no longer goes through gillette 539550[/snapback] Do you actually think before you post, or do you just blurt out whatever comes into your head? The year in question is 2004, when the road to the Super Bowl clearly did go through New England. Even this year, it would be hard for the Bills to get anywhere in the playoffs without being able to beat New England. It's awfully tough to beat New England when your defense doesn't hold up its end of the bargain, which it hasn't under Jerry Gray. And THAT, in case you're too dense to grasp it, is the point I was trying to make earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 "What is The Bills' Problem?" Well, it's clearly a case of mistaken identity pushed to the point of identity crisis. DonnaHo came here to build The Bills in the mould of an AFC North Division contender. He's failed. Even with bringing in every available loose or jettisoned cog from that division, they've failed to make a decent machine. Besides, no one pointed out to DonnaHo early enough that The Bills play in the AFC East. That's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Because the Bills management thinks too highly of themselves. They wouldn't know if they had a good thing (polian). I name others too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Do you actually think before you post, or do you just blurt out whatever comes into your head? The year in question is 2004, when the road to the Super Bowl clearly did go through New England. Even this year, it would be hard for the Bills to get anywhere in the playoffs without being able to beat New England. It's awfully tough to beat New England when your defense doesn't hold up its end of the bargain, which it hasn't under Jerry Gray. And THAT, in case you're too dense to grasp it, is the point I was trying to make earlier. 539555[/snapback] the point i'm making now is new england has clearly dropped from the ranks of the elite in the AFC.......New England will not represent the AFC in the super bowl ....and the road to the Super bowl no longer goes through New England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 You never know. Its money time now. I wouldn't turn your back on this team yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 You never know. Its money time now. I wouldn't turn your back on this team yet. 539566[/snapback] they'll be lucky to win one playoff game....if Jacksonville makes the playoffs they'll be the only team in the playoffs they can beat......if Jacksonville misses they won't be better than any Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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