Olaf Fub Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 The Steelers haven't changed their drafting style since he left. They still seem to get the same solid players in the draft. I'm starting to wonder how much Donahoe had to do with their picks in the 90s? Maybe it's Cowher, the scouting staff or the Rooneys that are the solid footballmen and Donahoe was just along for the ride as an expendable administrator. Turnover, over a five year period, is huge for every team in the NFL. I don't see how you can make the case that the Steelers are still Donahoe’s team. The Bills, on the other hand, are most definitely his team and I think their lack of success speaks for itself.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 22, 2005 Posted December 22, 2005 The Steelers haven't changed their drafting style since he left. They still seem to get the same solid players in the draft. I'm starting to wonder how much Donahoe had to do with their picks in the 90s? Maybe it's Cowher, the scouting staff or the Rooneys that are the solid footballmen and Donahoe was just along for the ride as an expendable administrator. Turnover, over a five year period, is huge for every team in the NFL. I don't see how you can make the case that the Steelers are still Donahoe’s team. The Bills, on the other hand, are most definitely his team and I think their lack of success speaks for itself. 540407[/snapback] Hmmm. Interesting observation. It makes one wonder if the brains behind TD's success in Pittsburgh were somewhere other than TD's head...
Tcali Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 Coach Tuesday: Mort, please answer my question 'cuz I had to walk 2 miles to work (transit strike). Rumors in Buffalo are flying that Donahoe already has been told he'll be fired, and that Mularkey is likely to be let go too. Any word on possible replacements for these guys? Ron Wolf, perhaps? Thanks. Chris Mortensen: (11:39 AM ET ) You think Ron Wolf is going to Buffalo? Listen, that's the problem with running off highly qualified guys like Tom Donohoe - you really aren't going to find any better. 539074[/snapback] I guarantee that I..yes Tcali---could have produced a better squad than this 'highly qualified ' guy did.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 Hmmm. Interesting observation. It makes one wonder if the brains behind TD's success in Pittsburgh were somewhere other than TD's head... 540446[/snapback] Or perhaps they knew a good thing and strategy when they saw it.
Bill from NYC Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 I think that Mr Mortenson has been leaving his possesions in Mike Irvins glove compartment. 540017[/snapback] My compliments for one of the greatest screen names ever to appear on TSW! This ranks up there with "Guffawing Crow."
Simon Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 how does that explain last year's 15-1 record though? I think last year was a combination of luck, scheduling, twist of fate,etc. They sort of hit their nadir in October, and while I give them props for finding ways to win after that they weren't really playing all that well by the end of the season. If the Jets had a kicker they'd have been just another one and done team and that downward trend has continued this year, imo. Which is kind of too bad because of all the years I've been living around here, this is the first time I've found myself rooting for them as I'd really like to see Bettis get to play in a Super Bowl. And if you tell anybody that I'll key your car. I don't think that this theory is supported by the data.....Only 7-8 of the starters can really be called "Donahoe guys."....In short, it was a nice speech Simon, but I don't think that it is at all connected to reality. On offense: Faneca, Hartings MSmith and JTuman are 4/6 of their starting OLine (although Miller is finally starting to push Tuman out). You can also add in Bettis, Hines Ward and Kreider. On defense: Porter, ASmith, vonOelhoffen, and Haggans are 4 of their starting front 7. Then you can also figure in DTownsend, their best corner. Those 12 guys comprise over half their starters. The fact that they still have that many guys starting from back in 2000 when Donahoe left is a real credit to what he put together down there. But over the last 15 months or so, I think we're really starting to see some cracks in the foundation.. I'm starting to wonder how much Donahoe had to do with their picks in the 90s? Maybe it's Cowher, the scouting staff or the Rooneys that are the solid footballmen The Rooneys are definitely a very savvy football family and I'm pretty happy to have a couple guys in the Bills front office who cut their teeth under that kind of ownership. But your kidding yourself if you think Donahoe(and to some extent, Modrak) weren't the primary forces that put that club together. You should also consider that Donahoe was the head of scouting in the late '80's when Pittsburgh was drafting guys like Woodson, Lloyd, Nickerson, JohnJackson, DirtDawson, Strelczyk, Foster and Carnell Lake. Turnover, over a five year period, is huge for every team in the NFL. Yes it is. Which makes it even more amazing that the corps of the Steelers is still together 5 years after the guy left. No other single team in the NFL has had less turnover than Pittsburgh since TD left and that combined with thier success is a real credit to what he did down there. But the further removed they get from Donahoe's tenure, the more cracks we're starting to see and I question how much longer they're going to be able to keep it together.
tennesseeboy Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 Chris Phoenix,AZ: Chris I usually like what you write but "running off highly qualified guys like Tom Donahoe"? He had the opportunity to hire John Fox or Marvin Lewis and came up with Greg Williams. He had the chance to go after Charlie Weis or Romeo Crenell and came up with Mike Mularky. He has ignored both offensive and defensive lines for 5 years. What are is qualifications? Chris Mortensen: (12:05 PM ET ) Donhoe was the only guy who waited to interview Fox and Lewis, who was tired and not enthused about the job. A league source said Ralph Wilson didn't want Fox. Donohoe also was the first guy to give serious weight to Weis - I think health concerns influenced the decision, although I thought Weis would have been a great selection. But let me ask you think - how was Donohoe supposed to anticipate that a defense ranked second in the NFL for two consecutive years with 10 starters back (and all coaches) was going to collapse? I think sometimes it just ain't your year. 539087[/snapback] He might have noticed that the big fat guy named Williams who played defensive tackle wasn't there and he didn't have a lot of studs on the defensive line. He might possibly have considered that there was a paucity of quality linebackers and in the extremely unlikely situation where a linebacker might get hurt we would really be in trouble. Those are two things that might have crossed his mine as far as the defense goes, Chris.
jester43 Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 I'm confused. Are we running this guy out of town or not? My torch is almost out. 540399[/snapback] thanks... i laughed out loud at that.
dave mcbride Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 You should also consider that Donahoe was the head of scouting in the late '80's when Pittsburgh was drafting guys like Woodson, Lloyd, Nickerson, JohnJackson, DirtDawson, Strelczyk, Foster and Carnell Lake.540694[/snapback] simon, given this logic, i trust you're one of the people who gives butler credit in the late 80s for the bills drafts and not simply polian?
Rico Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 On offense: Faneca, Hartings MSmith and JTuman are 4/6 of their starting OLine (although Miller is finally starting to push Tuman out). You can also add in Bettis, Hines Ward and Kreider. On defense: Porter, ASmith, vonOelhoffen, and Haggans are 4 of their starting front 7. Then you can also figure in DTownsend, their best corner. Those 12 guys comprise over half their starters. The fact that they still have that many guys starting from back in 2000 when Donahoe left is a real credit to what he put together down there. But over the last 15 months or so, I think we're really starting to see some cracks in the foundation.. 540694[/snapback] Donahoe left the Steelers in January, 2000... so I don't think you can give him credit for the 2000 draft. Marvel Smith was one of those 2000 picks... I only remember cause he was one of my what-ifs after Flowers busted. Hartings came over as a FA from the Lions in 2001.. again, someone I thought could help the Bills. Von Oelhoffen joined them in 2000 from Cincy(wasn't sure, had to look him up ). I believe you're right on the others.
Olaf Fub Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 I'll agree that the Steelers have had less turnover than most teams but I just compared the depth chart on the Steelers web page to their drafts 2000-2005. They presently have 14 starters from those drafts (15 if you want to count Colcough the KR.) I still don't see how Pittsburgh in 2005 can be considered Donahoe's team. Compare that with the Bills. Only 11 of our starters we're drafted by the team. Moulds (pre-Donahoe), Jason Peters (undrafted FA), Losman, McGahee, Evans, Kelsay, Anderson, Schobel, A. Crowell (he'd be a backup if Spikes was healthy), McGee and Clements. The Bills drafted lower than the Steelers in every draft in the last 5 years save one. The Steelers have had plenty of success post-Donahoe and don't seem to miss him. I sorry, but I can't take Mort's dire warnings about firing Donahoe seriously.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 Donahoe left the Steelers in January, 2000... so I don't think you can give him credit for the 2000 draft. 540787[/snapback] Why not? I doubt scouting started in February of that year...TD at least deserves partial credit, I'd imagine.
Rico Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 Why not? I doubt scouting started in February of that year...TD at least deserves partial credit, I'd imagine. 540967[/snapback] I'd say very partial credit, more of a stretch than anything... he didn't pull the trigger on draft day.
stuckincincy Posted December 23, 2005 Posted December 23, 2005 I'll agree that the Steelers have had less turnover than most teams but I just compared the depth chart on the Steelers web page to their drafts 2000-2005. They presently have 14 starters from those drafts (15 if you want to count Colcough the KR.) I still don't see how Pittsburgh in 2005 can be considered Donahoe's team. Compare that with the Bills. Only 11 of our starters we're drafted by the team. Moulds (pre-Donahoe), Jason Peters (undrafted FA), Losman, McGahee, Evans, Kelsay, Anderson, Schobel, A. Crowell (he'd be a backup if Spikes was healthy), McGee and Clements. The Bills drafted lower than the Steelers in every draft in the last 5 years save one. The Steelers have had plenty of success post-Donahoe and don't seem to miss him. I sorry, but I can't take Mort's dire warnings about firing Donahoe seriously. 540891[/snapback] A poster pointed out a month or so ago, about the dearth of drafted players starting on the OL. The Bills have only one, and he has been the subject of much question. As you note, the current starting RT was an UFDA, signed to the PS and then added to the roster. That does not translate to astute drafting or FA evaluation, or even a reasonable gleaning of what the the waiver wire may turn up.
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted December 24, 2005 Posted December 24, 2005 Chris Mortensen: (12:05 PM ET ) Donohoe also was the first guy to give serious weight to Weis - I think health concerns influenced the decision, although I thought Weis would have been a great selection. But let me ask you think - how was Donohoe supposed to anticipate that a defense ranked second in the NFL for two consecutive years with 10 starters back (and all coaches) was going to collapse? I think sometimes it just ain't your year. 539087[/snapback] Whatever doctor that told TD he should be concerned about Weis' health needs to be shot and probably graduated from ND. And i think the genius move by TD and Co. of letting Dick LaBeau leave had more negative implications on this defense's "performance" this season than Phat Pat (who was great when he played but only played 1/3 of the defensive snaps). You really should take Clements off that list. Your post loses a lot of credibility by his presence there. 539134[/snapback] Clements couldn't lock me down in one on one coverage, but then again I am a high motor guy with a knack for running precise routes. Chris Chambers 15 catches for 238 yards...no he's definitely a lock down corner. Now one thing i will say is that we barely have a semblance of a pass rush and sometimes that kills him, but i can recall some big plays where he just got torched on some moves. I think the point Mort is making is that Buffalo is not that attractive place to begin with.... Sorry... The team has not won in 6 years..... The other factor is that the owner is 87 years old. Whomever he selects will have to worry about the health of the owner. When Ralph dies a new owner will be in place. If that owner wants to bring in his own people then you as GM are out.... That and the fact that if you run off Mularkey in two years Buffalo will be an awful place to be a head coach. No one will want that job either.. 539149[/snapback] I would agree thats its not the most attractive job in the NFL but its still a job in the NFL and thats attractive enough Can I sig-ify that? That's an instant classic! 539232[/snapback] I was just gonna ask that...damn!
In space no one can hear Posted December 24, 2005 Posted December 24, 2005 Or perhaps they knew a good thing and strategy when they saw it. 540494[/snapback] Typical post from a Donahoe apologist!! Are you a Donahoe fan or a Bills fan??
Kelly the Dog Posted December 24, 2005 Posted December 24, 2005 Typical post from a Donahoe apologist!! Are you a Donahoe fan or a Bills fan?? 541434[/snapback] I think Donohoe should probably be fired for doing a consistently lousy job at fielding a team of winners, and a winning team, so I'm hardly an apologist. It is entirely possible, you know, that he had a lot of success before in Pittsburgh, and very little success lately. That kind of stuff happens every day in the real world. You should try spending some time there. Black and white must be really boring after awhile.
Simon Posted December 24, 2005 Posted December 24, 2005 Donahoe left the Steelers in January, 2000... so I don't think you can give him credit for the 2000 draft. Marvel Smith was one of those 2000 picks... I only remember cause he was one of my what-ifs after Flowers busted. Hartings came over as a FA from the Lions in 2001.. again, someone I thought could help the Bills. Von Oelhoffen joined them in 2000 from Cincy(wasn't sure, had to look him up ). I believe you're right on the others. 540787[/snapback] You're right about Hartings. I was thinking they picked him up when Dermontti Dawson couldn't go any more but they must have waited another year. As for January 2000, I thought I rememeber the trouble starting to brew right at the end of the season and Donahoe and the Stillers not finally parting ways until later in teh offseason. Of course, I don't even remember what i had for breakfast so I could be wrong. Cya
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