dave mcbride Posted December 19, 2005 Author Posted December 19, 2005 Perhaps, then, you should also post amusing criticism instead of a constant barrage of bitter sounding diatribes, hyperbole and worst-case scenarios. It would be a lot more fun for you and us. Although you're certainly not alone here. 536906[/snapback] well, i have to admit that i've grown tired of all the posts about how we're just a few players away and how we've wasted all of this great talent. the bills are like the emperor's new clothes, in my opinion. in any event, any bitterness i have is not directed toward the individual players or coaches (i like mularkey, who is unfortunately having a rough season) but management. that should all change quite soon. i think i write very, very few diatribes, by the way. however, if there was ever a time to write diatribes, don't ya think now is the time?
OGTEleven Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 well, i have to admit that i've grown tired of all the posts about how we're just a few players away and how we've wasted all of this great talent. the bills are like the emperor's new clothes, in my opinion. in any event, any bitterness i have is not directed toward the individual players or coaches (i like mularkey, who is unfortunately having a rough season) but management. that should all change quite soon. i think i write very, very few diatribes, by the way. however, if there was ever a time to write diatribes, don't ya think now is the time? 536925[/snapback] ....and Robert Downey Jr. thinks he has very few substance abuse issues.
Kelly the Dog Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 well, i have to admit that i've grown tired of all the posts about how we're just a few players away and how we've wasted all of this great talent. the bills are like the emperor's new clothes, in my opinion. in any event, any bitterness i have is not directed toward the individual players or coaches (i like mularkey, who is unfortunately having a rough season) but management. that should all change quite soon. i think i write very, very few diatribes, by the way. however, if there was ever a time to write diatribes, don't ya think now is the time? 536925[/snapback] Sure the time is now. I just think however terrible this team is and is playing, it's even more terrible to have to listen to everyone complain bitterly in every post. It's perfectly fine to complain, and to be bitter, and there is a lot to complain and be bitter about. But the way most people sound these days, every player is the worst in the league, Mularkey is the worst coach in the history of football, and the second stupidist(sic) behind Satan. Except wonderboy Eric Moulds, of course.
dave mcbride Posted December 19, 2005 Author Posted December 19, 2005 Sure the time is now. I just think however terrible this team is and is playing, it's even more terrible to have to listen to everyone complain bitterly in every post. It perfectly well to complain, and to be bitter, and there is a lot to complain and be bitter about. But the way most people sound these days, every player is the worst in the league, Mularkey is the worst coach in the history of football, and the second stupidist behind Satan. Except wonderboy Eric Moulds, of course. 536935[/snapback] ... but i kind of like mularkey, and have defended him in numerous posts! i also expect him to be the coach next year. if he is, though -- and returning to my original point -- the bills need a serious talent upgrade. they've got some potential excellent players (evans, possibly losman [i wouldn't bet the farm on him, though]). there are ways to think about it constructively too -- there will be some good offensive linemen on the free agent market, and every year some DT stud like shawn rogers talks or eats his way off a team. so there is hope.
Tortured Soul Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 sd: LT, gates, jamal williams, merriman, their RT (forgot his name), mccardell, brees 536858[/snapback] i disagree with a lot of your rankings, but that's been covered. But just one example - the difference between SD in 2003 and 2004, when they went from 4-12 to 12-4, the only players on your list that they added were gates and McCardell, not that McCardell is elite. That's why we believe the Bills are only a gates away, as is every team in this league.
dave mcbride Posted December 19, 2005 Author Posted December 19, 2005 i disagree with a lot of your rankings, but that's been covered. But just one example - the difference between SD in 2003 and 2004, when they went from 4-12 to 12-4, the only players on your list that they added were gates and McCardell, not that McCardell is elite. That's why we believe the Bills are only a gates away, as is every team in this league. 536959[/snapback] that's fine if you disagree, but with regard to sd, i'd say that while they didn't "add" gates or jamal williams last year, it was last year when they took off. also, brees obviously became a much better player last year. with regard to the bills, there is definitely the possiblit for certain players to move up into elite status -- evans, possibly losman (although he has a long way to go), possibly mcgahee. i think schoebel is as good as he's ever going to be, although clements certainly has the capability to bounce back to being an elite player next year.
drnykterstein Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 I hate that original post. It just reeks of ignorance. I was going to type a whole huge response and argue every small point. Its not even worth it though.
MRW Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 This post is arguing the exact wrong premise. The whole idea behind "We're just a few players away!" is that we can, in fact, add a few "elite" players to the roster and have a good team. The great teams in the league have a solid foundation in addition to their stars, and I think you'd be on much more solid ground arguing that the Bills have neglected that foundation and have instead tried for the elite players.
Nervous Guy Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 This post is arguing the exact wrong premise. The whole idea behind "We're just a few players away!" is that we can, in fact, add a few "elite" players to the roster and have a good team. The great teams in the league have a solid foundation in addition to their stars, and I think you'd be on much more solid ground arguing that the Bills have neglected that foundation and have instead tried for the elite players. 537016[/snapback] when the Pats won the first SB how many elite players did they have?
Adam Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 You say that none of our OL's are elite, then that MaGahee definitely is not elite......I see a problem there- if the line isnt good, how can you tell how good Willis is?
dave mcbride Posted December 19, 2005 Author Posted December 19, 2005 You say that none of our OL's are elite, then that MaGahee definitely is not elite......I see a problem there- if the line isnt good, how can you tell how good Willis is? 537022[/snapback] i do actually think he's pretty good, but he's got to stay on the field more (i realize that this isn't his decision). more importantly, though, he simply doesn't make the last man miss. the great backs usually can, unless they're absolute bears like bettis or riggins. i think mcgahee has the potential to be an eddie george type, which is pretty darn good, but again, i'd like to seem him force his coaches play him on third down. since i don't think mularkey is an idiot, i suspect there's a good reason why shaud williams is out there.
Billsjunkie Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 since i don't think mularkey is an idiot, i suspect there's a good reason why shaud williams is out there. 537033[/snapback] Yeah because he can run a draw on third and long ha ha ha. I hate his playcalling. I even know the snap count. Just watch the motion man, its pathetic. No wonder teams tee off on us.
dave mcbride Posted December 19, 2005 Author Posted December 19, 2005 when the Pats won the first SB how many elite players did they have? 537021[/snapback] they had some great players on defense -- milloy was great that year, as was law, mcginest in the latter portions of the season, bruschi, and vrabel. brady was only ok that year too. but the pats that year are really the exception. they were not nearly as talented as the rams, but the coaching was unparalleled. even donohoe said that it was the best coaching job he had ever seen.
Adam Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 i do actually think he's pretty good, but he's got to stay on the field more (i realize that this isn't his decision). more importantly, though, he simply doesn't make the last man miss. the great backs usually can, unless they're absolute bears like bettis or riggins. i think mcgahee has the potential to be an eddie george type, which is pretty darn good, but again, i'd like to seem him force his coaches play him on third down. since i don't think mularkey is an idiot, i suspect there's a good reason why shaud williams is out there. 537033[/snapback] I'm sure that there isn't much left in the tank for him to do that- how many RB's get hit in the backfield as often as he does?
dave mcbride Posted December 19, 2005 Author Posted December 19, 2005 This post is arguing the exact wrong premise. The whole idea behind "We're just a few players away!" is that we can, in fact, add a few "elite" players to the roster and have a good team. The great teams in the league have a solid foundation in addition to their stars, and I think you'd be on much more solid ground arguing that the Bills have neglected that foundation and have instead tried for the elite players. 537016[/snapback] the elite guys are understandably the hardest ones to get, however, and at this point the bills should have a few. the bills do actually have some serviceable foundation players: mcgee, kelsay, troy vincent, fletcher, even josh reed as a 3rd receiver, and gandy as a role playing lineman (the jury is still out on jason peters). it's the lack of the studs that's hurting them, in my opinion.
MRW Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 the elite guys are understandably the hardest ones to get, however, and at this point the bills should have a few. the bills do actually have some serviceable foundation players: mcgee, kelsay, troy vincent, fletcher, even josh reed as a 3rd receiver, and gandy as a role playing lineman (the jury is still out on jason peters). it's the lack of the studs that's hurting them, in my opinion. 537048[/snapback] What I'm struck by on your list is that it only includes 1 D-lineman and 1.5 O-linemen. I think to fairly evaluate whether we have any elite players at skill positions we need 1 or 2 more solid players at least on each line.
KOKBILLS Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 how many elite players are currently on the bills? qb - none ot - none og - none c - none rb - none (mcgahee is definitely not an elite back) wr - none. evans may be, but he's not yet. once he gets a 50 catch season talk to me. te - are you kidding me? dt - none de - one borderline player: shoebel. if pressed, though, i couldn't argue that he's elite lb - without spikes, none (fletcher is pretty good at best) safety - none cb - clements has the potential for elite status, but not this year (he was elite last year). otherwise, none let's now look at the elite players on some good afc teams. ne: brady, dillon (now that he's healthy), branch (one of the most underrated players in the league), ben watson, seymour, vrabel, mcginest, and bruschi. samuel is borderline. pitt: ward, faneca, hartings, farrior, polamalu, hampton, roethlisberger. indy: manning, james, harrison, wayne, clark, corey simon, saturday, tarik glenn, freeney. jax: rashean mathis, mike peterson, henderson, stroud, jimmy smith (still, believe it or not) sd: LT, gates, jamal williams, merriman, their RT (forgot his name), mccardell, brees the bills are so far away it's a joke. 536858[/snapback] I pretty much agree with the basis of your Post, and I definitely know what you're saying...I think the word "elite" can be changed to "Pro-Bowl" calibre though...There are very few elite NFL Players...For example... from your list I would only consider Brady, Bruschi, Fanaca, Hampton, Manning, James, Harrison, Glenn, Freeney, LT, Gates, and Williams as "elite" Players. The rest are very good Players...Pro-Bowlers, or Pro Bowl calibre for certain...but elite? Not quite... That being said as far as the Bills Roster goes certainly TKO would make a list like this when healthy...I think Schobel, Fletcher and McGee are pretty close...Knock Willis all you want, but when the guy has a hole he is very good...And certainly Evans is growing into a very good WR... But like I said, your point is well taken...The Bills definitely need an influx of talent especially along the O-Line, at DT, another edge Pass Rusher (maybe a DE and a OLB), and Safety...It's a tall order no question and the main reason why I feel with a Top 5 Pick likely...a Trade Down to accumulate more Picks will be something the Bills new GM will HAVE to look at...If somehow, someway the Bills can manuver to get 7 Picks in the Top 110 or so, instead of the 5 they will already have, the talent added could launch the Bills right back into contention by no later than 2007...Whoever is making those Picks HAS to get em' right, and HAS to address both interior lines...That much seems to be a given... This is not an impossible task by any means...And though it seems as if the Bills do not have much on paper, with the proper additions through the Draft and Free Agency, along with a fresh start in the Front Office and at HC, what is here now should make a decent base to build from... I know I'm a Bills Fan, and it's easy for me to say...But if I was an up-and-coming GM prospect I would LOVE to get a crack at re-tooling this Team...1st I think I would try like hell to get a HIGH calibre College HC (like Kirk Ferentz maybe) to come to Buffalo (that is if I could not land a HC like Mooch...and as a 1st-time GM-type I think it would be tough to get a Coach like Mooch, or any other with a lot of experience, because they may want TOO much say in personnel decisions)...Then I'd turn my concentration to the Draft and Free Agency to fill in the holes...What more could a 1st time GM ask for?
ganesh Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 You don't need elite playes at different position to be an elite team...What you need is a cohesive group to be an elite team.
KOKBILLS Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 ... but i kind of like mularkey, and have defended him in numerous posts! i also expect him to be the coach next year. if he is, though -- and returning to my original point -- the bills need a serious talent upgrade. they've got some potential excellent players (evans, possibly losman [i wouldn't bet the farm on him, though]). there are ways to think about it constructively too -- there will be some good offensive linemen on the free agent market, and every year some DT stud like shawn rogers talks or eats his way off a team. so there is hope. 536947[/snapback] Well MM may very well be back next year... But whoever makes that decision would be wise to factor in the possibility that IF the Bills struggle again under MM (and let's be realistic...it's a possibility in 2006...is it not?), and look even remotely like they have this year, the outcry from the Fan Base, Local Media, etc. will be at an all time high. Allowing MM to stick it out for one more year may have some logic now, but how will it look next year when it's obvious at that point (again IF they struggle) that he's on the way out? It ain't gonna look pretty...I know that much... I understand the argument about turning a HC after only 2 years...And it is not my preference no matter how I come across...But I'm telling y'all if you have ANY reservations about MM you are 100% better off getting rid of him now, when things are at a severe low, than having to deal with it again at this time next year...From a business standpoint you are looking at the possibility of 2 consecutive years of Season Ticket Sales dropping...And I'm pretty sure if MM is on the chopping block again late next Season there will be a bit of an uproar from the I-told-you-so's who also happen to be the I-buy-seats crowd... I think Bills Fans have an incredible resolve and love for this Team...And I think dispite the major diappointment this year has been, most Season Ticket holders will be willing to give it one more year...ONE more year... I think MM should be replaced because I don't think he's good enough...period...And admittedly that is just my opinion...But no doubt there are factors here that make keeping him a HUGE risk from a Public relations standpoint...And especially if you feel this Team is still a year or two away from contention... It's funny (well not really funny but... ) because the main argument for Mularkey HAS to be the lack of talent overall on this Roster...But without a HUGE turnaround on the Field in 2006, it may very well be that same lack of overall talent that costs Mularkey the chance at keeping his job beyond next Season anyway...Does that not sound logical? Maybe it's not, I don't know...
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