Why I Can't Stand Holcomb at QB

[stuckincincy]

I think you and Peter need to buy a ticket and actually watch Holcomb with a full view of the field.  He is a gutless POS when the chips are down.  The QB's job is not just to get the ball to the athletes, it's to get them the ball where they have a good chance to succeed.  Once defenses adjust to the Bills initial offensive gameplan, those wide open receivers he loves so much, suddenly become guys who need a good throw to make a play.  He can't pull the trigger.  In that regard he IS Rob Johnson all over again, the  difference being that he isn't as tough as the immortal RJ and let's someone else take the hit for him and will continue collecting paychecks as a journeyman loser because of it.

536058[/snapback]

 

Perhaps you are comparing apples to oranges. My post clearly referred to Holcomb in the role of a back-up, and entertained the possibility that some team (assumedly out of necessity) would consider him a starter.

 

Whom do you feel the Bills should have obtained to back up JPL this season? Or should they have stayed with Matthews who was at the tme, IIRC, vacillating?

[Adam]

I think you and Peter need to buy a ticket and actually watch Holcomb with a full view of the field.  He is a gutless POS when the chips are down.  The QB's job is not just to get the ball to the athletes, it's to get them the ball where they have a good chance to succeed.  Once defenses adjust to the Bills initial offensive gameplan, those wide open receivers he loves so much, suddenly become guys who need a good throw to make a play.  He can't pull the trigger.  In that regard he IS Rob Johnson all over again, the  difference being that he isn't as tough as the immortal RJ and let's someone else take the hit for him and will continue collecting paychecks as a journeyman loser because of it.

536058[/snapback]

He has some athletic limitations, but your insinuation that he is gutless in completely baseless

[Kelly the Dog]

He has some athletic limitations, but your insinuation that he is gutless in completely baseless

536373[/snapback]

I don't want to put words in his mouth but I believe that he means he is gutless in his decisions, not his manlihood. He won't try to make a play and go downfield and be the man, but would rather just dump it off and get a few yards and hope someone else makes the play.

 

I agree with Badol. I think we knew all we needed to know about Holcomb when he said he's content to be the back-up. I think we knew all we needed to know about him when he said something about, "sure you feel pressure and look over your shoulder" (when asked about being pulled). That, to me, screams back-up. That, to me, screams that the guy doesn't have the sack to be a starter in this league. That is precisely why he's a journeyman and a back-up. If he had the confidence necessary to be a starter at the toughest position in the toughest sport in the world, he wouldn't be looking over his shoulder. He would be looking downfield past the first down marker to make a play.

[Peter]

Anybody who willingly stands behind our offensive line, by definition, has a lot of guts.

[Orton's Arm]

Holcomb can't wait to get rid of the ball.  He CAN'T WAIT to get it out of his hands.  Think Joey Harrington with accuracy.

I agree with this. A QB is supposed to have a clock in his head. Once that clock goes off, he's supposed to get rid of the ball. RJ's biggest problem was that he lacked this clock.

 

Let's say you were a QB that had the misfortune of playing behind what TD strangely insists on calling an o-line. Should the clock in your head be faster or slower than it would have been had you been playing behind New England's line?

[Orton's Arm]

I don't want to put words in his mouth but I believe that he means he is gutless in his decisions, not his manlihood. He won't try to make a play and go downfield and be the man, but would rather just dump it off and get a few yards and hope someone else makes the play.

Keyshawn Johnson had similar complaints about Neil O'Donnell. Holcomb is an O'Donnell-like QB in that he manages the game and takes care of the football. If you had a good defense and a good running game . . .

I agree with Badol. I think we knew all we needed to know about Holcomb when he said he's content to be the back-up.

Holcomb wanted to be a starter, but nobody wanted him in that role. He came to Buffalo with the understanding that he'd be the backup. Had he started screaming, "Bench Losman and put me in there," people would rightly complain that he was disrupting team chemistry. He has expressed frustration that his quality of play hasn't earned him more opportunities, but it sounded to me less like a man trying to get Losman benched, and more like a guy who just wanted to start somewhere.

[MDH]

Keyshawn Johnson had similar complaints about Neil O'Donnell. Holcomb is an O'Donnell-like QB in that he manages the game and takes care of the football. If you had a good defense and a good running game . . .

somewhere.

536438[/snapback]

 

 

If a team has a good D and a good running game ANY QB can lead a team to wins by not making mistakes, just check out Orton in Chicago. Checking down, dumping it off and punting on nearly every drive isn't indicitive of quality QB play. At some point a QB has to make some plays to help your team win. Holcomb doesn't do that.

[Orton's Arm]

If a team has a good D and a good running game ANY QB can lead a team to wins by not making mistakes, just check out Orton in Chicago.  Checking down, dumping it off and punting on nearly every drive isn't indicitive of quality QB play.  At some point a QB has to make some plays to help your team win.  Holcomb doesn't do that.

And yet he once again led the Bills to 17 points on a day when the running game wasn't there. Is Holcomb good enough to mask this team's manifold glaring weaknesses? No. But that doesn't make him a bad QB.

[Kelly the Dog]

Keyshawn Johnson had similar complaints about Neil O'Donnell. Holcomb is an O'Donnell-like QB in that he manages the game and takes care of the football. If you had a good defense and a good running game . . .

 

Holcomb wanted to be a starter, but nobody wanted him in that role. He came to Buffalo with the understanding that he'd be the backup. Had he started screaming, "Bench Losman and put me in there," people would rightly complain that he was disrupting team chemistry. He has expressed frustration that his quality of play hasn't earned him more opportunities, but it sounded to me less like a man trying to get Losman benched, and more like a guy who just wanted to start somewhere.

536438[/snapback]

1. But we don't. And O'Donnell would, occasionally, go downfield, and could go downfield. And he would definitely go for the first down when he needed it. Too often, Holcomb checks down on third down too quickly, or throws a pass that has one in ten chance of getting a first down. It looks good in stats but doesn't do the team much good.

 

2. No, no one would guarantee him that role. he had a much greater chance to start in Cleveland than he did in Buffalo. He didn't need to complain, he didnt need to say "Bench Losman", but he also didn't need to for all intents and purposes say he was happy with being a back-up. And he surely didnt need to either look over his shoulder, or say he would look over his shoulder. That is a back-up's mentality. That is a Holcomb and RJ mentality. You would never hear Kelly or Favre or likely even Losman say something or even think something like that.

[Orton's Arm]

1. But we don't. And O'Donnell would, occasionally, go downfield, and could go downfield. And he would definitely go for the first down when he needed it. Too often, Holcomb checks down on third down too quickly, or throws a pass that has one in ten chance of getting a first down. It looks good in stats but doesn't do the team much good.

I think a lot of what you're seeing is due to the offensive line just not giving him any time to throw. Now, you say there have been plays when he did have time, but got rid of the ball quickly anyway. And that's true. But with Bennie Anderson helping protect his blind side, he has to expect the worst.

 

2. No, no one would guarantee him that role. he had a much greater chance to start in Cleveland than he did in Buffalo. He didn't need to complain, he didnt need to say "Bench Losman", but he also didn't need to for all intents and purposes say he was happy with being a back-up. And he surely didnt need to either look over his shoulder, or say he would look over his shoulder. That is a back-up's mentality. That is a Holcomb and RJ mentality. You would never hear Kelly or Favre or likely even Losman say something or even think something like that.

As for looking over his shoulder, I think that's a natural response to the merry-go-round he and Couch were on in Cleveland. An experience like that causes you to become more jaded and less trusting. I don't know the details of why he chose Buffalo over Cleveland, nor what Cleveland did or didn't promise him. I haven't heard Holcomb say he'd be content to be a career backup, in fact I've heard him say the opposite. But he's said that he accepts his role here in Buffalo, which is to come in if Losman gets hurt, or if the team needs a spark.

[MDH]

I think a lot of what you're seeing is due to the offensive line just not giving him any time to throw. Now, you say there have been plays when he did have time, but got rid of the ball quickly anyway. And that's true. But with Bennie Anderson helping protect his blind side, he has to expect the worst.

 

536468[/snapback]

 

Holcomb had plenty of time to throw on Saturday night that excuse just doesn't fly, particularly in the face of the fact that Losman throws the ball down field, even when he's getting little to no protection.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Holcomb has looked much better than JP. 

535829[/snapback]

 

You'd better look again.

 

By the way, how'd your boy Bledsoe look yesterday? Same old Drew, different team.

[UConn James]

1. But we don't. And O'Donnell would, occasionally, go downfield, and could go downfield. And he would definitely go for the first down when he needed it. Too often, Holcomb checks down on third down too quickly, or throws a pass that has one in ten chance of getting a first down. It looks good in stats but doesn't do the team much good.

536457[/snapback]

 

'"That's been the story of our season," Bills quarterback Kelly Holcomb said. "We move the ball, then at crucial times we do something that's not smart. Those guys are division leaders over there. It's enough just to beat those guys, but when we beat ourselves, we give ourselves no chance."'

 

I put this through the Bledsoe filter, and look what came up:

 

"That's been the story of the games I've played in," Bills back-up quarterback Kelly Holcomb said. "We move the ball up until the red zone, then at crucial times, I do something that's not smart. Like throw a 2-yard pass on 3rd and 10 or 3rd and 25 or 3rd and 8. Those guys [the Broncos] are division leaders over there, which is something we probably won't see for a while with our combination of GM, coaching staff and players. It's enough just to beat those guys, but when I make decisions that beat ourselves, such as throwing a 2-yard pass on 3rd and 10 or 3rd and 25 or 3rd and 8, and just generally being unwilling to throw the ball down the field when we need it, I give my team no chance."

 

"I look at my statline and see 17/20, and I'm like DoubleU-Tee-Eff? I should be a starter in this league! What does it matter that I can't lead the team to the W? This is my team when I'm in there."

[Ramius]

And yet he once again led the Bills to 17 points on a day when the running game wasn't there. Is Holcomb good enough to mask this team's manifold glaring weaknesses? No. But that doesn't make him a bad QB.

536451[/snapback]

 

I wouldnt say he LED us to 17 points. Has holcomb thrown a TD pass all year that isnt a 10 yard pass with the WR doing the rest of the work? Has he throw a ball that has been caught in the endzone?

[Adam]

I don't want to put words in his mouth but I believe that he means he is gutless in his decisions, not his manlihood. He won't try to make a play and go downfield and be the man, but would rather just dump it off and get a few yards and hope someone else makes the play.

 

536380[/snapback]

I can at least live with that- I knew he shouldnt be the starter when he was in Cleveland- his talent is very limited, but his guts aren't.

 

The guy plays within himself, and is a professional and does what he's asked, whether its start or backup.

[Peter]

You'd better look again.

 

By the way, how'd your boy Bledsoe look yesterday? Same old Drew, different team.

536572[/snapback]

 

You may want to look again.

 

They both have looked much better than JP. I just hope that JP can get it together and that the Bills can finally assemble an o-line that can protect the QB and create running room for our RBs.

[Orton's Arm]

I wouldnt say he LED us to 17 points. Has holcomb thrown a TD pass all year that isnt a 10 yard pass with the WR doing the rest of the work? Has he throw a ball that has been caught in the endzone?

Ah, so when Holcomb throws a pass to a WR that has little to no chance of making something happen after the catch, you blame him for a poor decision. But when other Holcomb passes DO result in YAC, you give all the credit to the receiver.

[Ramius]

Ah, so when Holcomb throws a pass to a WR that has little to no chance of making something happen after the catch, you blame him for a poor decision. But when other Holcomb passes DO result in YAC, you give all the credit to the receiver.

537242[/snapback]

 

Exactly. He does nothing with him throws. Holcombs passing game is entirely based on the hope that the WR can do something after the catch. throw it 2 yards of 4th down, hope the WR can run for the first down. Toss it 4 yards, hope the WR can run it into the endzone. Its about time he nutted up and attempted a pass to a WR that wasnt wide open.

 

Against denver, 27 or holcomb's 37 pass attempts were 5 yards from the LOS or less. Thats the most telling stat right there.

That and the fact that aside from moulds 9 catches, 8 went to RB's/FB's and 5 went to other WR's. This tells me holcomb looks for moulds, and if options #1 isnt open, then its check down time for 3 yards.