KD in CA Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 It's just a hypothetical showing that skilled positions are more important than O-linemen. 535642[/snapback] The answer to your question is that in neither scenario would you have a team capable of winning a championship. No one has argued that it is MORE important to have a better OL than skill players. The argument is that you can't fail to develop a decent OL and expect to compete at a playoff level.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 watch the patriots. their linemen are true journeymen at best, but they're surrounded by excellent skill players and a great scheme that minimizes their weaknesses. Don't kid yourself. Dante Scarnecchia is THE best O-line coach in the NFL. When the O-line was having problems in the middle of the season, Brady looked like crap because he was constantly getting harrassed. Against the Bills and Bucs yesterday, he was barely touched. It's the O-line. Always was and always will be.
Typical TBD Guy Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 And this is why I wouldn't complain at all if we took Leinart, or the best WR in the draft. 535639[/snapback] For much of the past 5 years (and past 3 in particular), Tom Donahoe has been pandering to Buffalo fans like you. How far has it gotten us? 2005 Record: 4-10 and falling... Enough already. We need to spend close to 100% of this coming year's draft picks exclusively on the OL and DL. And as far as free agency is concerned, I wouldn't waste much money on any of the non-line positions outside a WR to possibly replace Moulds and/or a CB to possibly replace Clements. No joke. Every other position on this team is currently serviceable except for T, G, C, DE (Schobel is a #2 DE and nothing more), and DT...ok, and maybe SS and FS too .
Bill from NYC Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 With all the talk about how desperately we need to upgrade the o-line and we better not take skill position players I'd offer this hypothetical. . . Would our current team be better if we had Indy's entire o-line rather than our o-line and our current skill position players. . . OR would our current team be better with Peyton Manning at QB, Edge at RB, Harrison & Wayne at WR behind our CURRENT O-line? I have a feeling our O-line would look a heck of a lot better with those skilled people. Our team would clearly be better with Indy's skilled guys vs. Indy's O-Line. So, while we all howl for major upgrades on the O-line, let's not forget that our skill positions could stand an upgrade (especially when Moulds leaves) too! 535638[/snapback] You are correct, and are making a ton of sense. I hope that whoever is GM in 06 reads this and drafts rbs, wideouts, and perhaps an early round qb. Maybe we can trade down for more picks, and draft even more skill players. As for free agents, yes, he should also take the same route and shun blockers and DTs at any and all costs. Good post.
shagmago Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 With all the talk about how desperately we need to upgrade the o-line and we better not take skill position players I'd offer this hypothetical. . . Would our current team be better if we had Indy's entire o-line rather than our o-line and our current skill position players. . . OR would our current team be better with Peyton Manning at QB, Edge at RB, Harrison & Wayne at WR behind our CURRENT O-line? I have a feeling our O-line would look a heck of a lot better with those skilled people. Our team would clearly be better with Indy's skilled guys vs. Indy's O-Line. So, while we all howl for major upgrades on the O-line, let's not forget that our skill positions could stand an upgrade (especially when Moulds leaves) too! 535638[/snapback] Disagree 1000%.the o-line is more important then anyhting else in football .Without that .....well...you have the lowly pathetic Bills.
Sound_n_Fury Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 On a related note, the Pats secondary has been decimated by injuries. Yet, they somehow seem to get the job done. The Pats coaching staff is outstanding. 535834[/snapback] Didn't our DB coach come from the Pats? Must be the water around here....
RunTheBall Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 And this is why I wouldn't complain at all if we took Leinart, or the best WR in the draft. . . by the way, who would that be? I think tonight showed that Evans is a good #2 WR, but should never be confused with a #1. 535639[/snapback] Wow, and some people say we have some of the more intelligent fans. Holy crap. RTB
Clockwork Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 We are going to bring in a new GM and coach, they are going to think JP is a punk, and we are going to draft a QB. I don't want it to happen that way, but I think it will be like that.
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 We are going to bring in a new GM and coach, they are going to think JP is a punk, and we are going to draft a QB. I don't want it to happen that way, but I think it will be like that. 535897[/snapback] if thats what the new gm and coach decide is in the best interest of the buffalo bills so be it. I have no loyalty to a paticular person I just want to see this team win. Whether it's with JP Losman or Joe Schmoe.
macaroni Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 IMHO ........ what this team needs more than an upgrade in the skill positions OR an upgrade of the O-line is to develop a "personality". Figure out what they want to focus on, and game plan and practice and draft accordingly. What I'm saying is ...... if we decide we are going to be a smash mouth running team (ala da' bears & steelers), we need to BE a smash mouth running team. We need to force our opponents to not only put 7 or 8 men at the line of scrimage, but make them cheat the remaining 3 or 4 towards the LOS to stop the run. We need to "bash and smash" straight ahead helmet to helmet, manno a manno, until the passing game opens up. if we decide to be a finesse running team (ala the Chargers) we need to be a little bit quicker, more elusive, more athletic. Run the sweeps, throw the screens and quick outs that spread the opponents from side to side ..... but we HAVE to continue doing that until the defense is paper thin up the middle and no longer covering the long routes. If we want to be a "bombs away" (ala the Colts) we need a brick wall line that refuses to let anyone past them, once we establish the downfield pass, we have to beat the opponent over the head with it until they couldn't even fathom covering a run at the LOS. Bottom line .... the point I'm trying to make is we need to do one thing, and one thing only, we have to do it well, we have to make our opponents fear whatever it is ........ once we get to that point ...... the opponents will "give us" the other aspects of the game. IMHO ...... our Bills were in trouble 5 years ago .... cap space and age wise, we HAD to clean house, and we did. What the problem is, TD etal tried to "get better" all at once by plugging in a "skill player" here and there, and a new coachs and assistants. They didn't have a cogent blueprint to rebuild the team (as a matter of fact they refused to even admit we were rebuilding), they didn't have a vision of what they wanted to build ...... When all is said and done, and the dust of this season settles ..... we stink, and STILL don't have a direction that we're going toward improvement.
shagmago Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 We are going to bring in a new GM and coach, they are going to think JP is a punk, and we are going to draft a QB. I don't want it to happen that way, but I think it will be like that. 535897[/snapback] We can only hope!!!...JP is 1-7 and only a skateboad and a joint away from being a 4th stringer type!
Sound_n_Fury Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 All the units have to work together to be effective. Take away the threat of a passing game (like JP in most of his early games) and the D will negate any running ability a team has. An average o-line will look pretty good if a QB can read d-schemes and release the ball quickly (like Manning and Brady can do) and keep the defense from stacking 8-men in the box. The whole thing revolves around minimizing mistakes and making the defense guess what the O is doing...neither of which the Bills do well.
The Jokeman Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 Amazing how the Pats constantly find 5th and 6th round college guys to come in and fill the void for their team. Nor 1st round draft picks. Guys with smarts, the will to learn and play hard and they coach them well. Tom Brady makes them look great. I don't think our OL is as bad as some say. If our QBs make some passes, RBs run a little better and the WRs catch balls thrown their way things change pretty quickly. And the play calling could sure be better. Our coaches out think themselves too often. Remember the "our OL is so bad" claims when RJ was QB. Well the same OL went from having the most sacked QB to the least sacked QB in a week with a QB replacement. That one replacement was Flutie. So your point on the post does have some merit. 535837[/snapback] Conversely most feel that the Defense is the strength the Patriots. In looking at their D they have three 1st Rounders on the D-line, one 1st Rounder, two 3rd Rounders and one 4th Rounder in their LB core. In other words six of their defenisve front seven are first day picks ie not in the defensive backfield (skilled position).
obie_wan Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 the pats offense is pretty much unstoppable with truly mediocre offensive line talent (half their line is injured too). 535825[/snapback] which highlights the importance of coaching. our coaches can't identify schemes which fit the personnel. not to mention our OL are soft and stupid. Many teams suffer key injuries but somehow survive. The Bills couldn't get it together from day 1.
BuffOrange Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 Of course you're forgetting the fact that with Indy you're talking about 3 future HoFers. Everything being equal a good Oline will make average/good skill position players look great. Good skill position players end up looking bad behind a bad Oline. 535708[/snapback] Yes
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 No one has argued that it is MORE important to have a better OL than skill players.535845[/snapback] I'll argue that. I'll argue it with two words: Baltimore Ravens.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 We can only hope!!!...JP is 1-7 and only a skateboad and a joint away from being a 4th stringer type! 535908[/snapback] Piss off. The team is 4-10, they wouldn't have won the KC game without Losman (thus the one credited win is BS) and your assessment sucks. Go root for Flutie or something. He just wins, after all, all on his own. We should have such an awesome QB who does it all singlehandedly.
East Brady Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 I don't know, if we had those three, I think we'd probably win even with our OL. Sanders never had an OL and he did great. Rice was great at catching the short passes and making big plays, and Montana was great at getting him the ball. In this case, I think we'd be ok. 535742[/snapback] And somehow you have left out that little detail.......Roger Craig sure looked great running through those monster holes made by that same offensive line you just short changed.
Fezmid Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 And somehow you have left out that little detail.......Roger Craig sure looked great running through those monster holes made by that same offensive line you just short changed. 536171[/snapback] Woah buddy, how did I shortchange anyone??? I simply said if we had those three players, I don't think we'd need to upgrade our OL. That's it.
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