How Do Other Teams Treat Their Senior Leaders?

[JDG]

One thing about the Bills under the Donahoe era is that there has been very little stability in the roster. Indeed, although the Bills last beat the Patriots in Foxboro five years ago - only one player remains from that team, Eric Moulds. Eric Moulds has clearly shown himself to be one of this team's veteran leaders, and is well-respected by his teammates.

 

This year, a bunch of bean counters have looked at Moulds' cap figure and the decline in his statistical performance, and have argued that Moulds absolutely needs to be jettisoned. Given the way Mularkey decided to make an example of Eric Moulds for some ill-tempered sideline comments, suggests that the Bills Leaderhip also views Moulds' veteran leadership as being eminently expendable.

 

I thought it would be interesting, however, to compare the Moulds situation to the way another team is handling a veteran of similar age who arguably has a cap figure in excess of his statiscal performance for the past year - a statistical performance that arguably suffered due to incompetance at the QB position. Oh, and I might point out, that this is also from a team that is substantially *over* the 2006 salary cap at this time, rather than being substantially *under* the cap like the Buffalo Bills.

 

Here's an interesting quote from an article on the Jets. In addition to Herman Edwards' comments, I think that it is interesting to note that the Jets have created the environment where Curtis Martin would say the sorts of things he says here.....

 

What would that mean for Martin, who's due to count $8.1 million on the salary cap in 2006?

 

Martin, who declined to talk about anything contractually (a pay cut or a renegotiation), made one thing perfectly clear: He has no interest in playing elsewhere.

 

"I'd rather be here than anywhere else, I know that much," he said. "I don't know what my role would be, but I'd rather be here. I'd even rather lose with the Jets than win with someone else.

 

"I wouldn't want to play for anyone else. The Colts, I would rather play here this year with a 3-10 team than to be with the Colts right now. The Jets, they've been good to me, and I appreciate them. I don't know what will happen, but I do see myself back here."

 

Herman Edwards was adamant about Martin remaining a Jet, too.

 

"By no stretch of the imagination is Curtis Martin in my mind out of our plans," Edwards said. "He needs to be a Jet for as long as he wants to be a Jet. That's the coach's opinion now, and I think he will be."

 

Martin, asked if he could accept a diminished role as a mentor and a part-time runner if the Jets opted to bring a young stud aboard, said, "I wouldn't see myself that way, but if I was in that situation I can handle it. I don't see myself in that situation but I wouldn't be opposed to it."

 

Maybe this is one of the reasons why the Jets have 1 division title, 3 playoff appearances, and 2 playoff wins in the last four years (in the same division with the Patriots), while the Bills have four years of futility?

 

JDG

[nick in* england]

The point you make about Moulds being a leader hasn't shown to be true IMO. You look at the team and nobody exhaults Moulds like they did TKO. I think EM's exhaulted status came to an end with the TKO era.

 

Power shifted in the locker room to the D - and they we get Milloy and Vincent and Bledsoe who essentially stole his thunder.

 

The writing has been on the wall for Moulds for a season or two IMO - he's had enough of Buffalo and Bills football and wants a fair weather team in the hope he get a Superbowl shot in the 2-4years left in his career.

 

 

As for the continuity issue - I agree - I think the players who wanted to stay but we let go (PW, JJ, DB) we should have retained with hindsight...

[Lofton80]

Having had many opportunities to watch Moulds with his teammates on the practice field at St. John Fisher, I have to disagree. he is clearly a leader and obviously well liked. One of the guys he interacts with the most is in fact Takeo Spikes. I also have met him more than once at functions and he comes across as a natural leader to me as does Spikes.

[nick in* england]

Having had many opportunities to watch Moulds with his teammates on the practice field at St. John Fisher, I have to disagree. he is clearly a leader and obviously well liked. One of the guys he interacts with the most is in fact Takeo Spikes. I also have met him more than once at functions and he comes across as a natural leader to me as does Spikes.

533973[/snapback]

OK - consider me chastised. I am wrong. Thanks for putting me straight.

[34-78-83]

Having had many opportunities to watch Moulds with his teammates on the practice field at St. John Fisher, I have to disagree. he is clearly a leader and obviously well liked. One of the guys he interacts with the most is in fact Takeo Spikes. I also have met him more than once at functions and he comes across as a natural leader to me as does Spikes.

533973[/snapback]

 

I would agree with this, and also add (to the sighs of many I'm sure) that MM and Moulds have a much better relationship than you think. They both have stated that the issue has been put to bed and that they are on the same page again. Sure there have been frustrations by both against each other, but I think both sides warranted frustration in that situation.

[Rubes]

As for the continuity issue - I agree - I think the players who wanted to stay but we let go (PW, JJ, DB) we should have retained with hindsight...

533971[/snapback]

 

 

JJ wanted to stay?

[silvermike]

Then there's the Patriots, of course, who have cut/let go most of their key leadership: Lawyer Milloy, Ty Law, and Troy Brown is back only after he couldn't sell his services elsewhere.

[Tortured Soul]

I like the overall point, but I think this comparison is poor. As much as you want to pin it on the Bills, it works both ways. Martin is willing to accept a substantial pay cut. Moulds, it seems, isn't (but who knows?). Second, Moulds still envisions himself as a starter, and rightfully so. Martin does not.

[Ramius]

Martin is willing to accept a substantial pay cut. 

534011[/snapback]

 

he is?

 

Martin, who declined to talk about anything contractually (a pay cut or a renegotiation)

[Tortured Soul]

he is?

534038[/snapback]

Yes. He just didn't want to give up all leverage in this interview. He did say that he wants to stay with the Jets, knowing how far they will be over the cap. Put it together.

[Orton's Arm]

Good leaders lead by example. Has Moulds really been leading by example this year?

[drnykterstein]

The point you make about Moulds being a leader hasn't shown to be true IMO. You look at the team and nobody exhaults Moulds like they did TKO. I think EM's exhaulted status came to an end with the TKO era.

I know this was already addressed. I'm not going to dig up any articles or anything but time after time I see nothing but respect for Moulds and his leadership. He really is looked up to in that locker room. TKO does not detract from that at all.

[obie_wan]

Then there's the Patriots, of course, who have cut/let go most of their key leadership: Lawyer Milloy, Ty Law, and Troy Brown is back only after he couldn't sell his services elsewhere.

534001[/snapback]

 

 

maybe the Pats didn't consider them "key" or "leaders" when they were let go?

[obie_wan]

Yes.  He just didn't want to give up all leverage in this interview.  He did say that he wants to stay with the Jets, knowing how far they will be over the cap.  Put it together.

534045[/snapback]

 

 

he is probably looking for a Drew Bledsoe pay cut, so he can expect anohter 6 million in cash bonus

[Dawgg]

Post of the month.

 

Well done, JDG.

 

One thing about the Bills under the Donahoe era is that there has been very little stability in the roster.  Indeed, although the Bills last beat the Patriots in Foxboro five years ago - only one player remains from that team, Eric Moulds.  Eric Moulds has clearly shown himself to be one of this team's veteran leaders, and is well-respected by his teammates.

 

This year, a bunch of bean counters have looked at Moulds' cap figure and the decline in his statistical performance, and have argued that Moulds absolutely needs to be jettisoned.    Given the way Mularkey decided to make an example of Eric Moulds for some ill-tempered sideline comments, suggests that the Bills Leaderhip also views Moulds' veteran leadership as being eminently expendable.

 

I thought it would be interesting, however, to compare the Moulds situation to the way another team is handling a veteran of similar age who arguably has a cap figure in excess of his statiscal performance for the past year - a statistical performance that arguably suffered due to incompetance at the QB position.    Oh, and I might point out, that this is also from a team that is substantially *over* the 2006 salary cap at this time, rather than being substantially *under* the cap like the Buffalo Bills.

 

Here's an interesting quote from an article on the Jets.  In addition to Herman Edwards' comments, I think that it is interesting to note that the Jets have created the environment where Curtis Martin would say the sorts of things he says here.....

 

Maybe this is one of the reasons why the Jets have 1 division title, 3 playoff appearances, and 2 playoff wins in the last four years (in the same division with the Patriots), while the Bills have four years of futility?

 

JDG

533962[/snapback]

[Ray]

Moulds is THE leader on this team all is very well respected by his teammates. Did you pay attention whatsoever to the events of last week? The players really responded well to their coach huh? Being a tough guy when you're MM does not work. Maybe if he wins a couple of SB's (it won't be with the Bills), he can act a bit tougher. He has created a soft, resentful team right now who has quit on him.

[Lori]

Then there's the Patriots, of course, who have cut/let go most of their key leadership: Lawyer Milloy, Ty Law, and Troy Brown is back only after he couldn't sell his services elsewhere.

534001[/snapback]

On the other hand, players like Bruschi, Light, and even Brady have taken a 'hometown discount' to stay in Foxborough. As noted by the Jedi, a couple of posts above this one - Belichick may have a different list of "key leadership" players than the rest of us...

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

First off JDG, thanks for some great research and thoughtful comments. I think this issue about how the Bills and TD deal with leadership are actually keys as best as I can tell to the Bills implosion this year and the production of a piss poor record.

 

My sense is that among the lead factors in producing this record which should be noted are:

 

1. 10 of 11 guys are back on a D which was quite productive the last two years ranking statistically sixth and then second among NFL teams. Even for those who do see the loss of Phat Pat as a real reason for this downturn, it clearly cannot be the only explanation for why this D has been so bad this year.

 

Even with the loss of TKO, this D simply failed to produce in the 2-1/2 games before his injury and Crowell has been no TKO but has been a reasonable replacement whose play with the unit does not add up to our horrib;e results.

 

If the loss of Phat Pat and TKO is only a part (an important part. but only a part of the explanation for our horrible play then what explains the rest? To me it is a question of how the braintrust has dealt with the vets and whether this team is in fact a TEAM.

 

2, The Bills have continually failed to show a killer instinct getting off to fabulous starts (even with the spotty results overall from JP we have a very good record of getting scores on the first drives and point in the first qusrter) only to see us fail to put up points to seal the game at crunch time or the D stop the other team and give the ball to WM to run out the clock.

 

Even the one game we really did this where Schobel pulled down a great INT on Rosenfels, it merely made our breakdown even more tragic as we failed to stick a knife in a Fins team who we had down 21-0 in the blink of an eye.

 

This game and horrors like the failure to capitalize on a good play by Holcomb in the first Pats game strike me as a showing by the Bills of our failure to build a TEAM that wins games instead of a team that simply takes the field.

 

JDG I think your argument does have a couple of tragic flaws (holding the Jets up as the way to do things right is a dubious proposition even despite them having a better record of playoffs appearances - not hard to do- than the Bills in the TD error). However, just because I degree with some of your assessment of what is a good method being correct does not mean that I also think that your assessment of the Bills is wrong.

 

Jets aside the point that the key to the Bills probs in my mnd has been poor leadership and management of the TEAM is right on target IMHO.

 

To me, I would not several signal events as real indicators of our problems:

 

1. TD made a huge mistake choosing GW over Fox and Lewis when he was hiring his first HC.

 

The proof in the pudding when one compares the records achieved by Fox and Lewis in their careers with equally bad and probably worse teams compared to what GW achieved with the Bills. Even those who want to pretend that the key to this was Lewis (and his wife) did not want to come here are ignoring the fact that TD and the rules at the time preventing ACs from negotiating until after the SB was done made the Bills HC job the only opening available.

 

Was Buffalo Lewis' first choice? Nah, almost definitely not. Would he have come here if TD went after him as this was the only HC job available at the time. Almost certainly. Even if one judges Lewis to be a bad choice (a decision which looks dumb if what you care most about is winning since he has proven to be a winning HC with the Bengals) that is fine because it still leaves this advocate with necessity of justifying GW as a better choice than Fox which the Lewis complainers convenently let slide.

 

The initial TD error was picking an HC he knew he could beat in a fight if it came down to a Ciwher situation rather than picking an HC who could suceed.

 

2. The Larry Centers cut was not the key to the Bills keeping better players or lesser players. However, to me it presents a clear-cut example of how TD has put more of a priority on maintaining his personal power and authority over the HC than he has making sure this team is a united TEAM.

 

To remind folks about this footnote episode. Centers had spent a couple of seasons with the Bills and showed himself to be a TEAM leader. He showed that the on field production he had exhibited in his long career leading to him having caught more passes than any other FB to take the field where not gone. He proved to be a major receiving threat for both RJ and Bledsoe I think easily rigning up over 30 catches a season (and I think I vaguely remember him getting about 50 catches his best year).

 

Add to this that not only did Centers remain a receiving threat but he remained among the best at blitz pick-up (a role he was forced to play all too often behind an inexperienced Bills OL in 2002- deapite the many sacks that year the O was still productive) but he also demonstrated that he was also a change-up rushing threat putting up a couple of 40+ runs which were the longest he ever achieved as a pro.

 

Add to this, that he even showed up GW airhorn foolishness when GW tried to asset himself over the team by requiring every Bill to be there for the "voluntary" mini-camps publicly. Centers responded publicly by saying that he had a clear demonstated record as a player of showing up for camp in top shape ready to go when camp began. He understood that some players (particularly youngsters) needed to show up but the HC needed to talk with him if he was going to propose one-size-fits-all dictums because he was not going to interuppt his training regime which had worked or give away his family time.

 

GW and he talked and in general GW backed down.

 

Nevertheless. when the 2002 season ended, GW publicly announcd that though there was debate about the Bills 2003 FB plans that Centers would remain a Bill as long as he wanted to be one.

 

Within days. Centers was cut and Gash was signed.

 

In my mind this move put GW in his place which was clearly not TD's GM place.

 

I like Sam Gash and he is the type of pass catching change-up FB we needed with TH. However, I think again the proof is in the pudding that this was a better O with Centers providing the change-up of top notch FB pass-catching than it was with Gash providing the change-up with top notch FB blocking.

 

In my mind TD cut a player team leader to prove his cojones were bigger than GWs and the Bills suffered for it.

 

I don't know what role Kevin Killdrive played in this drama, but one of our great failings in 2003 was that GW did not exercise good control over Killdrive and force him to diversify his failed O when other teams had clearly caught on to what we were going to do. This event may have been a true sign of GW having lost all control of "his" O.

 

3. The real irony is that I fear the real sign of our immediate issues in theMM reign or error was actually the cut of bobby Shaw last year.

 

One of the things which was hard for me to understand last year was how the Bills sudden turnaround from a dismal start (0-4 beginning) ended up with seven wins a row up to our failure in the last game and missing the playoffs by 1 game seemed to coincide with the cut of Bobby Shaw being the only personnel change of note before the winning streak.

 

There were other major changes around this time (mosty notably TH sitting down and WM taking the RB role), but even this RB switch did not seem coincide with events on the field as closely as the coincidence of the Shaw cut.

 

Wasit mere coincidence or did something meaningful to team performance occur with this cut?

 

It clearly was not on field personnel improvement that made the difference the same personnel for the most part simply performed better. Shaw was not involved by the choice of who got sent in off the becnh during the intial losses and he was not on the field during the winning streak because he was gone from the team. Though the individual players were the same those players had improved performance.

 

Shaw was generally considered to be a good teammate who took his diminished role quietly and waited his chance if injury provided one. Despite not being a cancer he was not contributing. The MM cut of Shaw sent the message to all players that unless they were contributing on the field they may well might get cut.

 

This move provided no financial gain to Ralph as after Shaw was on the roster for two games Ralph had to pay him for a full season whether he was cut or not.

 

My sense is that the Shaw cut did provide a great short-term benefit for the Bills. The players got the message that they had to contribute to this team one way or the other or they might get cut. This greater focus potentially led to the Bills players making a marginally bigger effort after the Shaw cut and in the tight world of NFL competition where there really is only a small difference between winners and losers this made the difference in the Bills pulling off the winning streak.

 

However, it now appears there was a long-term cost to this short-term gain last year.

 

It reminded the players that when push came to shove this was just a business and though it would be nice they were not a family and really not a TEAM It was everyman for himself in this mechanistic world. Merely being a nice guy, not a cancer, and a good teammate was not enough. Shaw got cut.

 

This was quite useful last year as this cut got better performance. However, in the long-run, this was followed by Bledsie getting cut at a financial disadvantage to the team (He still wieghs against our cap this year) and JP was given the job whether he earned on the field or not.

 

Overall, I think the Bills did not produce this year because the braintrust had demonstrated that the focus was on the short-term fortunes of the team first and the medium term fortunes of the team were merely a bridge where we hoped we got lucky and survived JPs grpwomg phase.

 

It became clear to the players that TD had given up on the medium term reality when the team did not deliver in the short-term with a playoff berth last year. Ultimately the braintrust did not keep the faith with the team though the rough times and the team imploded.