George Will on ANWR

[X. Benedict]

I'm as big an environmentalist as anyone.  No one wants clean air, water, and land more than me.  Drilling in ANWR is a HELL of lot more environmentally friendly than drilling in the Soviet Union, South America, or the Middle East and then carting it across the ocean.

 

But what do I know? Oh yeah, I've actually been to ANWR.

534306[/snapback]

 

Just so we are clear, I think we should be drilling the sh.t out of it.

I am much more worried about new landfills proposed to import Canadian garbage into

new Livingston, Wyoming, and Cattaraugus county landfills in new york that

are going to seep into the Allegheny River.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Since I've been there and you haven't, I'm going to defer to myself.

534301[/snapback]

 

Then enlighten me: how isn't it pristine?

 

(Serious question, I'm not being a smartass.)

[Alaska Darin]

Then enlighten me: how isn't it pristine?

 

(Serious question, I'm not being a smartass.)

534393[/snapback]

People live there. There is a water and sewage plant being built just to the north (Barter Island) of where the drilling pad would actually reside. The fact that I've actually been there should be telling enough.

 

Envirowackos act like it's a tremendous destination where they can see unspoiled nature in it's purest form. The truth of the matter is, 10 months of the year the moon is more suited for habitation. Which is the reason pretty much NONE of them have ever been within 300 miles of the place.

 

You're correct on your analysis of what it's really like, though.

[X. Benedict]

People live there.  There is a water and sewage plant being built just to the north (Barter Island) of where the drilling pad would actually reside.  The fact that I've actually been there should be telling enough.

 

Envirowackos act like it's a tremendous destination where they can see unspoiled nature in it's purest form.  The truth of the matter is, 10 months of the year the moon is more suited for habitation. Which is the reason pretty much NONE of them have ever been within 300 miles of the place.

 

You're correct on your analysis of what it's really like, though.

534405[/snapback]

Good one. I never knew people lived there. I knew Carribou occasionally wandered past there. What is the Carribou argument against the drilling?

That they will stop mating?

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Good one. I never knew people lived there. I knew Carribou occasionally wandered past there. What is the Carribou argument against the drilling?

That they will stop mating?

534414[/snapback]

 

Yeah...people will complain about what it does to the caribou, but who give a sh-- about the people?

 

I think the argument is roughly the same as it was for the pipeline: it'll disrupt migration patterns and end the world as we know it for all eternity. Apparently caribou will be so !@#$ing blown away by the post-industrial artistic beauty of the drilling pad they'll forget where they were walking to and drop dead on the spot.

[Wacka]

[X. Benedict]

Yeah...people will complain about what it does to the caribou, but who give a sh-- about the people? 

 

I think the argument is roughly the same as it was for the pipeline: it'll disrupt migration patterns and end the world as we know it for all eternity.  Apparently caribou will be so !@#$ing blown away by the post-industrial artistic beauty of the drilling pad they'll forget where they were walking to and drop dead on the spot.

534419[/snapback]

Man. That sounds like a holocaust. But different. Those post-industrial art drilling flockers

must be stopped or we are doomed to repeat something that happened in the past with other caribou.

[Alaska Darin]

Yeah...people will complain about what it does to the caribou, but who give a sh-- about the people? 

 

I think the argument is roughly the same as it was for the pipeline: it'll disrupt migration patterns and end the world as we know it for all eternity.  Apparently caribou will be so !@#$ing blown away by the post-industrial artistic beauty of the drilling pad they'll forget where they were walking to and drop dead on the spot.

534419[/snapback]

That's correct. Caribou make little Rudolphs in the general vicinity of where the pad will be.

 

Keep in mind that ANWR is the size of South Carolina and the single drilling pad that will be there will be about the size of an average sized American airport. No place left for the caribou with numbers like that.

[GG]

Man. That sounds like a holocaust. But different. Those post-industrial art drilling  flockers

must be stopped or we are doomed to repeat something that happened in the past with other caribou.

534431[/snapback]

 

Is that why Iran is against drilling in ANWAR?

[X. Benedict]

That's correct.  Caribou make little Rudolphs in the general vicinity of where the pad will be.

 

Keep in mind that ANWR is the size of South Carolina

534433[/snapback]

Really?

 

God forbid a caribou can't screw in Myrtle Beach when it can go to Charleston.

[Mickey]

What they don't talk about is the trillions of cubic feet of natural gas that will also be harvested once the oil drilling begins.  Anyone concerned about that going up in price by nearly 100% this winter while Congress pretends that it's a pristine wilderness?

 

533960[/snapback]

The Unites States consumed 22.3 Trillion Cubic Feet of Natural Gas in 2003 while it produced 24 Trillion and imported another 4 Trillion while it exported .5 Trillion.

 

I don't care if they drill the crap out of ANWR but I don't think the amount of gas is the problem when it comes to high prices this winter.

[GG]

I don't care if they drill the crap out of ANWR but I don't think the amount of gas is the problem when it comes to high prices this winter.

534555[/snapback]

 

You will, when that import number keeps climbing every year.

[Alaska Darin]

The Unites States consumed 22.3 Trillion Cubic Feet of Natural Gas in 2003 while it produced 24 Trillion and imported another 4 Trillion while it exported .5 Trillion.

 

I don't care if they drill the crap out of ANWR but I don't think the amount of gas is the problem when it comes to high prices this winter.

534555[/snapback]

 

Then you should do alot more research on the subject, because you're very wrong.

 

BTW, it's no longer 2003. You might want to start with that little factoid.

 

As usual, the liberals and big government proponents have left us in the lurch with their failure to plan and the retardedness of their lemming-like supporters. Keep up the good work, partisans.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Then you should do alot more research on the subject, because you're very wrong.

 

BTW, it's no longer 2003.  You might want to start with that little factoid.

 

As usual, the liberals and big government proponents have left us in the lurch with their failure to plan and the retardedness of their lemming-like supporters.  Keep up the good work, partisans.

534570[/snapback]

 

Let me just quote the first sentence in that first link:

 

"Since Hurricane Katrina swamped a significant portion of the nation's natural gas production..."

 

Now, Mickey...you said:

 

"The Unites States consumed 22.3 Trillion Cubic Feet of Natural Gas in 2003 while it produced 24 Trillion and imported another 4 Trillion while it exported .5 Trillion.

 

I don't care if they drill the crap out of ANWR but I don't think the amount of gas is the problem when it comes to high prices this winter."

 

So let's again review the first sentence in the first link:

 

"Since Hurricane Katrina swamped a significant portion of the nation's natural gas production..."

 

Hmmm...that's interesting. Let's look at those again:

 

"The Unites States consumed 22.3 Trillion Cubic Feet of Natural Gas in 2003 while it produced 24 Trillion and imported another 4 Trillion while it exported .5 Trillion.

 

I don't care if they drill the crap out of ANWR but I don't think the amount of gas is the problem when it comes to high prices this winter."

 

...and...

 

"Since Hurricane Katrina swamped a significant portion of the nation's natural gas production..."

 

Hmmm...VERY interesting. Could it be that, even though

 

"The Unites States consumed 22.3 Trillion Cubic Feet of Natural Gas in 2003 while it produced 24 Trillion and imported another 4 Trillion while it exported .5 Trillion."

 

because

 

"...Hurricane Katrina swamped a significant portion of the nation's natural gas production..."

 

it follows that

 

"the amount of gas is the problem when it comes to high prices this winter"

 

no matter what you

 

"don't think"?

[Chilly]

Let me just quote the first sentence in that first link:

 

"Since Hurricane Katrina swamped a significant portion of the nation's natural gas production..."

 

Now, Mickey...you said:

 

"The Unites States consumed 22.3 Trillion Cubic Feet of Natural Gas in 2003 while it produced 24 Trillion and imported another 4 Trillion while it exported .5 Trillion.

 

I don't care if they drill the crap out of ANWR but I don't think the amount of gas is the problem when it comes to high prices this winter."

 

So let's again review the first sentence in the first link:

 

"Since Hurricane Katrina swamped a significant portion of the nation's natural gas production..."

 

Hmmm...that's interesting.  Let's look at those again:

 

"The Unites States consumed 22.3 Trillion Cubic Feet of Natural Gas in 2003 while it produced 24 Trillion and imported another 4 Trillion while it exported .5 Trillion.

 

I don't care if they drill the crap out of ANWR but I don't think the amount of gas is the problem when it comes to high prices this winter."

 

...and...

 

"Since Hurricane Katrina swamped a significant portion of the nation's natural gas production..."

 

Hmmm...VERY interesting.  Could it be that, even though

 

"The Unites States consumed 22.3 Trillion Cubic Feet of Natural Gas in 2003 while it produced 24 Trillion and imported another 4 Trillion while it exported .5 Trillion."

 

because

 

"...Hurricane Katrina swamped a significant portion of the nation's natural gas production..."

 

it follows that

 

"the amount of gas is the problem when it comes to high prices this winter"

 

no matter what you

 

"don't think"?

534615[/snapback]

 

 

I didn't get it. Can you repeat those again?

[/dev/null]

on this discussion of Liberalism and Environmentalism, i'm suprised that nobody else see's a common solution

 

Environmentalists opposes oil drilling in ANWR. That oil would be used to make gas

Liberalism favors government programs. The biggest government program of them all is Social Security. Social Security is money for old people. Other than collect Social Security, what are old people good at? Producing gas

 

How about linking Social Security checks to how much gas they produce? I bet Old Man Bib can fuel a couple SUVs by himself

[Mickey]

Let me just quote the first sentence in that first link:

 

"Since Hurricane Katrina swamped a significant portion of the nation's natural gas production..."

 

Now, Mickey...you said:

 

"The Unites States consumed 22.3 Trillion Cubic Feet of Natural Gas in 2003 while it produced 24 Trillion and imported another 4 Trillion while it exported .5 Trillion.

 

I don't care if they drill the crap out of ANWR but I don't think the amount of gas is the problem when it comes to high prices this winter."

 

So let's again review the first sentence in the first link:

 

"Since Hurricane Katrina swamped a significant portion of the nation's natural gas production..."

 

Hmmm...that's interesting.  Let's look at those again:

 

"The Unites States consumed 22.3 Trillion Cubic Feet of Natural Gas in 2003 while it produced 24 Trillion and imported another 4 Trillion while it exported .5 Trillion.

 

I don't care if they drill the crap out of ANWR but I don't think the amount of gas is the problem when it comes to high prices this winter."

 

...and...

 

"Since Hurricane Katrina swamped a significant portion of the nation's natural gas production..."

 

Hmmm...VERY interesting.  Could it be that, even though

 

"The Unites States consumed 22.3 Trillion Cubic Feet of Natural Gas in 2003 while it produced 24 Trillion and imported another 4 Trillion while it exported .5 Trillion."

 

because

 

"...Hurricane Katrina swamped a significant portion of the nation's natural gas production..."

 

it follows that

 

"the amount of gas is the problem when it comes to high prices this winter"

 

no matter what you

 

"don't think"?

534615[/snapback]

The article also said:

 

"There's still plenty of natural gas in the United States."

 

And I said that the amount of gas, ie "still plenty" is not the problem. I don't think I was that far off.

 

Katrina is a problem but you'll have to explain to me how drilling in ANWR would have prevented a hurricane or any other natural disaster from disrupting production of things like natural gas. Better yet, explain how it is that a Hurricane effects the amount of natural gas in the ground as opposed to simply posing a short term interruption to production and transport.

 

Things like pipeline capacity from Canada to the US is a bigger problem than the amount of gas. The price of oil is a major issue because a lot of large consumers have the ability to switch from one fuel to another based on prices. If oil gets high enough, they switch to natural gas which challenges the storage and supply system. Terminals being located in areas prone to natural disasters is also an issue as it was with Katrina and the Gulf Coast. Drilling ANWR would resolve none of those problems. Much of Alaska's current production goes to Japan, not New York.

 

As I have stated many, many times, I have no problem turning ANWR into swiss cheese, I just don't think it should be oversold as an answer to our energy problems. Apparenty, even supporting drilling in ANWR makes me a lemming.

[Mickey]

You will, when that import number keeps climbing every year.

534560[/snapback]

Canada, the US and Mexico have large reserves of natural gas and they have an integrated pipeline system to move it around. That is why, strangely, we import from Canada and at the same time, export. Mexico hasn't developed much of its reserves because its cheaper to import from the US. Because the system is integrated, increased supplies anywhere in the system would lower prices but so too would increased pipeline capacities or the construction of additional terminals. Increasing supplies from ANWR wouldn't necessarily cause a siginificant price drop, that could be done just as well from increasing storage space so you have somewhere to put unused summer production that will be needed in the winter.

 

I have a client, a large corporation, that makes its living doing just that, developing underground storage facilities for natural gas where it holds on to the stuff for as long as it takes prices to get where they want them and then they sell it. They buy cheap, stow it, and then sell high. The CEO of the company can hardly stop laughing when you bring up ANWR.

 

It is a pretty complicated business.

[Ghost of BiB]

Canada, the US and Mexico have large reserves of natural gas and they have an integrated pipeline system to move it around.  That is why, strangely, we import from Canada and at the same time, export.  Mexico hasn't developed much of its reserves because its cheaper to import from the US.  Because the system is integrated, increased supplies anywhere in the system would lower prices but so too would increased pipeline capacities or the construction of additional terminals.  Increasing supplies from ANWR wouldn't necessarily cause a siginificant price drop, that could be done just as well from increasing storage space so you have somewhere to put unused summer production that will be needed in the winter.

 

I have a client, a large corporation, that makes its living doing just that, developing underground storage facilities for natural gas where it holds on to the stuff for as long as it takes prices to get where they want them and then they sell it.  They buy cheap, stow it, and then sell high.  The CEO of the company can hardly stop laughing when you bring up ANWR.

 

It is a pretty complicated business.

534799[/snapback]

 

It's also a racket. When I ran the dirt burning plant, I had to hedge gas through HESS out of the Henry Hub. There's just about no way for the utility folks to ever lose money. I had to actually pay for gas I had hedged, that I didn't burn, plus about 4$ per decatherm penalty.

[Mickey]

It's also a racket. When I ran the dirt burning plant, I had to hedge gas through HESS out of the Henry Hub. There's just about no way for the utility folks to ever lose money. I had to actually pay for gas I had hedged, that I didn't burn, plus about 4$ per decatherm penalty.

534805[/snapback]

Don't worry, these companies hold the nation's best interests paramount, even above their own. All is well.