stuckincincy Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 This may come as a surprise to many, but believe it or not, JP has looked better than Eli in many outings this year. 530934[/snapback] That 9 and 4 record is an illusion. Do not adjust your set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 you're absolutely right. jp still gets the benefit of the doubt because of the garbage line and his own inexperience, but i am concerned about his accucracy as well. i just keep telling myself how bad eli looked alst year... 530901[/snapback] Good point! And I really don't doubt that JP will improve...But I don't think there is any question 49% has to be a concern...No question he HAS to improve... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsinytown Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I think we all have a tendency to over analyze. This is basically a pretty simple equation: good OL=consistent offense. bad OL=the current Bills offense. The only way this team gets immediately better is to adress the OL problem. Everything else follows from there. The current OL just isn't an NFL-caliber line. Whomever's making the draft and free agent decisions next year can get all the skill QB's, WR's and RB's they want, but it's not going to make a difference until they address the foundation: The OL and DL. We can win with good-but-not-great skill players, but we will not win without quality on the OL and DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I think we all have a tendency to over analyze. This is basically a pretty simpleequation: good OL=consistent offense. bad OL=the current Bills offense. The only way this team gets immediately better is to adress the OL problem. Everything else follows from there. The current OL just isn't an NFL-caliber line. Whomever's making the draft and free agent decisions next year can get all the skill QB's, WR's and RB's they want, but it's not going to make a difference until they address the foundation: The OL and DL. We can win with good-but-not-great skill players, but we will not win without quality on the OL and DL. 530969[/snapback] I think it's good OL + good O system built to the players' strengths = consistent offense. Even if TD did a good job at rebuilding the OL, I have no confidence that MM & TC would've been able to take advantage of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30dive Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Good O-line protects QB in pasing situations, A good O-line opens holes for runners in running situation, A good O-line alolows a coach to call his number one running backs number more than 8 times in a game. Good God people, we need a line (on both sides of the ball) and a young stud safety. We do NOT need a new QB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 That 9 and 4 record is an illusion. Do not adjust your set. 530949[/snapback] The record is not an illusion. It just shows the good balance that Ginats have. They are very similar to Bears, and no one will confuse Orton with the second coming. The primary difference between JP & Eli is that Plexiglass decided to finally play this year and so has Shokey. Give Eli the effort of Moulds & Mark Campbell, and then compare the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Losmn throws a nice deep ball. That's pretty much a given. Can he throw short to mid-range passes. That is the question. Granted he was horrible in the Patriots game (except on long passes). I wondered how much the weather was a factor because I didn't notice that to be a problem before. The Denver game will tell a lot. It may be that Losman needs to learn how to play better in bad weather. If it is the weather, and Losman can't adapt, then the Bills have a serious problem given that this is Buffalo, but I don't want to make that judgement yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfladave Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Funny, but it would be hard for the bills to pass up on Leinhart regardless of JP's potential. passing up on Leinhart would be painful in the next 10 years as he goes to multiple probowls and lights up the league. Bring in Leinhart and let JP and Leinhart duke it out for starting position similiar to what SD did with Rivers and Brees. Nobody can say SD made a mistake picking up Rivers after they already had Brees. 530855[/snapback] Actually I think in retrospect almost everyone thinks SD made a mistake picking up Rivers. He is eating up a large portion of thier cap and commanded a huge signing bonus. He is still totally unproven and he may be the one who gets traded next year if Brees can get them to the playoffs. That being said, I don't think anyone faulted the Rivers pick up at the time. As for Leinhart, if you put him behind this OL you will not see him going to multiple probowls much less lighting up the league. If the Bills wind up with a chance to snag Leinhart I hope that they trade down. We need to draft OL, DL in addition to some very good FA pick ups in these areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 This may come as a surprise to many, but believe it or not, JP has looked better than Eli in many outings this year. 530934[/snapback] Well, Eli Manning has looked bad on occasion this year. But let's look at the tale of the tape for this year: 60% completion percentages: Eli -2; JP-1 (vs. Houston) = ADVANTAGE ELI 300+ yard games: Eli - 3, JP - 0 (max 224) = ADVANTAGE ELI 225+ yard games: Eli - 6, JP - 0 ADVANTAGE ELI 3+ TD Pass games: Eli - 2, JP - 1 = ADVANTAGE ELI Worst Completion Percentage: Eli - 38.7%, JP - 37% = ADVANTAGE ELI 3+ INT Games: Eli - 2, JP - 1 = ADVANTAGE JP (I had to give him one) >150 Yard Passing Games: Eli - 1 (146), JP - 4 (max 137) = ADVANTAGE ELI >100 Yard Passing Games: Eli - 0, JP - 2 = ADVANTAGE ELI In other words, Eli's best has been far above JP's best, and JP's worst seems to be slightly below to well below Eli's worst. Is Eli's worst below JP's best? Yes. Is Eli just as bad as JP? I don't think that it is even close. But wait, this is Eli's second year starting. How did he do last year? Last year, Eli played 7 games. This year JP has played 9. Eli had one atrocious game - on the road in Baltimore, throwing for less than 100 yards. JP has had two of those games already. One in a comparable situation on the road in Tampa. The other, an inexcusable 75-yard effort in San Antonio against the woeful Saints. Indeed, Eli's first four games last year came under incredibly difficult circumstances: against Atlanta and Philly, and on the road in Philadelphia and Washington - four of the top defenses in the whole League for his first starts. By contrast, two of JP's first four games were against two of the worst teams in the League, Houston and New Orleans. Moreover, by Eli's last three games the signs of promise were there. He completed 70% of his passes at home against Pittsburgh - a playoff team last year, had a mediocre day at Cincinnati, and then completed 67% of his passes at home against Dallas. By Contrast, the best JP has been able to do since the Houston game was 56% passing against Kansas City, follwed by 55% outings at San Diego and vs. Carolina. By the Miami game, he was back down to a woeful 50%. So in other words, while Eli started out as cover-your-eyes awful with the Giants last year, by this point in his career he was already showing far more signs of promise than JP Losman has shown us at this point.... which, to say the least, is disconcerting. JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 the accuracy issue is a real problem, and i'm concerned about it. 530843[/snapback] I agree - and I agree with Van that it's something you're born with for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 When you have .00000008 seconds to set and throw that hurts it greatly. 530850[/snapback] The same argument was being made around here during the RJ era... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Well, Eli Manning has looked bad on occasion this year. But let's look at the tale of the tape for this year: 60% completion percentages: Eli -2; JP-1 (vs. Houston) = ADVANTAGE ELI 300+ yard games: Eli - 3, JP - 0 (max 224) = ADVANTAGE ELI 225+ yard games: Eli - 6, JP - 0 ADVANTAGE ELI 3+ TD Pass games: Eli - 2, JP - 1 = ADVANTAGE ELI Worst Completion Percentage: Eli - 38.7%, JP - 37% = ADVANTAGE ELI 3+ INT Games: Eli - 2, JP - 1 = ADVANTAGE JP (I had to give him one) >150 Yard Passing Games: Eli - 1 (146), JP - 4 (max 137) = ADVANTAGE ELI >100 Yard Passing Games: Eli - 0, JP - 2 = ADVANTAGE ELI In other words, Eli's best has been far above JP's best, and JP's worst seems to be slightly below to well below Eli's worst. Is Eli's worst below JP's best? Yes. Is Eli just as bad as JP? I don't think that it is even close. But wait, this is Eli's second year starting. How did he do last year? Last year, Eli played 7 games. This year JP has played 9. Eli had one atrocious game - on the road in Baltimore, throwing for less than 100 yards. JP has had two of those games already. One in a comparable situation on the road in Tampa. The other, an inexcusable 75-yard effort in San Antonio against the woeful Saints. Indeed, Eli's first four games last year came under incredibly difficult circumstances: against Atlanta and Philly, and on the road in Philadelphia and Washington - four of the top defenses in the whole League for his first starts. By contrast, two of JP's first four games were against two of the worst teams in the League, Houston and New Orleans. Moreover, by Eli's last three games the signs of promise were there. He completed 70% of his passes at home against Pittsburgh - a playoff team last year, had a mediocre day at Cincinnati, and then completed 67% of his passes at home against Dallas. By Contrast, the best JP has been able to do since the Houston game was 56% passing against Kansas City, follwed by 55% outings at San Diego and vs. Carolina. By the Miami game, he was back down to a woeful 50%. So in other words, while Eli started out as cover-your-eyes awful with the Giants last year, by this point in his career he was already showing far more signs of promise than JP Losman has shown us at this point.... which, to say the least, is disconcerting. JDG 531006[/snapback] You pretty much covered my concerns...By no means am I saying JP can't improve, but to say the accuracy problem is not a concern would be a big mistake...JP has to get a lot better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJBrown Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 But he was accurate in college.....usually if a guy is INaccurate in college he will be so in the NFL....if he is accurate in college he will usually be accurate in the NFL...once he adjusts I think this will all be water under the bridge shortly...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30dive Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The same argument was being made around here during the RJ era... 531017[/snapback] ....and Blesoe too.........Nothing has changed, for some reason this club lost the understanding of the need for a solid O-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I am not as impressed yet with JP as many of you. Yet, it is so difficult to tell just how good he is or may be given the line and and the horrendous play in general. With any luck, we will know more during these next three games. He has thrown some good passes and some horrible ones. At this point, I am willing to reserve judgment. We may as well see it through unless someone spectacular becomes available and is right for the team. At this point, I seriously doubt we could get even close to our investment in return for him. He seems like a hard worker and a likeable guy. I wish I knew more about what he could do with some adequate protection and the smash mouth running attack that we were promised. Upgrading the line would really help out both him and Willis. The jury is still out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Whether JP (or Kelly Holcomb, for that matter) is good or bad is not relevant. This team needs to build its offensive and defensive lines as a start. Drafting another qb would be a waste. He would be the next David Carr or Joey H. and we would continue to be the next Houston or Detroit (Houston and Detroit will start moaning about being compared to Buffalo next.) The rebuilding job starts at the line of scrimmage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The rebuilding job starts at the line of scrimmage. 531059[/snapback] The sad thing is that they should have started rebuilding the line many years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 All of our draft picks should be linemen this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound_n_Fury Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 With all due respect to Van Miller, he's lost it. Actually, he lost it years ago. 530841[/snapback] With all due respect, he knows a hell of a lot more than 98% of this MB.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I think JP's accuracy will improve when the OL improves. Right now he is hurried or being knocked down when throwing. No kidding your accuracy will suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts