Mark VI Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 Marv was a former ST's coach and strictly a delegator. He let Walt Corey and Wade run the D and Ted Marchibroda and Kelly run the Offense. Then he'd quote Churchill to impress the troops. Marv was a sharp guy but had a hell of a roster with some pretty sharp lieutenants to help navigate the waters. Polian gave him the job and the guns to fight with. A gameday genius, he was not.
inkman Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 As for assistant coaches, he hired Ted Marchibroda who basically invented the K gun. 530584[/snapback] Does inventing the K-gun entail "not telling Jim to run the no huddle"? Their was little genious except taking the riegns off of Jimbo. The K-gun piled up stats but was inherently flawed (as Parcells demonstrated) allowing your defense to spend way to much time on the field. Don't get me wrong, the K-gun was great but their was a time and place for it.
Coach Tuesday Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 I want them to hire a parrot for HC, that only knows how to say "bwah - RUN BALL, RUN BALL, bwah."
R. Rich Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 I want them to hire a parrot for HC, that only knows how to say "bwah - RUN BALL, RUN BALL, bwah." 530684[/snapback] So that's it! Screw getting linemen, safeties, TEs, new coaching schemes, new management/ownership philosophies, or any of that stuff; just run the ball more! That's the ticket.
Coach Tuesday Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 So that's it! Screw getting linemen, safeties, TEs, new coaching schemes, new management/ownership philosophies, or any of that stuff; just run the ball more! That's the ticket. 530687[/snapback] Could at least try it.
R. Rich Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 Could at least try it. 530696[/snapback] Considering McGahee's yards per rush average and the unending 8 or 9 man fronts the Bills see, I'm thinking they do 'try it'.
Billsjunkie Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 Is SDS even a Bills fan? Hey I might live in the past but thats all I got to remember as far as winning went. I want someone with some balls to scream at the refs. To spit on the players. I dont care if Marv is a great x's and o's type of coach. He makes good decisions and thats what we need on this team right now. Leadership and good decision making. You said that he had a great group of players. Well you know what I think we have some talent on this roster too. Not like the 90s bills but there is some talent. Its just that the COACHES are not bringing that talent out because of there dumb decision making. But Marv brings out the best in players...thats a fact.
SDS Posted December 13, 2005 Author Posted December 13, 2005 Considering McGahee's yards per rush average and the unending 8 or 9 man fronts the Bills see, I'm thinking they do 'try it'. 530701[/snapback] Do you know what Coach Tuesday's position is on Charlie Weis? Because he said he would throw 50 times in a row if you line up that many guys near the line of scrimmage every play.
macaroni Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 But in reality what exactly IS the responsibility of the head coach??? IMHO ....... game planning, and ensuring the gameplan is properly exicuted, as well as making "adjustments" should probably be under the perview of the co-ordinators. "Teaching" the individule players should come under the perview of the position coaches. So what is left for the poor old head coach ........ (again in my opinion) he must have a "vision" of what the personality of the team is going to be and communicating that "vision" to the GM/scouting staff so they will be able to stock the roster with the type of player that will fit in to that vision. He must communicate with his co-ordinators so they can construct game plans that coincide with his vision. He must communicate to his players to convince them that by playing within his vision they can/will be sucessful. He must communicate to his players that they shouldn't get too high after an individual win, nor too low after an individual loss (with the exception of the Super Bowl of course). What I'm trying to say is the head coach is the captain of the ship ....... he isn't the guy steering the ship, but he IS responsible to make sure the guy that is steering knows which direction he wants to go. As far as all great coaches having great players ...... I think it may be a classic chicken and egg type of thing ......... do we consider a player "great" because he plays on a team with a lopsided number of wins on its record ......... if the Bills we undefeated at this point of the season wouldn't we be saying look at all of the "super stars" we have on this team ...... a young gun slinging QB with weapons of McGahee, Moulds, Evans ........ Clements, Fletcher, Spikes, Adams, Vincent, and McGee on Defense ..... how can we miss.
smokinandjokin Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 SDS, you are right. I know what you're saying, you're not trying to dog Marv, but you're wondering what exactly he could bring to our current roster. I wondered the same thing a few days back (post #10).
Kultarr Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 Oh, I don't know. Marv could assemble a staff that wasn't totally incompetent. Marchibroda, Phillips, the special teams ... a couple of his staff even survived a couple regime changes, which is certainly a sign they were very capable. Dick Vermeil has a similar approach, hiring a staff of grizzled, old coaching veterans with loads of experience. It is true that none of Marv's guys went on the be great coaches elsewhere. Marchibroda and Phillips were the only ones that got head coaching job, but they had already been head coaches. But, that doesn't mean Marv's guys were not good, solid position coaches. There is no question that Marchibroda (of the 90s) or Phillips would be instant upgrades over the coordinators we have now. Indeed, it might be the case that Dan Henning and Walt Corey would be upgrades over Clements and Gray.
Kultarr Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 SDS, you are right. I know what you're saying, you're not trying to dog Marv, but you're wondering what exactly he could bring to our current roster. 530723[/snapback] First, at this point in time, Marv Levy is not the answer and he's not coming back to be the Bills head coach. But to answer the question, Marv would bring leadership. He may have been an administrator, but he also knew how to build an environment of success and pay attention to the details. Going to 4 straight Super Bowls is no trivial feat for any team, especially a team with the world-class egos the Bills had. The guy actually won 6 games with Todd Collins as his QB!
Coach Tuesday Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 Do you know what Coach Tuesday's position is on Charlie Weis? Because he said he would throw 50 times in a row if you line up that many guys near the line of scrimmage every play. 530705[/snapback] I'm telling you, that parrot would have a better record than Mularkey.
SDS Posted December 13, 2005 Author Posted December 13, 2005 First, at this point in time, Marv Levy is not the answer and he's not coming back to be the Bills head coach. But to answer the question, Marv would bring leadership. He may have been an administrator, but he also knew how to build an environment of success and pay attention to the details. Going to 4 straight Super Bowls is no trivial feat for any team, especially a team with the world-class egos the Bills had. The guy actually won 6 games with Todd Collins as his QB! 530729[/snapback] In 2005, "leadership" and $5 gets you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.... "Leadership" isn't going to rack up wins against a healthy Patriots team. Marv won with a single set of spectacularly talented guys of which many were hall of fame deserving. You brought up Marchibroda, but what about the cluster !@#$ that was Breshnahan and Shofner as co-coordinators? After he was forced to remove that abortion from the team - what about letting Dan Henning install the "H-Back" offense w/o the personnel to do that? It is one thing to "lead" a team overloaded with HOF talent, provided by the best GM in the game today, into battle - it is quite another to actually take a team that has average talent and put them into a position to win against equally, if not more talented, teams. Marv has never shown that ability and in fact I could list dozens of examples where his leadership failed this team in their pursuit of their goals, but I realize this isn't the place to lift the curtain on the wizard...
JDG Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 There is no question that Marchibroda (of the 90s) or Phillips would be instant upgrades over the coordinators we have now. Indeed, it might be the case that Dan Henning and Walt Corey would be upgrades over Clements and Gray. 530724[/snapback] Well, in fairness, Dan Henning seems to have done pretty well for himself since leaving Buffalo..... JDG
SDS Posted December 13, 2005 Author Posted December 13, 2005 Well, in fairness, Dan Henning seems to have done pretty well for himself since leaving Buffalo..... JDG 530747[/snapback] This is only my opinion of course, but this is where I lay partially lay Hennings' failure on Marv. Clearly Dan Henning knows a lot about football. If he didn't, he wouldn't be coaching today. However, I don't see Dan installing some brain-dead offense that poorly suits his personnel with guys like Gibbs, Edwards and Fox as the HC. They keep him in check. Marv did not keep any of his coaches in check. He let them have free reign to be miserable failures. Some call this leadership, others think otherwise...
Billsjunkie Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 Marv is a HOF coach. Enough said. Say what you will but getting to the Super Bowl for 4 years in a row says a lot about the coach.
Kultarr Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 Hey SDS, I wasn't really disagreeing with you. Like I said above, Marv is not the answer now. (I am in total agreement with your basic point that turning back the clock and bringing back Levy is nonsense.) Marv had his faults, no doubt, and you've pointed and alluded to many of them -- faults we've discussed at length many years ago, I might add. However, it is also true that Marv had his strengths. My minor point was that Marv did know how to surround himself with good assistants typically, in my opinion. The Breshnaofner move was just plain silly and its outcome pre-ordained -- having two people make the final decisions just doesn't work. But, I think I understand why Marv made that choice, even if I never agreed with it. Marv's loyalty and patience were not necessarily all bad, but were attributes that cost him his job at the end IMO.
Kultarr Posted December 13, 2005 Posted December 13, 2005 Some call this leadership, others think otherwise... 530755[/snapback] There are different types of leadership. Specifically, one does not have to be a complete dictator to be a leader. Indeed, how well do you think Marv would have gotten along in Buffalo with players like Kelly, Reed, Thomas, and Bruce if he was in their faces cussing them out and pissing in their wheaties on a day-to-day basis? I'd guess nowhere. But, back to Marv. The aforementioned players would've run through brick walls for the old guy if he asked them too. That is the leadership to which I am referring. Compare that to the head coach currently in Buffalo where his guys just coast through the game and collect a paycheck.
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