Reality and Tom Donahoe

[Mickey]

TD is not the worst GM in NFL history or even in Bills history nor does he walk on water or crap solid gold bricks. What you get with TD is a healthy salary cap and an occasionally competitive team.

 

His first year was a wash given the state of the team he inherited. In the 4 seasons since, we have been terrible twice and competitive twice (8-8 and 9-7).

Our cap looks pretty good, outstanding given where we started. Unfortunately, they don't give championship rings to the team with the tidiest balance sheet.

 

TD has loads of resolve when it comes to refusing to overpay for players. He won't pay top 5 money for a top 10 player nor will he pay top 20 numbers to a top 30 player. That kind of resolve, even if it means losing a solid and popular player like Pat Williams, is rare in this league. Because of TD's resolve, we have not paid "A" level salaries and bonuses to "B" level players. That keeps our salary cap situation pretty healthy. The problem is that it does cause you to lose good football players. Winfield was a good player. Pat Williams was a good player. So was Jonas Jennings. You may get better on the ledger losing players like that but you do not get better on the field.

 

If you want to do better than to be marginally competitive every couple of years or so, you have to find a way to hang on to good players. Yeah, it stinks having to over-pay a guy like Jennings but isn't it worth it to actually win some games?

 

What is worse, paying an A level salary to a B player like Jennings or paying a B salary to D level player like Gandy or Anderson? I'd rather overpay and win than overpay and lose.

 

In any event, that is the TD strategy, don't overpay and stay healthy on the cap so that if a Takeo Spikes comes along, you can sign him. In the meantime, hope you can find diamonds in the rough to replace players like Winfield, Jennings and Willams.

 

I think that time has shown that TD's strategy will not get you a championship but will get you a competitive team every so often. I'm not satisfied with being occasionally competitive. Time for TD to go and his coach with him.

 

Is Lou Saban still alive?

[OnTheRocks]

Stew Barber must have been "ketchup soup".

[thisiskeith12]

What about Joe Thomas? He has a good proven track record.

[Mickey]

What about Joe Thomas? He has a good proven track record.

529946[/snapback]

I think we should try and hire back Bill Polian. He likes a challenge and that is what we are right now, a real challenge.

[Typical TBD Guy]

TD is not the worst GM in NFL history or even in Bills history nor does he walk on water or crap solid gold bricks.  What you get with TD is a healthy salary cap and an occasionally competitive team.

 

His first year was a wash given the state of the team he inherited.  In the 4 seasons since, we have been terrible twice and competitive twice (8-8 and 9-7).

Our cap looks pretty good, outstanding given where we started.  Unfortunately, they don't give championship rings to the team with the tidiest balance sheet.

 

TD has loads of resolve when it comes to refusing to overpay for players.  He won't pay top 5 money for a top 10 player nor will he pay top 20 numbers to a top 30 player.  That kind of resolve, even if it means losing a solid and popular player like Pat Williams, is rare in this league.  Because of TD's resolve, we have not paid "A" level salaries and bonuses to "B" level players.  That keeps our salary cap situation pretty healthy.  The problem is that it does cause you to lose good football players.  Winfield was a good player.  Pat Williams was a good player.  So was Jonas Jennings.  You may get better on the ledger losing players like that but you do not get better on the field.

 

If you want to do better than to be marginally competitive every couple of years or so, you have to find a way to hang on to good players.  Yeah, it stinks having to over-pay a guy like Jennings but isn't it worth it to actually win some games?

 

What is worse, paying an A level salary to a B player like Jennings or paying a B salary to D level player like Gandy or Anderson?  I'd rather overpay and win than overpay and lose.

 

In any event, that is the TD strategy, don't overpay and stay healthy on the cap so that if a Takeo Spikes comes along, you can sign him.  In the meantime, hope you can find diamonds in the rough to replace players like Winfield, Jennings and Willams.

 

I think that time has shown that TD's strategy will not get you a championship but will get you a competitive team every so often.  I'm not satisfied with being occasionally competitive.  Time for TD to go and his coach with him.

 

Is Lou Saban still alive?

529937[/snapback]

 

Case in point: DT Corey Simon gets cut from the Eagles. TD looks the other way, and Polian doesn't.

[Mark VI]

I think we should try and hire back Bill Polian.  He likes a challenge and that is what we are right now, a real challenge.

529948[/snapback]

 

He'd demand Jeff Littmans head on a block, while swinging a claymore.

[RVJ]

If you want to do better than to be marginally competitive every couple of years or so, you have to find a way to hang on to good players. Yeah, it stinks having to over-pay a guy like Jennings but isn't it worth it to actually win some games?

 

 

I think if the Bills were playing real good and you were considered a superbowl type team. Then I can see overpaying to keep the team together. But with so many holes , it may be unwise to overpay older or injury prone players.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

It does work...IF you can evaluate talent.

 

See:

 

Joe Banner

Scott Pioli

[Mickey]

If you want to do better than to be marginally competitive every couple of years or so, you have to find a way to hang on to good players. Yeah, it stinks having to over-pay a guy like Jennings but isn't it worth it to actually win some games?

I think if the Bills were playing real good and you were considered a superbowl type team. Then I can see overpaying to keep the team together. But with so many holes , it may be unwise to overpay older or injury prone players.

529960[/snapback]

The thing is though, we didn't avoid overpaying for players by letting Jonas Jennings go or Pat Williams. Every penny we are paying their replacements is a waste given their lack of production. The question is, do you want to pay $150 for a $125 player or $75 for a $5 player?

 

Back in the day, guys like Talley and Metzalaars were the Pat Williamses and Jonas Jenningses of their time. They were good, not great but you had to have them to win.

[Mickey]

It does work...IF you can evaluate talent.

 

See:

 

Joe Banner

Scott Pioli

529979[/snapback]

I think there is a lot less risk in signing a good but not great player like Jonas Jennings than there is in trying to find a diamond in the rough in the draft. That really is why they command the free agent money they do, they are a known quantity. You know you are not getting a dud.

[TheMadCap]

I think we should try and hire back Bill Polian.  He likes a challenge and that is what we are right now, a real challenge.

529948[/snapback]

 

 

While I would love it to happen, why would Polian even consider coming here? He's going to have a friggin undefeated team, and probably a Super Bowl champ...

[GG]

Back in the day, guys like Talley and Metzalaars were the Pat Williamses and Jonas Jenningses of their time.  They were good, not great but you had to have them to win.

529993[/snapback]

 

Back in that day, you didn't have to worry about players like that bolting for greener pastures.

 

(Except that when it came time to decide whether Bills stick with Metz or friggin Lonnie....)

[The Senator]

Is Lou Saban still alive?

529937[/snapback]

 

I'm pretty sure Lou's still suckin' air, but he's gotta have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel.

 

Marv, on the other hand, is alive and kickin' - and in BuffTown tonite speaking at the Sports Headliner's dinner. Hopefully he's also speaking to Ralph...

 

Bring Marv back now - starting this week!

 

Regarding Donahoe, what we have here is a ham sandwich without the ham.

[apuszczalowski]

The problem is weither your goal is to win or make a profit. It is possible to do both if you are knowledgable.

 

Yes paying a top 10 player top 5 money is not the way to do it. But you have to evaluate what you are losing to what you are replacing it with. We lost winfield, but we have Clements and McGee. We lose Pat Williams and nobody has stepped up to fill-in. Was there anyone available that could have atleast been able to adequately fill-in for Williams? If not, then you may have to slightly overpay him, making it worth the extra money.

 

Buffalo is not in a position where they are going to be able to get A list players for B list money. Players are not lining up to sign in Buffalo just cause they want to play here like they would for a team like NE or Indy that has a very good shot at winning it all or NY where they have better TV coverage. When your a struggling team you either have to overpay a little for players, or spend a couple years building a young team through the draft and hope you have made the right choices and have a good young competitive team.

[KOKBILLS]

Case in point: DT Corey Simon gets cut from the Eagles. TD looks the other way, and Polian doesn't.

529954[/snapback]

 

And TD's explination of why they were not interested in Simon was just poor...His explanation was something like, "We want Players who want to play in Buffalo...We put in the call to his Agent but the talk always seems to be about money..."

 

Hmmm....The talk from the Agent always seems to come back to money huh TD? Now that is brand new information! And if we are going to limit our Free Agent focus to only those Players who are openly excited about going to Buffalo NY...Well the list is going to be pretty short, that is for certain...Want to get a Free Agent interested in Buffalo? Make him an offer that get his attention...

 

I'm not saying the Bills should have overpayed for Simon, or gone crazy to get him...I'm only saying that if in fact you stop talks because a Player does not seem to be too excited about moving to the snow belt initially, are you truly doing everything you can to improve your Team? At least throw me a bone and say we did everything we could, we made the guy what we feel is an awesome offer, and the fact is he just does not want to play here...

 

I mean no offense guys...Both sides of my Family are from Rochester...It will always be Home to me...But I really don't want to go back...Of coarse if someone made me an incredible offer to do so, I would obviously have to consider it very seriously...But my first reaction would always be against it...Which is probably exactly what happened with Simon...

[Mickey]

While I would love it to happen, why would Polian even consider coming here? He's going to have a friggin undefeated team, and probably a Super Bowl champ...

530007[/snapback]

Because the challenge and the fun is in building a team. That team is built and needs only some yearly tweaking. He can't be a mover and a shaker in the draft or in free agency. Its actually kind of ho-hum for a GM in his position. Its like playing chess. He won in Indy, match over. Time to clear the board, set 'em up and play another one.

 

I can dream can't I?

[obie_wan]

TD is not the worst GM in NFL history or even in Bills history nor does he walk on water or crap solid gold bricks.  What you get with TD is a healthy salary cap and an occasionally competitive team.

 

His first year was a wash given the state of the team he inherited.  In the 4 seasons since, we have been terrible twice and competitive twice (8-8 and 9-7).

Our cap looks pretty good, outstanding given where we started.  Unfortunately, they don't give championship rings to the team with the tidiest balance sheet.

 

TD has loads of resolve when it comes to refusing to overpay for players.  He won't pay top 5 money for a top 10 player nor will he pay top 20 numbers to a top 30 player.  That kind of resolve, even if it means losing a solid and popular player like Pat Williams, is rare in this league.  Because of TD's resolve, we have not paid "A" level salaries and bonuses to "B" level players.  That keeps our salary cap situation pretty healthy.  The problem is that it does cause you to lose good football players.  Winfield was a good player.  Pat Williams was a good player.  So was Jonas Jennings.  You may get better on the ledger losing players like that but you do not get better on the field.

 

If you want to do better than to be marginally competitive every couple of years or so, you have to find a way to hang on to good players.  Yeah, it stinks having to over-pay a guy like Jennings but isn't it worth it to actually win some games?

 

What is worse, paying an A level salary to a B player like Jennings or paying a B salary to D level player like Gandy or Anderson?  I'd rather overpay and win than overpay and lose.

 

In any event, that is the TD strategy, don't overpay and stay healthy on the cap so that if a Takeo Spikes comes along, you can sign him.  In the meantime, hope you can find diamonds in the rough to replace players like Winfield, Jennings and Willams.

 

I think that time has shown that TD's strategy will not get you a championship but will get you a competitive team every so often.  I'm not satisfied with being occasionally competitive.  Time for TD to go and his coach with him.

 

Is Lou Saban still alive?

529937[/snapback]

 

 

The plan is solid.

 

However, the missing component is that the team must draft effectively to have a stable of reasonable priced and capable replacements ready to take over for the departed over paid player with a minimal drop off in production.

 

Teflon has failed big time to consistently restock thru the draft.

 

In additoin, TD has totally miscalulcated on what is needed on the OL to compete in the NFL. His overhyped OL coach has not been able polish the turds that TD has acquired.

[Mickey]

The problem is weither your goal is to win or make a profit. It is possible to do both if you are knowledgable.

 

Yes paying a top 10 player top 5 money is not the way to do it. But you have to evaluate what you are losing to what you are replacing it with. We lost winfield, but we have Clements and McGee. We lose Pat Williams and nobody has stepped up to fill-in. Was there anyone available that could have atleast been able to adequately fill-in for Williams? If not, then you may have to slightly overpay him, making it worth the extra money.

 

Buffalo is not in a position where they are going to be able to get A list players for B list money. Players are not lining up to sign in Buffalo just cause they want to play here like they would for a team like NE or Indy that has a very good shot at winning it all or NY where they have better TV coverage. When your a struggling team you either have to overpay a little for players, or spend a couple years building a young team through the draft and hope you have made the right choices and have a good young competitive team.

530013[/snapback]

I don't think McGee is that good of a corner. A great return man, no doubt, but he has done little to distinguish himself as a starting corner. How much better would we be with Winfield starting and McGee as the nickel instead of Greer who gave up the TD that lost the Miami game?

 

It isn't really rocket science. You do not get better by losing good football players.

Balance sheets have nothing to do with the ability to block and tackle. If you are forever shopping the basement, that is where you will be, in the cellar. The last few years frankly, remind me of the 1970's where periodically, just as we were getting good, there would be a max exodus of good players from the team like Marlin Briscoe or JD Hill, etc.

[Mickey]

The plan is solid.

 

However, the missing component is that the team must draft effectively to have a stable of reasonable priced and capable replacements ready to take over for the departed over paid player with a minimal drop off in production.

 

Teflon has failed big time to consistently restock thru the draft.

 

In additoin, TD has totally miscalulcated  on what is needed on the OL to compete in the NFL. His overhyped OL coach has not been able polish the turds that TD has acquired.

530062[/snapback]

I think a plan that depends that heavily on drafting well given the uncertainties of the draft is not a very solid plan. Besides, what is the point of finding players in the draft if you let them go as soon as they prove their worth and have to be paid larger contracts to stay?

 

Another problem with that plan is that even if it works, if you replace a good player with a good player, you don't get better, you just stay the same. Any goof up in the plan, a draft bust or two, and you get worse in a hurry.

 

In the end, you end up overpaying anyway. You just end up overpaying a guy like Gandy to stink up the field rather than a guy like Jennings who at least held his own.

[Ray]

Thing is sometime you have to overpay at vital positions especially for your own players. And paying PW an extra 1.5M/year would not have broken the bank or cap at all. If he increased the offer by that much/year PW would be a Bill. An extra 1.8% of the cap is hardly overpaying or going to break the cap.