meazza Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051210/ap_on_...otest_shootings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 A similar headlin in the US would read: "Hippie Protest Broken Up By Border Patrol Enforcing Patriot Act" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted December 10, 2005 Author Share Posted December 10, 2005 The fact that stuff like this still happens in China really keeps me in disbelief about the chances that China has of becoming a global powerhouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 The fact that stuff like this still happens in China really keeps me in disbelief about the chances that China has of becoming a global powerhouse. 527011[/snapback] Why? Because allowing people free expression has never been one of the gauges of military/economic superiority. The Soviet Union was a super power and they did similiar things during their heyday, though there wasn't nearly the reporting because there was no internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 The fact that stuff like this still happens in China really keeps me in disbelief about the chances that China has of becoming a global powerhouse. 527011[/snapback] i hate to tell you this, but China is already a Global powerhouse....that will probably be partnering with Russia in the not too distant future to steamroll the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Why? Because allowing people free expression has never been one of the gauges of military/economic superiority. The Soviet Union was a super power and they did similiar things during their heyday, though there wasn't nearly the reporting because there was no internet. 527012[/snapback] I would argue that, absent a cohesive population with common roots/struggle or the general apathy enforced by 16-hour workdays like we now have, there's nothing like two strongarms holding an AK to keep your citizens straight. Such is why KJ-I is still in power, why Pinochet lives it up in sunshine, I could go on.... People should appreciate the BoR and that our soldiers and police work, at the heart of things, to enforce OUR unalienable rights (like any other profession, tho, there are some bad apples), rather than whatever rights that a contemporary leader might grant us. Early on in Tiannamen, the protestors fought back hard when officers first arrived on the scene, and if you read Simpson's(?) account of it, you're in shock as he describes one officer getting pulled out of the police van and literally getting his brains smashed out, others being burned alive.... (Which begs the question, at what point is shooting at/killing a 'law enforcement officer' a matter of self-defense, even in our country?) And then the Chinese army came in and put up black sheets around the square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted December 10, 2005 Author Share Posted December 10, 2005 Why? Because allowing people free expression has never been one of the gauges of military/economic superiority. The Soviet Union was a super power and they did similiar things during their heyday, though there wasn't nearly the reporting because there was no internet. 527012[/snapback] Although China has a vast population, and most likely a vast military, it generally does not mean success. The thing that makes militaries more powerful imho is the will of the soldiers. Remember, China had a vast military during the 19th century yes was clobbered by the smaller more fierce Japanese army. Even today the population still lives in fear rather than caring about the success of their government. Even the Soviets, being a power house were weak militarily, their advantage was that they had nuclear arms but who's to say if there would have been a war between US and USSR that US would have most likely won since they have a more efficient technologically advanced army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted December 10, 2005 Author Share Posted December 10, 2005 I would argue that, absent a cohesive population with common roots/struggle or the general apathy enforced by 16-hour workdays like we now have, there's nothing like two strongarms holding an AK to keep your citizens straight. Such is why KJ-I is still in power, why Pinochet lives it up in sunshine, I could go on.... People should appreciate the BoR and that our soldiers and police work, at the heart of things, to enforce OUR unalienable rights (like any other profession, tho, there are some bad apples), rather than whatever rights that a contemporary leader might grant us. Early on in Tiannamen, the protestors fought back hard when officers first arrived on the scene, and if you read Simpson's(?) account of it, you're in shock as he describes one officer getting pulled out of the police van and literally getting his brains smashed out, others being burned alive.... (Which begs the question, at what point is shooting at/killing a 'law enforcement officer' a matter of self-defense, even in our country?) And then the Chinese army came in and put up black sheets around the square. 527040[/snapback] If you go through the Mao era of Chinese communism, you begin to realize where the roots of these outbursts by the youth comes from. I just took a class on the history of china ( i actually just finished writing my final) and from what i have read and studied, that era was a horrible miserable time for anyone living in China. Anyone that was intelligent was ostrocized, beaten abused by the red guard and the police and the military. It was a miserable time and eventually forced these people to protest. Basically the leaders forced people to revolt, as these people would rather die than live in these conditions. Yet it is another situation of a people who were drawn into communism for its attractiveness in comparison with what they had before, and then realize it was a gigantic mistake of lost lives beyond belief. I have heard many references as China to being a huge empire but I have yet to see proof that China is able to efficiently run a country. Having abundances in labor leads to nothing more than massive exporting which is good but there is not much investment that is put into educating people rather than forcing them what to think. Generally, i think the western world will always be stronger because of the will to be free and the fact that we are allowed to think freely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Generally, i think the western world will always be stronger because of the will to be free and the fact that we are allowed to think freely. 527138[/snapback] Yeah, like the freedom to shop at places like Walmart and buy cheap Chinese goods that helps support the Chinese gov't and costs Americans their jobs, and the freedom for our gov't to continue deficit spending and borrow from the Chinese. China doesn't have to attack the U.S. to gain power and influence, we're giving it to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Yeah, like the freedom to shop at places like Walmart and buy cheap Chinese goods that helps support the Chinese gov't and costs Americans their jobs, and the freedom for our gov't to continue deficit spending and borrow from the Chinese. China doesn't have to attack the U.S. to gain power and influence, we're giving it to them. 527172[/snapback] Don't forget IBM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Don't forget IBM. 527175[/snapback] Are you referring to Lenovo? I heard that part of the IBM deal was for them to move to New York, which surprised me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Are you referring to Lenovo? I heard that part of the IBM deal was for them to move to New York, which surprised me. 527215[/snapback] All that means is that they opened a New York branch, which is nothing new for China. They've been opening front companies in the US to acquire technology that can't be sold abroad and channel it back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Generally, i think the western world will always be stronger because of the will to be free and the fact that we are allowed to think freely. 527138[/snapback] The only problem with that, is that creates a basis of weakness in allowing free-thinking idiots to be as idiotic as they want and post stupid sh-- like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted December 10, 2005 Author Share Posted December 10, 2005 The only problem with that, is that creates a basis of weakness in allowing free-thinking idiots to be as idiotic as they want and post stupid sh-- like that. 527245[/snapback] ah sorry the intellectual has spoken, the only problem with freedom of speech is people like you aren't beaten and tortured to death now go !@#$ing die and maybe your wife will look for you under a couch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 ah sorrythe intellectual has spoken, the only problem with freedom of speech is people like you aren't beaten and tortured to death now go !@#$ing die and maybe your wife will look for you under a couch 527274[/snapback] Now THERE is some free thinking. Hate and intolerance, just what the world needs more of. Particularly at this juncture. I tend to think CTM pontificates overmuch on occasion, and don't hesitate to slap him when I feel like it, but not in such a vile way. What little credibility your argument may have had is now quite easily dismissed since you've shown that maybe China isn't the only place on earth where people do bad things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted December 10, 2005 Author Share Posted December 10, 2005 Now THERE is some free thinking. Hate and intolerance, just what the world needs more of. Particularly at this juncture. I tend to think CTM pontificates overmuch on occasion, and don't hesitate to slap him when I feel like it, but not in such a vile way. What little credibility your argument may have had is now quite easily dismissed since you've shown that maybe China isn't the only place on earth where people do bad things. 527306[/snapback] i agree that what i said is pretty extreme, but generally, this dickwad has been doing nothing but attack me insultingly for little or no reason. Generally i'm a good guy and have always been but this jerk off doesn't deserve my respect or decency. If it ruins my whole argument than so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Only on this crazy board could we see antics like this Debbie defending Tom! Whoda thunk it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Only on this crazy board could we see antics like this Debbie defending Tom! Whoda thunk it! 527316[/snapback] I've already put it on my calendar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 ah sorrythe intellectual has spoken, the only problem with freedom of speech is people like you aren't beaten and tortured to death now go !@#$ing die and maybe your wife will look for you under a couch 527274[/snapback] You are living proof that the right to be heard does not automatically confer the right to be taken seriously. And so much for having me on ignore, hmmm? Fool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Be gentle with them. They're holding the mortgage on this country, and you'll probably be working for them in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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