drnykterstein Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Vince LombardiTom Landry Bill Belicheck Marvin Lewis 525259[/snapback] Hehe, I like how one 9-3 season gets Marvin Lewis put on a list with Tom Landry and Vince Lombardi.
smokinandjokin Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Regardless of how well he's done as a COLLEGE head coach, he's still only a coordinator at the NFL level and NOBODY knows how well he'd do as an actual NFL head coach. This is my point, a good NFL coodinator does not equal good NFL head coach. Just look at Greggo, Norv Turner, Pete Carroll, Jim Haslett, Dave McGinnis, (hopefully not: Mike Mularky), etc. 525253[/snapback] Pete wasn't too bad: He guided the Patriots into the playoffs in his first 2 seasons, winning the AFC Eastern Division title at 10-6 in 1997 and advancing to the second round of the playoffs, then posting a 9-7 regular season mark in 1998. His overall record in New England was 27-21 in the regular season (including 8-8 in 1999) and 1-2 in the playoffs. He owns the franchise's second-best winning percentage (54.9%). The Patriots went 5-11 in 2000 in their first year under Belicheck. He went 6-10 in one season with the Jets, who proceeded to go 3-13 and 1-15 the next two seasons with Rich Kotite. In between those two jobs, he spent 2 years (1995-96) as the defensive coordinator with the San Francisco 49ers, who won the NFC Western Division title both seasons. The 49ers were 11-5 in the 1995 regular season when they had the NFL's top-ranked defense and then went 12-4 in 1996. And, Carroll now coaches USC, where he started 9-8, and has since gone 45-1.
Tortured Soul Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Pete wasn't too bad: He guided the Patriots into the playoffs in his first 2 seasons, winning the AFC Eastern Division title at 10-6 in 1997 and advancing to the second round of the playoffs, then posting a 9-7 regular season mark in 1998. His overall record in New England was 27-21 in the regular season (including 8-8 in 1999) and 1-2 in the playoffs. He owns the franchise's second-best winning percentage (54.9%). The Patriots went 5-11 in 2000 in their first year under Belicheck. He went 6-10 in one season with the Jets, who proceeded to go 3-13 and 1-15 the next two seasons with Rich Kotite. In between those two jobs, he spent 2 years (1995-96) as the defensive coordinator with the San Francisco 49ers, who won the NFC Western Division title both seasons. The 49ers were 11-5 in the 1995 regular season when they had the NFL's top-ranked defense and then went 12-4 in 1996. And, Carroll now coaches USC, where he started 9-8, and has since gone 45-1. 525273[/snapback] Didn't realize that. Why does he have such a bad NFL rap? And why did the Jets give him only one year? JoePa had been at Penn State for more than half a century, I think since he graduated from there. Back when he came an institution on campus, the NCAA was still bigger than the NFL. I can't think of anyone comparable to Weis - someone who has spent decades in the pros, has had incredible success, interviews fo head coaching jobs, and doesn't want one. I'd rather the Bills use every availabe dollar on him than any free agent. I'd even be willing to pay higher ticket prices for it.
smokinandjokin Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Didn't realize that. Why does he have such a bad NFL rap? And why did the Jets give him only one year? 525306[/snapback] I think the Jets were 8-8 the year before PC was hired, so I suppose 6-10 was considered a step back. But the team was obviously in decline, as evidenced by their record in the next two seasons. But I believe he was coach of the Jets when he caught some flack for putting his hands around his throat (the "choke" gesture) and taunted an opposing kicker after a critical miss. The consensus was that PC was a little too "Rah rah" for an NFL job. The college game seems to suit him pretty well. The big difference is the recruiting trips, but so far, he has said he loves recruiting.
tennesseeboy Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Weiss would be a great head coach for the Bills but I cannot believe he would consider it. Notre Dame is ever catholic boy's dream school, if successful you become a national icon (Knute Rockne, Ara Parseghan) and I suspect it pays pretty darn well too.
Mark Long Beach Posted December 8, 2005 Author Posted December 8, 2005 The difference being that Weiss was a *great* NFL Coordinator, perhaps the greatest NFL offensive coordinator in decades. He's quite seriously a football genius.On the other hand, if there is a "proven" head coach out there available for our selection, by definition he's also a *proven failure* for having been fired by his previous employer in the first place. JDG 525264[/snapback] Truthfully ALL the coordinators that get promoted to head coaching jobs are one of the very best at being a coordinator. That's why they get chosen for the next step. Look at what Greggo has done now that he's been handed back a defensive coordinator role. He's made lemonade out of a bunch of lemons. Don't forget he did a spectacular job back with Tenn too. But he sure didn't do so hot in his first run as a head coach (which we know all too well). Weiss MAY be/have been a good head coach. But it has nothing to do with how well he's doing at Notre Dame.
Mark Long Beach Posted December 8, 2005 Author Posted December 8, 2005 Pete wasn't too bad: He guided the Patriots into the playoffs in his first 2 seasons, winning the AFC Eastern Division title at 10-6 in 1997 and advancing to the second round of the playoffs, then posting a 9-7 regular season mark in 1998. His overall record in New England was 27-21 in the regular season (including 8-8 in 1999) and 1-2 in the playoffs. He owns the franchise's second-best winning percentage (54.9%). The Patriots went 5-11 in 2000 in their first year under Belicheck. He went 6-10 in one season with the Jets, who proceeded to go 3-13 and 1-15 the next two seasons with Rich Kotite. 525273[/snapback] Hmmm.. Better than I remember him doing. I do remember him doing well as a coordinator. I think that it was that those teams never lived up to expectations. That they did a good chunk worse than they were expected to do...? Evin if it was unfair such as those Jets teams clearly in decline. In my mind I've mistakenly lumped in Kotite's disasterous record in with his. Thanks for the clarification. Although it doesn't alter my main point that a great college coach (which he most certainly is) doesn't automatically make a great NFL coach.
JDG Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 The big difference is the recruiting trips, but so far, he has said he loves recruiting. 525312[/snapback] And why wouldn't he? The guy has managed to create a second Miami, with an overall talent level that allows him to simply outclass his competition most weeks. JDG
JDG Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 Truthfully ALL the coordinators that get promoted to head coaching jobs are one of the very best at being a coordinator. While that is true, but my point is that Weiss stands out as being head-and-shoulders above even the elite cohort of "promoted coordinators." He's a football genius - and if there was a Nobel Prize of football, he'd win it. Weiss MAY be/have been a good head coach. But it has nothing to do with how well he's doing at Notre Dame. 525323[/snapback] I disagree. In the few Notre Dame football games I have watched this season, they have looked, well, *Patriot-like*. Its scary. And just look at the way he has developed Brady Quinn in just one year. The guy can flat-out coach at the highest level, and just about every NFL team that passed up interviewing him the last three years because they wanted to hire a guy before the playoffs ended aught to be kicking themselves. JDG
kasper13 Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 The Bills can have Charlie Weiss when he is done at Notre Dame. Check back in 2036 or so. Why would he leave his dream job (and he just signed a 10 year extension through 2020) to coach the Bills or any other NFL team? He has Super Bowl rings. He has the job he always wanted and will win National Championships at ND starting next year. No amount of money in the world would make him leave ND.
Alaska Darin Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 If they gave out a Nobel Prize for eating cheeseburgers, Charlie Weis would win that too.... 524873[/snapback] Mike Mularkey could whip Charlie Weis' ass in every athletic competition ever but no one in their right mind would choose MM over CW to coach their football team unless they were going to bet the under AND take the points in a parlay.
NDBoston Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 God God Almighty. It's spelled Weis. One "s" Weis Weis Weis Weis. Phew..... Anyone who's a Notre Dame fan knows that Weis won't be going anywhere for some time. He's made it clear that the NFL had their chance and he's very settled at Notre Dame. I'm not naive enough to think he may never leave. IF it happens, it will be many years down the road and it will be the NY Giants job.
smokinandjokin Posted December 8, 2005 Posted December 8, 2005 And why wouldn't he? The guy has managed to create a second Miami, with an overall talent level that allows him to simply outclass his competition most weeks. JDG 525344[/snapback] I know you work some serious hours as an NFL coach, but recruiting is a different animal. It is rigorous getting through the coaching and administrative duties all day, and then picking up the phone or hopping on a plane so you can meet some 17 year-old kid and his parents (all who think the kid is God's gift to football), and kiss his ass for a few hours. Now imagine spending all of this time on 100 players, knowing full well that maybe 20 of them will come to your school. It is nice because you can build your own team with (more or less) the players you want. And Carroll has a leg up because 1) Players know they will play in an NFL-style program 2) USC has history, and they have been the best team in the country for the past 3 years 3) It is a beautiful campus in sunny L.A. And with no NFL, USC is the only show in town. All of that makes it easier, but it is still a grueling process that goes on 365 days a year.
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