Fake-Fat Sunny Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I acknowledge that Eric Moulds took actions (I'm still not sure what they were) that were detrimental to someone else. However, its hard for me to see how his actions were detrimental to the team. 1. He certainly did not serve JP's interests by apparently advocating a switch to Holcomb several games back. However, it was clear then and even clearer now that JP was in over his head and really needed to sit down, take a deep breath, possibly watch and learn how it is supposed to be done (which thanks to some controlled and productive play by Holcomb he was able to see what could be done with this Bills team by a QB who played within himself). Moulds thoughts as I understand them were correct and since he did not throw a vocal public hissy-fit like TO do not appear to have been detrimental to the team at all. 2. While all players must be willing to to be used in the gameplan as a decoy rather than as a target for passes, there is a balance here that should be expected and that you want players to have a "just give me the ball" attitude and they want and do step up an make a difference. While I do think it is detrimental to the team for a players actions to be to sit on the midfield mark and hold his breath because he is not thrown the ball, I do not think it is hands-down detrimental for a player to want, ask or even demand the ball. If Moulds were merely pissed at being used as a decoy I see this as a management problem which is probably best managed by the HC with a stick/carrot talking to rather than a TO nuking of a player with a suspension. The most disappointing thing to me about this is that it seems to be a case of MM/TD handling this situation poorly. If anything, my sense is that Moulds may have had some correct ideas which were too the detriment of MM/TD. It may well point out that poor management by MM/TD may be the thing which is truly detrimental to the Bills, If so, Ralph may be justified in disciplining or canning these two if he has the cojones and cash to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I acknowledge that Eric Moulds took actions (I'm still not sure what they were) that were detrimental to someone else. However, its hard for me to see how his actions were detrimental to the team. 1. He certainly did not serve JP's interests by apparently advocating a switch to Holcomb several games back. However, it was clear then and even clearer now that JP was in over his head and really needed to sit down, take a deep breath, possibly watch and learn how it is supposed to be done (which thanks to some controlled and productive play by Holcomb he was able to see what could be done with this Bills team by a QB who played within himself). Moulds thoughts as I understand them were correct and since he did not throw a vocal public hissy-fit like TO do not appear to have been detrimental to the team at all. 2. While all players must be willing to to be used in the gameplan as a decoy rather than as a target for passes, there is a balance here that should be expected and that you want players to have a "just give me the ball" attitude and they want and do step up an make a difference. While I do think it is detrimental to the team for a players actions to be to sit on the midfield mark and hold his breath because he is not thrown the ball, I do not think it is hands-down detrimental for a player to want, ask or even demand the ball. If Moulds were merely pissed at being used as a decoy I see this as a management problem which is probably best managed by the HC with a stick/carrot talking to rather than a TO nuking of a player with a suspension. The most disappointing thing to me about this is that it seems to be a case of MM/TD handling this situation poorly. If anything, my sense is that Moulds may have had some correct ideas which were too the detriment of MM/TD. It may well point out that poor management by MM/TD may be the thing which is truly detrimental to the Bills, If so, Ralph may be justified in disciplining or canning these two if he has the cojones and cash to do so. 523576[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 FFS: I hope you have to start pondering your next name in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 None of us has any idea what the real story is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 None of us has any idea what the real story is. 523603[/snapback] What you said plus...I don't understand the poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***PetrinoInAlbany*** Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 In Organizational Communication we recognize the concept of the "opinion leader." An opinion leader is someone within an organization who carries no official title - manager, spokesman, captain, whatever - no OFFICIAL title BUT who's been around so long - and is so respected by his peers - that he has on occasion to be the one to SAY what all the others are THINKING. Opinion leaders serve a useful purpose. In those times when the 'grapevine' excedes official internal communication on any subject, the opinion leaders are actually useful to management. Often, management doesn't see this. Moulds is saying what everyone's thinking. But you can't criticize or question some people without drawing their wrath. Eric is right. period. Fire Mularkey. Not because of this, but because he's a terrible coach. He wants to SUSPEND Moulds for offering a different opinion?!? Jesus ... fire Mularkey and make him a PP&P moderator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Not only is Moulds detrimental to the team and MM/TD (don't see how you seperate the two), but he is detrimental to the fans that support the team as a result. I can guarantee you that the level of Moulds dissatisfaction and resentment is 1,000 fold what it is that's been reported publicly. It's one thing to want the ball more (that's a good quallity) it's quite another to B word and moan about it in the locker room, cause division, and stymie the younger players who need to assert their own leadership as part of their maturation process. Moulds has been dissatisfied for years at his role if he's not the main threat in the game plan. Well, at 32 he's not the main threat regardless. Like Andre, we are seeing a receiver past his prime who can't rack up the YAC anymore and is frustrated by it. Well, it's unprofessional to let that frustration divide the locker room and that's exactly what's happened. Adams is another example. It's time to purge the resentful veteran leadership and let the younger key players assert their own. Happens to every team. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Not only is Moulds detrimental to the team and MM/TD (don't see how you seperate the two), but he is detrimental to the fans that support the team as a result. GO BILLS!!! 523623[/snapback] Or Not only are MM/TD detrimental to the team and Moulds, but they are detrimental to the fans that support the team as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 In Organizational Communication we recognize the concept of the "opinion leader." An opinion leader is someone within an organization who carries no official title - manager, spokesman, captain, whatever - no OFFICIAL title BUT who's been around so long - and is so respected by his peers - that he has on occasion to be the one to SAY what all the others are THINKING. Opinion leaders serve a useful purpose. In those times when the 'grapevine' excedes official internal communication on any subject, the opinion leaders are actually useful to management. Often, management doesn't see this. Moulds is saying what everyone's thinking. But you can't criticize or question some people without drawing their wrath. Eric is right. period. Fire Mularkey. Not because of this, but because he's a terrible coach. He wants to SUSPEND Moulds for offering a different opinion?!? Jesus ... fire Mularkey and make him a PP&P moderator. 523622[/snapback] Fire Mularkey and give him Aiken's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***PetrinoInAlbany*** Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Not only is Moulds detrimental to the team and MM/TD (don't see how you seperate the two), but he is detrimental to the fans that support the team as a result. I can guarantee you that the level of Moulds dissatisfaction and resentment is 1,000 fold what it is that's been reported publicly. It's one thing to want the ball more (that's a good quallity) it's quite another to B word and moan about it in the locker room, cause division, and stymie the younger players who need to assert their own leadership as part of their maturation process. Moulds has been dissatisfied for years at his role if he's not the main threat in the game plan. Well, at 32 he's not the main threat regardless. Like Andre, we are seeing a receiver past his prime who can't rack up the YAC anymore and is frustrated by it. Well, it's unprofessional to let that frustration divide the locker room and that's exactly what's happened. Adams is another example. It's time to purge the resentful veteran leadership and let the younger key players assert their own. Happens to every team. GO BILLS!!! 523623[/snapback] I only have two problems with your post... 1) Moulds was complaining BECAUSE they threw the ball on first-and-goal and a twenty point lead. That's not consistent with it being an "all about ME" thing, considering he's a WR ... 2) Don't speak for all fans. What Eric is saying makes me shout "right ON!" As a 40 year fan and 20 year season ticket holder, I HATE the "circle the wagons/Donahoe & Mularkey are always right" mentality. He's not doing ME any disservice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 We have nothing to go on. There really is no answer to this question at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 In Organizational Communication we recognize the concept of the "opinion leader." An opinion leader is someone within an organization who carries no official title - manager, spokesman, captain, whatever - no OFFICIAL title BUT who's been around so long - and is so respected by his peers - that he has on occasion to be the one to SAY what all the others are THINKING. Opinion leaders serve a useful purpose. In those times when the 'grapevine' excedes official internal communication on any subject, the opinion leaders are actually useful to management. Often, management doesn't see this. Moulds is saying what everyone's thinking. But you can't criticize or question some people without drawing their wrath. Eric is right. period. Fire Mularkey. Not because of this, but because he's a terrible coach. He wants to SUSPEND Moulds for offering a different opinion?!? Jesus ... fire Mularkey and make him a PP&P moderator. 523622[/snapback] It's rare we agree, Petrino. But we do here. The caveat is that this should never have to come out if things are being run at least 1/4 right. Moulds has been with Buffalo his entire career, and FWIW, is the only link back to the 90's run. There have been plenty of posts, here, over the years about him being a class act. Now, he's not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Fire Mularkey and give him Aiken's job. 523650[/snapback] That would get some pretty good national coverage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 In Organizational Communication we recognize the concept of the "opinion leader." An opinion leader is someone within an organization who carries no official title - manager, spokesman, captain, whatever - no OFFICIAL title BUT who's been around so long - and is so respected by his peers - that he has on occasion to be the one to SAY what all the others are THINKING. Opinion leaders serve a useful purpose. In those times when the 'grapevine' excedes official internal communication on any subject, the opinion leaders are actually useful to management. Often, management doesn't see this. Moulds is saying what everyone's thinking. But you can't criticize or question some people without drawing their wrath. Eric is right. period. Fire Mularkey. Not because of this, but because he's a terrible coach. He wants to SUSPEND Moulds for offering a different opinion?!? Jesus ... fire Mularkey and make him a PP&P moderator. 523622[/snapback] Are you suggesting a Communication Audit of the Bills' organiztion? I can help with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted December 7, 2005 Author Share Posted December 7, 2005 Not only is Moulds detrimental to the team and MM/TD (don't see how you seperate the two), but he is detrimental to the fans that support the team as a result. I can guarantee you that the level of Moulds dissatisfaction and resentment is 1,000 fold what it is that's been reported publicly. It's one thing to want the ball more (that's a good quallity) it's quite another to B word and moan about it in the locker room, cause division, and stymie the younger players who need to assert their own leadership as part of their maturation process. Moulds has been dissatisfied for years at his role if he's not the main threat in the game plan. Well, at 32 he's not the main threat regardless. Like Andre, we are seeing a receiver past his prime who can't rack up the YAC anymore and is frustrated by it. Well, it's unprofessional to let that frustration divide the locker room and that's exactly what's happened. Adams is another example. It's time to purge the resentful veteran leadership and let the younger key players assert their own. Happens to every team. GO BILLS!!! These are exactly the questions that i as a Bills fans want to see answered. I have no problem with suspending Moulds for actions detrimental to the team. There simply need to be actions detritmental to the team to do this. Actions which are detrimental should likely be dealt with using sanctions like in the TO case. Ideas which are detrimental (differences in opinion about how we are most productive) should be dealt with through good management (usually a combination of carrots and sticks that do not involve the CBA). It appears Moulds/MM at least have different ideas. However, this problem will and should be dealt with by a good manager. If the only refuge left for managing Moulds are CBA guided sanctions, there better be some actions by Moulds which justify them or MM has really coached and TD has managed poorly. 523623[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 That would get some pretty good national coverage... 523660[/snapback] Especially around here (it was an inside joke-Petrino's boss is named Aiken & I figured only he would understand it & the rest of you would be kind of perplexed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I only have two problems with your post... 1) Moulds was complaining BECAUSE they threw the ball on first-and-goal and a twenty point lead. That's not consistent with it being an "all about ME" thing, considering he's a WR ... 2) Don't speak for all fans. What Eric is saying makes me shout "right ON!" As a 40 year fan and 20 year season ticket holder, I HATE the "circle the wagons/Donahoe & Mularkey are always right" mentality. He's not doing ME any disservice... 523653[/snapback] I can only speak for myself and make no assertions otherwise. As I understand it, Moulds was complaining long before that pass on first and goal (a play that was the right call in that situation regardless of the Monday morning QBs expertise). He was malcontent all week when he realized he wasn't the thrust of the passing game plan. A good idea given Evans's record breaking 1st quarter. Is it possible Moulds was a bit resentful of Evans's success? Is it possible Moulds really did remove himself from the game as a result? If their is a REMOTE possibility of either, then his conduct is unbecoming the professional I thought he was and their is no room for any player, regardless of his past contributions, who acts that way. Frustrations aside. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Especially around here (it was an inside joke-Petrino's boss is named Aiken & I figured only he would understand it & the rest of you would be kind of perplexed) 523677[/snapback] Does Petrino's boss have trouble separating from coverage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
***PetrinoInAlbany*** Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Especially around here (it was an inside joke-Petrino's boss is named Aiken & I figured only he would understand it & the rest of you would be kind of perplexed) 523677[/snapback] I thought it was an odd reference too. I laughed thinking most of our friends in here would think you meant Sam Aiken ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 In Organizational Communication we recognize the concept of the "opinion leader." An opinion leader is someone within an organization who carries no official title - manager, spokesman, captain, whatever - no OFFICIAL title BUT who's been around so long - and is so respected by his peers - that he has on occasion to be the one to SAY what all the others are THINKING. Opinion leaders serve a useful purpose. In those times when the 'grapevine' excedes official internal communication on any subject, the opinion leaders are actually useful to management. Often, management doesn't see this. Moulds is saying what everyone's thinking. But you can't criticize or question some people without drawing their wrath. Eric is right. period. Fire Mularkey. Not because of this, but because he's a terrible coach. He wants to SUSPEND Moulds for offering a different opinion?!? Jesus ... fire Mularkey and make him a PP&P moderator. 523622[/snapback] i guarantee moulds did more than offer a opinion,there is no way he can keep his mouth shut,and now he whines but when the ball comes his way he dosnt hold on to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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