IowaBill Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 Why is it that the "counter views" use words like "all", "everyone", etc? Help me understand that? Generalizations weaken arguments. Moreover, I said an OPTION. I actually do not use that OPTION, but it is one and is probably better than the "other side" chooses which is to grab the childs arm, give the death glare because they are embarrassed by a two year olds normal emotions and use a death squeeze and threat to the child to "shut up or else". Is that what you "all" would like to see? No thanks; there are better solutions than the typical white trash, uneducated, lacking confidence, "blue collar proud" parenting options that was acceptable in the 50's. Oh I know, but you "all" turned out all right. Yes, evidence of that is found in the great socially progressive, always looking ahead, corporate and family destination known as WNY. Where those "core parenting skills" of "spank till it hurts" worked so well. Kudos! 526258[/snapback] Regarding your OPTIONS, perhaps you shouldn't limit to either ignoring a tantrum, or grabbing a childs arm and giving him / her a "death glare". Removing the child from the situation (taking the child to the car and sitting with him / her until the "tantrum" has run its course) should probably be the first OPTION chosen. Why??? it removes the annoyance from the other patrons of the business, and it removes the child from being the center of attention, whcih may be a big part of what they want, and it removes your reinforcement of the childs behavior by reposnding to it in a attention attracting manner (death glare!). Why isn't this OPTION chosen more often???? because it is inconvenient to the parents. Things being "inconvenient" to parents is probably the root cause of much of what has been discussed on this thread.
Simon Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 Regarding your OPTIONS, perhaps you shouldn't limit to either ignoring a tantrum, or grabbing a childs arm and giving him / her a "death glare". Removing the child from the situation (taking the child to the car and sitting with him / her until the "tantrum" has run its course) should probably be the first OPTION chosen. Why??? it removes the annoyance from the other patrons of the business, and it removes the child from being the center of attention, whcih may be a big part of what they want, and it removes your reinforcement of the childs behavior by reposnding to it in a attention attracting manner (death glare!). Why isn't this OPTION chosen more often???? because it is inconvenient to the parents. Things being "inconvenient" to parents is probably the root cause of much of what has been discussed on this thread. 526315[/snapback] Ding Ding Ding We have a winner. And the best thing about this approach is that once you do it a couple times the child in question knows the resulting consequences of his/her actions and the tantrums and outbursts miraculously stop. Imagine that.......
erynthered Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 Regarding your OPTIONS, perhaps you shouldn't limit to either ignoring a tantrum, or grabbing a childs arm and giving him / her a "death glare". Removing the child from the situation (taking the child to the car and sitting with him / her until the "tantrum" has run its course) should probably be the first OPTION chosen. Why??? it removes the annoyance from the other patrons of the business, and it removes the child from being the center of attention, whcih may be a big part of what they want, and it removes your reinforcement of the childs behavior by reposnding to it in a attention attracting manner (death glare!). Why isn't this OPTION chosen more often???? because it is inconvenient to the parents. Things being "inconvenient" to parents is probably the root cause of much of what has been discussed on this thread. 526315[/snapback] I'll agree too. I've got up a couple of times and just left a restaurant, as a lesson to the whinning child. ( of course, paying any bill my family may have incurred.)
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 I'll agree too. I've got up a couple of times and just left a restaurant, as a lesson to the whinning child. ( of course, paying any bill my family may have incurred.) 526365[/snapback] Somewhere, somehow, there's some child psychologist willing to appear on CNN to explain in great detail how you're actually an abusive parent for that. And I'm willing to be said psyshologist wasn't beaten nearly enough as a child...
Johnny Coli Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 If we acted up in public my dad would escort us out to the car and make us sit in the rumble seat until he finished what he needed to do. It wasn't until many years later that we found out the rumble seat was really a "trunk". I hate you, dad.
Dr. Fong Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 And I'm willing to be said psyshologist wasn't beaten nearly enough as a child... 526376[/snapback] You know it's a good thing you don't have kids at this point. I'd feel sorry for them. It's almost like you can't wait to beat a kid. You probably ought to look into why that is. Could it be that badge of honor that you wear for being beaten as a child and surviving it isn't such a badge of honor after all and is a badge of shame and sadness? If you ever do have a kid hold that kid in your arms and ask yourself if you really could picture yourself beating that child and then find another way to make sure your kids grow up the right way.
erynthered Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 You know it's a good thing you don't have kids at this point. I'd feel sorry for them. It's almost like you can't wait to beat a kid. You probably ought to look into why that is. Could it be that badge of honor that you wear for being beaten as a child and surviving it isn't such a badge of honor after all and is a badge of shame and sadness? If you ever do have a kid hold that kid in your arms and ask yourself if you really could picture yourself beating that child and then find another way to make sure your kids grow up the right way. 526409[/snapback] You missed his point and his sarcasm.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 You missed his point and his sarcasm. 526416[/snapback] Some people are such easy marks...
X. Benedict Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 Some people are such easy marks... 526444[/snapback] It really is hard to beat the family, if they are lost under the funiture.
Ghost of BiB Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 I'm mentally ill, and I get to shoot people... Oh sorry, wrong thread. My bad. Sorry.
GoodBye Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 I'm mentally ill, and I get to shoot people... Oh sorry, wrong thread. My bad. Sorry. 526614[/snapback] Quit hijacking threads, Bib!
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 Regarding your OPTIONS, perhaps you shouldn't limit to either ignoring a tantrum, or grabbing a childs arm and giving him / her a "death glare". Removing the child from the situation (taking the child to the car and sitting with him / her until the "tantrum" has run its course) should probably be the first OPTION chosen. Why??? it removes the annoyance from the other patrons of the business, and it removes the child from being the center of attention, whcih may be a big part of what they want, and it removes your reinforcement of the childs behavior by reposnding to it in a attention attracting manner (death glare!). Why isn't this OPTION chosen more often???? because it is inconvenient to the parents. Things being "inconvenient" to parents is probably the root cause of much of what has been discussed on this thread. 526315[/snapback] Totally agree. Even that option gets questioned! Let me tell you what is wrong with this society. Everybody has opinions and passes judgement... It leaves your head spinning. And the kids know it! I do exactly as you speak. Remove my child from the situation and the burden on others... And for their safety. One time my son was acting up and running wild through a parking lot. I picked him up and carried him to the car where I could have him buckled in the car seat. He put up a fight and I sternly secured him into his seat. A lady in a passing car stopped and said: "Don't do that, he is a lot smaller than you." I said: "Don't worry, I am just putting him in his car seat so he can stay put... What do you want me to do? Have him run wild through the parking lot?" She came into the situation half-way through it and now she is gonna pass on her parenting tips? But, she did get me to think about who and what is out there. I suspect that lady would have just let her kid run a muck anywhere? The problem is everybody has different thresholds and OPINIONS. HITTING IS NEVER THE ANSWER. But, questioning the non-violent, non-verbal abuse approaches? What gives? The parent or guardian still sets the rules. I can give her the benefit of the doubt because maybe she thought I was gonna go off on my son. Didn't it make headlines where a lady put her kid in a carseat and then went off on her? I thought about that and cut the interloper some slack. On a side note: My parents did good by stopping the cycle of hitting. My father would get beat as a kid... He never laid a finger on us... My mother parented the same way. Violence is not the answer. When my father was 8, he ran away from home. He hitched a train from Cheektowaga and ended up in Rochester, this was 1944. My grandfather worked on the railroad, he never drove a car or had an auto license. He had to take a day off of work and get a ride to Rochester to retrieve my father... When he got to Rochester, a police officer was with my father. My grandfather walked near them and mumbled: "You little bastard, wait till I get you home." You know what the cop said? He said: "If he lays a hand on you son, you come running right back to me... Don't you lay a HAND ON HIM." THIS WAS 1944! So goes everybody's theory that it (corporal punishment) was accepted. Needless to say... It might have sunk in with my grandfather... He never touched him again... It probably helped that my father would remind him what the officer said.
meazza Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 Totally agree. Even that option gets questioned! Let me tell you what is wrong with this society. Everybody has opinions and passes judgement... It leaves your head spinning. And the kids know it! I do exactly as you speak. Remove my child from the situation and the burden on others... And for their safety. One time my son was acting up and running wild through a parking lot. I picked him up and carried him to the car where I could have him buckled in the car seat. He put up a fight and I sternly secured him into his seat. A lady in a passing car stopped and said: "Don't do that, he is a lot smaller than you." I said: "Don't worry, I am just putting him in his car seat so he can stay put... What do you want me to do? Have him run wild through the parking lot?" She came into the situation half-way through it and now she is gonna pass on her parenting tips? But, she did get me to think about who and what is out there. I suspect that lady would have just let her kid run a muck anywhere? The problem is everybody has different thresholds and OPINIONS. HITTING IS NEVER THE ANSWER. But, questioning the non-violent, non-verbal abuse approaches? What gives? The parent or guardian still sets the rules. I can give her the benefit of the doubt because maybe she thought I was gonna go off on my son. Didn't it make headlines where a lady put her kid in a carseat and then went off on her? I thought about that and cut the interloper some slack. On a side note: My parents did good by stopping the cycle of hitting. My father would get beat as a kid... He never laid a finger on us... My mother parented the same way. Violence is not the answer. When my father was 8, he ran away from home. He hitched a train from Cheektowaga and ended up in Rochester, this was 1944. My grandfather worked on the railroad, he never drove a car or had an auto license. He had to take a day off of work and get a ride to Rochester to retrieve my father... When he got to Rochester, a police officer was with my father. My grandfather walked near them and mumbled: "You little bastard, wait till I get you home." You know what the cop said? He said: "If he lays a hand on you son, you come running right back to me... Don't you lay a HAND ON HIM." THIS WAS 1944! So goes everybody's theory that it (corporal punishment) was accepted. Needless to say... It might have sunk in with my grandfather... He never touched him again... It probably helped that my father would remind him what the officer said. 526975[/snapback] kids are hard to control, no matter how good a parent you are it is very difficult to discipline children. i have 3 nephews and they can be a serious handful at times especially since 2 out of the 3 are below 5 years old. sometimes it works but when there are guests over or they go visit they become little brats. that being said it's a fact of life, it's virtually impossible to keep your child from acting up, thats why they 're kids but there are ways of controlling them and making them behave respectibly. hitting is not totally wrong but there are limits. obviously a slap from my mom used to get me to stop being a brat but thats practically taboo now. It's reached to the point where a lil slap on the bum and the parent is an abuser. Obviously there should be control because many parents cross the line and lose it on their kids but that's more the stupidity of the parent rather than someone thinking it is correct discipline. I dread the day i have children if ever i do as i've seen how nuts my brothers goes trying to raise his 3 kids but it's a challenge.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 kids are hard to control, no matter how good a parent you are it is very difficult to discipline children. i have 3 nephews and they can be a serious handful at times especially since 2 out of the 3 are below 5 years old. sometimes it works but when there are guests over or they go visit they become little brats. that being said it's a fact of life, it's virtually impossible to keep your child from acting up, thats why they 're kids but there are ways of controlling them and making them behave respectibly. hitting is not totally wrong but there are limits. obviously a slap from my mom used to get me to stop being a brat but thats practically taboo now. It's reached to the point where a lil slap on the bum and the parent is an abuser. Obviously there should be control because many parents cross the line and lose it on their kids but that's more the stupidity of the parent rather than someone thinking it is correct discipline. I dread the day i have children if ever i do as i've seen how nuts my brothers goes trying to raise his 3 kids but it's a challenge. 526977[/snapback] That is good advice. The blue part says it all. Not that my grandfather was a saint... But, he was probably stressed out beyond belief and would have done something stupid! Without my dad... I may have never been here to tell the story!
meazza Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 That is good advice. The blue part says it all. Not that my grandfather was a saint... But, he was probably stressed out beyond belief and would have done something stupid! Without my dad... I may have never been here to tell the story! 526981[/snapback] in general, a good hearted caring person does not like discipling their children but will do it if they don't have a choice... then you have the type of person that will belt their kids the second he does something remotely wrong. my father in the time i knew him (since he left this earth when i was about 12) would never hit me or my brothers or sister. he would hardly raise his voice with us yet i never disobeyed him, i don't know why since i was pretty hard headed, i never did. my mom on the other hand when she was pissed off would slap me (not violently) but she would resort to it when i misbehaved and yet i rarely listened to her. I guess you have to have that sort of respect with your parents. It comes with time.
Ghost of BiB Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 If we acted up in public my dad would escort us out to the car and make us sit in the rumble seat until he finished what he needed to do. It wasn't until many years later that we found out the rumble seat was really a "trunk". I hate you, dad. 526393[/snapback] The hard round rubber seat cushion should have given you some clue, moron.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 in general, a good hearted caring person does not like discipling their children but will do it if they don't have a choice... then you have the type of person that will belt their kids the second he does something remotely wrong. my father in the time i knew him (since he left this earth when i was about 12) would never hit me or my brothers or sister. he would hardly raise his voice with us yet i never disobeyed him, i don't know why since i was pretty hard headed, i never did. my mom on the other hand when she was pissed off would slap me (not violently) but she would resort to it when i misbehaved and yet i rarely listened to her. I guess you have to have that sort of respect with your parents. It comes with time. 526983[/snapback] Intereseting is that some people will believe the exact opposite when what you say is probably the norm. Like everything else, people will stand in defiance to direct physical opposition and become even more determined. Is it a way they can have control in a weakened situation. The threat of authority is one thing... The actual use, another... The mystery of "what will happen" evaporates and one's will gets hardened. Again, I assume it is a natural human reaction in an attepmt to control a situation where you feel threatened. Might doesn't equal right... It sure the heck builds a lot of resolve for the weakened party. It is funny because they (relgious one's) always say: "Spare the rod, spoil the child." You can actually read that the exact opposite way proponents of corporal punshiment want it to be read. How do you define "rod?"... Figuratively as the wooden rod of a shepherd and the way he uses it as a "rod of correction" to guide and direct? What I am saying is that you are never gonna pound your message into a child. You can only guide and steer them down the correct path.
Terry Tate Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 Telling someone how to raise their kids is always a good way to start a fight. If your kids aren't causing anyone any grief, as children or adults, in a restaurant, store or on the local news headlines, I really don't care how you got there - you must have done something right. If your kids are causing everyone else grief, try something different. Plenty of people out there who didn't do so well in school, never went to college, have low-income jobs - and are outstanding neighbors and friends. That's the measure I have.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted December 10, 2005 Posted December 10, 2005 Telling someone how to raise their kids is always a good way to start a fight. If your kids aren't causing anyone any grief, as children or adults, in a restaurant, store or on the local news headlines, I really don't care how you got there - you must have done something right. If your kids are causing everyone else grief, try something different. Plenty of people out there who didn't do so well in school, never went to college, have low-income jobs - and are outstanding neighbors and friends. That's the measure I have. 527089[/snapback] Of course, we're talking about kids who cause other people grief in public...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 Of course, we're talking about kids who cause other people grief in public... 527149[/snapback] In this day and age, you blink wrong and it causes people grief!
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