OnTheRocks Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 Howie Dean says the US won't win in Iraq 80% of Iraqis want us to leave, and it's their country I want to scream, "LINK??"
Chilly Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 Howie Dean says the US won't win in IraqI want to scream, "LINK??" 521718[/snapback] Good ol Howie is just employing his strategy of firing up the base with soundbytes and leaving the actual politics to other people in his party.
Wacka Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 The screamer sounds just like Murtha did last week when he put down the military.
chicot Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 Howie Dean says the US won't win in IraqI want to scream, "LINK??" 521718[/snapback] LINK • 82 per cent are "strongly opposed" to the presence of coalition troops;
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 Polls are great. 521797[/snapback] If this is scarastic, why? As a "libertarian" (I throw this affliation out only because it is the closest?) I would think that you would want people to decide?... Not some faceless governement. Or do you think that the polls are wrong, rigged or something else? What are your thoughts? If it isn't (sacrastic), then great... Polls are great. They sure tell what the people want. Signed, ????The Riddler????
Mickey Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 If this is scarastic, why? As a "libertarian" (I throw this affliation out only because it is the closest?) I would think that you would want people to decide?... Not some faceless governement. Or do you think that the polls are wrong, rigged or something else? What are your thoughts? If it isn't (sacrastic), then great... Polls are great. They sure tell what the people want. Signed, ????The Riddler???? 521978[/snapback] Its a progression. First, Dean is wrong because he cited no facts for his claim, then Murtha is Dean, then the poll backing up Dean is wrong. Next, you and I are wrong or partisans or both for pointing any of that out. I smell a Jimmy Carter or Berkley radical reference coming. Maybe regression would be a better description than progression?
Alaska Darin Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 What's popular is rarely right and what's right is rarely popular. That about covers it.
chicot Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 Polls are great. 521797[/snapback] What alternate method do you suggest for gauging Iraqi public opinion? The casting of runes? Sacrificing a chicken and reading it's entrails?
IowaBill Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 What's popular is rarely right and what's right is rarely popular. That about covers it. 521992[/snapback] And what is "right" is the course of action the US is currently on in Iraq???????????? If we are relying on the likes of GWB and his people to determine what is "right", perhaps we would be better off by doing what is popular. At the rate things are going in Iraq, I am sure it wouldn't be any worse than what is "right". BUt i am sure the people making such decisions know quite a bit more about what is best for people in Iraq than the people in Iraq do. You know, that sounds almost like a Democrat. In fact, that osunds a great deal like what the righties here on PPP say that Democrats do. Isn't it great that both parties really want the same thing??? Perhaps Wacka and Mickey could lead us in a big group hug! Eagerly awaiting a non-substantive, sarcastic reply from the "right".
Ghost of BiB Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 What alternate method do you suggest for gauging Iraqi public opinion? The casting of runes? Sacrificing a chicken and reading it's entrails? 522000[/snapback] Works for me.
KRC Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 Works for me. 522009[/snapback] Hey, if it works.
Ghost of BiB Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 Hey, if it works. 522011[/snapback] I sometimes use Tarot.
KRC Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 I sometimes use Tarot. 522014[/snapback] Tea leaves are a nice change of pace.
Alaska Darin Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 And what is "right" is the course of action the US is currently on in Iraq???????????? If we are relying on the likes of GWB and his people to determine what is "right", perhaps we would be better off by doing what is popular. At the rate things are going in Iraq, I am sure it wouldn't be any worse than what is "right". BUt i am sure the people making such decisions know quite a bit more about what is best for people in Iraq than the people in Iraq do. You know, that sounds almost like a Democrat. In fact, that osunds a great deal like what the righties here on PPP say that Democrats do. Isn't it great that both parties really want the same thing??? Perhaps Wacka and Mickey could lead us in a big group hug! Eagerly awaiting a non-substantive, sarcastic reply from the "right". 522003[/snapback] Uh, Dad, I was against the Iraq war and I didn't vote for President Bush in either of his elections. I'm also not a Republican and don't vote for them, either. But don't let that get in the way of a good old fashioned non-substantitive rant.
tennesseeboy Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 I notice no one has disputed the underlying assertion...that we can't win in Iraq. Given that no one has defined "winning" yet, I think Dean has a point. The fact is there will be a civil war when we leave. If we leave tomorrow there will be a civil war. If we leave after the election, there will be a civil war. If we leave in two years with another 2500 dead GI's, there will be a civil war. Dean is right. Murtha is right. We should have never gone there and the "right" decision was not to go there in the first place (see my quote BEFORE we went in there about Augustine's criteria for a just war and how we didn't meet those standards.) Well...I guess its more fun to shoot the messenger than deal with an unpleasant message.
IowaBill Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 Uh, Dad, I was against the Iraq war and I didn't vote for President Bush in either of his elections. I'm also not a Republican and don't vote for them, either. But don't let that get in the way of a good old fashioned non-substantitive rant. 522029[/snapback] I am glad you didn't vote for Bush, clearly I raised you right. Or perhaps you turned out OK in spite of the way I raised you. Still, doing what is right versus what is popular may mean that someone will have to make a decision that may be contrary to the will of the people (that which is popular). Who should make that decision???? If it is going to be made by whoever the current administration may be (Dem, Repub, Libertarian, IBP) it means that someone is making a decision as regards what is best for everybody, regardless how the greater body ploitic may feel. frequently the Dems get bashed for doing such things. Currently it is the Republicans (GW and his cronies) doing that. yet the "hotpockets" Republican crowd here on PPP fail to see that inconsistency (surprise). BTW, my boy, I never said yoiu were one of theose Repubs. You spend far too much time failing to take a stand on anything that would require responsibility for your rants
tennesseeboy Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 I am glad you didn't vote for Bush, clearly I raised you right. Or perhaps you turned out OK in spite of the way I raised you. Still, doing what is right versus what is popular may mean that someone will have to make a decision that may be contrary to the will of the people (that which is popular). Who should make that decision???? If it is going to be made by whoever the current administration may be (Dem, Repub, Libertarian, IBP) it means that someone is making a decision as regards what is best for everybody, regardless how the greater body ploitic may feel. frequently the Dems get bashed for doing such things. Currently it is the Republicans (GW and his cronies) doing that. yet the "hotpockets" Republican crowd here on PPP fail to see that inconsistency (surprise). BTW, my boy, I never said yoiu were one of theose Repubs. You spend far too much time failing to take a stand on anything that would require responsibility for your rants 522095[/snapback] Just because a position (getting out of Iraq) is popular doesn't necessarily mean it isn't right.
X. Benedict Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 What alternate method do you suggest for gauging Iraqi public opinion? The casting of runes? Sacrificing a chicken and reading it's entrails? 522000[/snapback] Prayer?
Mickey Posted December 6, 2005 Posted December 6, 2005 What's popular is rarely right and what's right is rarely popular. That about covers it. 521992[/snapback] I don't think "right" and "wrong" are the issue in this particular case. If the Iraqi people want us there, we can fairly claim to be "liberators" if the Iraqi people do not want us there, we are "invaders". Whether or not it is "right" for us to be there regardless of what the Iraqi's think for our own reasons such as our national security is another issue entirely. As for the issue at hand, ie, Dean claiming that 80% of Iraqis do not want us there and OTR's questioning of that position, the cited poll is perfectly relevant, decisive even. That doesn't mean that Dean's conclusions based on that finding are sound, just that he is apparently right as to the fact that was placed in question.
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