complain all you want about the coaching, but

[dave mcbride]

With all that said, a running TD at that point in the game would have made more of an impact on the rest of the game than a score through the air...with less of a downside.

521548[/snapback]

actually, a running td or a passing td would have had exactly the same effect -- 7 points for the bills and a 30-3 lead. and when's the last time the bills were able to run it into the endzone? even though they've tried in recent weeks, they haven't been able to accomplish this simple task since playing the hapless jets on october 16 (week 6) when mcgahee scored on a 1 yard plunge.

[Dawgg]

Running it down their throat at first and goal from the 3 yard line is not coaching scared.

 

Running a finesse play action from the 3, on the other hand, is coaching scared.

 

Look at the good coaches around the league and none of them would have called that play in a similar situation. None.

 

I like Mularkey as a head coach, but that doesn't mean I have to like that call. It was boneheaded.

 

And I don't want teh Bills staff caoching scared, and I don't want them coaching against teh scoreboard in the middle of the game, and I don't think umpteen posts lamenting a perfectly normal call in the middle of the 3rdqrtr are a a reasonable response to the Bills willingness to do something that a lot of good teams regularly do.

Just because he/we disagree(s) with your philosophy, doesn't mean that you have some special insight that we're too stupid to understand. It just means that we disagree.

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[dave mcbride]

Running it down their throat at first and goal from the 3 yard line is not coaching scared.

 

Running a finesse play action from the 3, on the other hand, is coaching scared.

 

Look at the good coaches around the league and none of them would have called that play in a similar situation.  None. 

 

I like Mularkey as a head coach, but that doesn't mean I have to like that call.  It was boneheaded.

521561[/snapback]

the chargers did it last night.

[SouthernMan]

but the bills threw the ball most of the way down the field to get to the 3!! why abandon what's working? they clearly intended to score a td, which they would have done had losman been on target.

521543[/snapback]

 

 

That's some convoluted logic there Dave.

 

Driving down the field with 50 yards of green and an endzone in front of you is a COMPLETELY different thing than only having a total of 13 yards to work with.

 

You need a win to keep your slim playoff hopes alive. You can pretty much seal the deal and a win with a field goal.

 

Assuming Willis doesn't fumble, running the ball will almost assure a chipshot field goal. Throwing across the field with DBs playing tight coverage (because of the short field) is not a high percentage play. It's a far greater risk than just handing off the ball.

 

The Dolphins are desperate, down by 20 points. They're gonna pull all the stops. They're not worried about interference penalties. They've got nothing to lose.

 

The proof is in the pudding. We all saw the results. Do you not agree that the Bills would probably have won the game had they just handed off to McGahee? If you don't, you're in complete denial.

[KOKBILLS]

I think he understands perfectly well where you're coming from. I also think that he just happens to disagree with your desire for the staff to go into a little shell and start coaching against the scoreboard with a full quarter and a half left to play.

I happen to fully agree with him and view your desire to take the air out of the ball with 20:00 left to play to be nothing more than coaching not to lose. And I don't want teh Bills staff caoching scared, and I don't want them coaching against teh scoreboard in the middle of the game, and I don't think umpteen posts lamenting a perfectly normal call in the middle of the 3rdqrtr are a a reasonable response to the Bills willingness to do something that a lot of good teams regularly do.

Just because he/we disagree(s) with your philosophy, doesn't mean that you have some special insight that we're too stupid to understand. It just means that we disagree.

521509[/snapback]

 

Coaching not to lose? What part of going up by a minimum of 23 with 19 minutes left is Coaching not to lose?.. Taking the air out of the Ball??? OK in that very specific situation I guess you can say that...Doing something that a lot of good Teams do? I know your not saying the Bills are a good Team...And it's that type of thinking that caused that specific Play to go bad...Thinking this Team is capable of going out and executing simple things like any other good Team. A Good Coach has a feel for his Team and understands it's strengths and weakness and does what he can to assure the best possible outcome...

 

I said with all due respect in my Post and I meant it... and I never said he/or you were stupid for your opinion...

 

If that's what you took from it I apologize, and agree to disagree...

[Peter]

Play action pass in that situation is not a bad call. The only thing that made it "bad" was the lack of execution.

 

There are a lot of calls to complain about this season. That is not one of them.

 

The worst call was not double covering Chambers on the last play when everyone in the stadium and watching on tv knew the ball was going to him. What made it even worse was leaving one of our young kids on an island with him. At a minimum, either Clements or McGee should have been covering.

 

The second worst call (or calls) was not pressuring a back up QB the way that we had been with Ferotte so effectively.

[Dawgg]

1-4-OAK4 (6:17) L.Tomlinson up the middle to OAK 1 for 3 yards (T.Washington).

2-1-OAK1 (5:38) L.Tomlinson up the middle to OAK 1 for no gain (K.Morrison).

3-1-OAK1 (4:59) D.Brees pass to E.Parker for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

N.Kaeding extra point is GOOD, Center-D.Binn, Holder-M.Scifres.

 

Note that the play you refer to was on third and goal.

The Chargers were ahead 27-10.

Only after the first two runs failed, did they run the play action pass at the goal line.

 

Marty Schottenheimer played it smart.

Not our coach.

 

 

 

the chargers did it last night.

521564[/snapback]

[The Dean]

actually, a running td or a passing td would have had exactly the same effect -- 7 points for the bills and a 30-3 lead. and when's the last time the bills were able to run it into the endzone? even though they've tried in recent weeks, they haven't been able to accomplish this simple task since playing the hapless jets on october 16 (week 6) when mcgahee scored on a 1 yard plunge.

521557[/snapback]

 

 

Well it would have the same dffect on the scoreboard...but a much different effect on the rest of the game (and on future games, IMO). As you point out, the Bills have not scored on the ground in a long time. Other teams know this and expect us to pass in the red-zone. They are ALWAYS ready for us as we are so predictable. That was an opportunity to change that scenerio...and to give the OL and Willis something to feel good about. THAT'S the difference between a running and passing TD in that sitch.

[dave mcbride]

1-4-OAK4 (6:17) L.Tomlinson up the middle to OAK 1 for 3 yards (T.Washington).

2-1-OAK1 (5:38) L.Tomlinson up the middle to OAK 1 for no gain (K.Morrison).

3-1-OAK1 (4:59) D.Brees pass to E.Parker for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

N.Kaeding extra point is GOOD, Center-D.Binn, Holder-M.Scifres.

 

Note that the play you refer to was on third and goal.

The Chargers were ahead 27-10. 

Only after the first two runs failed, did they run the play action pass at the goal line.

 

Marty Schottenheimer played it smart.

Not our coach.

521573[/snapback]

fair enough - i thought it was first down, but i was sort of preoccupied while the game was on in the background. in any event, first down is generally regarded as the time to throw a play action pass. also, when was the last time the bills moved the ball significantly forward on the ground inside the 10 yard line?

[KOKBILLS]

Well it would have the same dffect on the scoreboard...but a much different effect on the rest of the game (and on future games, IMO).  As you point out, the Bills have not scored on the ground in a long time.  Other teams know this and expect us to pass in the red-zone.  They are ALWAYS ready for us as we are so predictable.  That was an opportunity to change that scenerio...and to give the OL and Willis something to feel good about.  THAT'S the difference between a running and passing TD in that sitch.

521576[/snapback]

 

 

How about giving the Home town Boy a crack at a TD Run??? I mean, I'm sure he had some family in the stands...

 

How's that for thinking outside the box....

[RunTheBall]

I think the rest of the league laughs at us.

 

You absolutely must come away with 3 points in that situation. 7 would be a bonus.

 

The Dolphins were completely back on their heels and getting spanked.

 

Passing the ball there goes against every shred of common sense and makes MM and TD look like complete hypocrites when they talk about having a tough power running team.

 

It was a god-awful play call that was instrumental in the team losing the game.

 

I was a MM fan when he first got here but 2 years of overcoaching and I've changed my mind. This franchise needs to clean house from the GM to the waterboy.

 

RTB

[dave mcbride]

Well it would have the same dffect on the scoreboard...but a much different effect on the rest of the game (and on future games, IMO).  As you point out, the Bills have not scored on the ground in a long time.  Other teams know this and expect us to pass in the red-zone.  They are ALWAYS ready for us as we are so predictable.  That was an opportunity to change that scenerio...and to give the OL and Willis something to feel good about.  THAT'S the difference between a running and passing TD in that sitch.

521576[/snapback]

i disagree because the bills have tried many times in the last 6 games to run inside the 10-15 yard line. put simply, they seem to be incapable of it.

[Dawgg]

Many of the problems in the red zone problems are due to penalties... holding, illegal motion, false start, chop block, etc...

 

Those penalties have an equal probability of occuring with a run and a pass. I would in fact argue we are less likely to get a holdling penalty when the linemen have to run block than pass block. Moreover, this line has shown that they are much better at run blocking than pass blocking.

 

All I ask if for our coaching staff to do the math.

 

Willis is averaging 3.9 yards per carry. Before that particular play that resulted in an interception, Willis had 21 carries for 75 yards (an average of 3.6 per carry).

 

The team needs 3 yards to score.

 

The team had 3 chances to score.

 

How can the team score with the highest probability? Isn't that the job of the coaches? You run low percentage plays when you are desperate. Not when you have a 21 point lead!!!

 

WAKE UP COACH MULARKEY!!!!

 

fair enough - i thought it was first down, but i was sort of preoccupied while the game was on in the background.  in any event, first down is generally regarded as the time to throw a play action pass. also, when was the last time the bills moved the ball significantly forward on the ground inside the 10 yard line?

521579[/snapback]

[Dawgg]

Is that you, Greg Williams?

 

That play action was one of the stupidest calls of the season. Bottom line.

 

Double covering Chambers was a dumb move but the Bills had no time to set their defense with the time running out.

 

Play action pass in that situation is not a bad call.  The only thing that made it "bad" was the lack of execution.

 

521572[/snapback]

[Dawgg]

Inside the 10-15 yard line is a lot different than inside the 5.

 

I may agree with you if the Bills had the ball at the 15 yard line. But with 1st and goal at the 3?

 

Not a chance.

 

i disagree because the bills have tried many times in the last 6 games to run inside the 10-15 yard line. put simply, they seem to be incapable of it.

521582[/snapback]

[Simon]

With that said, I want MM coaching with a an eye on the score and the clock. I'm pretty sure I know what you'd have done in that sitch...and I don't think it involves a pass.

About another 10 minutes of game time and then I'm all for Mularkey coaching against the score. With 20 minutes left that's just too early in the game to be score watching, imo. Too damned many things can happen and maintaining an agressive posture is important to maintain your dominant position in the game.

I'd have probably called up a sprint/option right, maybe off playaction as the phish seemed to be agressively attacking the middle of our offense. If JP gets the edge, he would likely have no problem pushing it in behind Josh Reed. Of course that's easy to say when I'm sitting here, eh?-) It's a whole 'nother world down there on the field with the shlt flying and having to have the call made within 10 seconds of the end of the last play.

 

 

Look at the good coaches around the league and none of them would have called that play in a similar situation. None.

Horseshlt. Losts of good coaches/teams call play action in shortyardge goalline situations and have plenty of success with it. Have you watched the Packers at any time during the last 10-15 years? Favre's only thrown about 50 TD's from inside the 5.

[gggbills]

About another 10 minutes of game time and then I'm all for Mularkey coaching against the score. With 20 minutes left that's just too early in the game to be score watching, imo. Too damned many things can happen and maintaining an agressive posture is important to maintain your dominant position in the game.

I'd have probably called up a sprint/option right, maybe off playaction as the phish seemed to be agressively attacking the middle of our offense. If JP gets the edge, he would likely have no problem pushing it in behind Josh Reed. Of course that's easy to say when I'm sitting here, eh?-) It's a whole 'nother world down there on the field with the shlt flying and having to have the call made within 10 seconds of the end of the last play.

Horseshlt. Losts of good coaches/teams call play action in shortyardge goalline situations and have plenty of success with it. Have you watched the Packers at any time during the last 10-15 years? Favre's only thrown about 50 TD's from inside the 5.

521614[/snapback]

 

Not lately he hasn't !!!!

[Dan III]

Have you watched the Packers at any time during the last 10-15 years? Favre's only thrown about 50 TD's from inside the 5.

521614[/snapback]

Most of those were on sprint/option right... Which is also what I would have called.

[bdelma]

look around the league -- good teams with good offenses regularly call play action passes on first and goal. it's a very safe play at least in theory, and 1st down is the time to do it.  the point of the game is to score as many points as possible, which is what the bills were trying to do. it's not a "trick" play and isn't unsound. 

 

moreover, if the play had succeeded, would anyone here have complained about it as bad playcalling? not likely. i had certain problems with the actual pass play called, but part of that was a function of the lack of a capable tight end on the roster.  you can't blame mularkey for that.  but in any event, the receiver was open and it should have been a td. all the complainers also seem to be forgetting the problems the bills have had moving the ball on the ground inside the 20 because of the crappy run blocking. 

 

geez - i feel like this board is haunted by the ghost of woody hayes, who said this immortal line many moons ago: "only three things can happen with the forward pass, and two of them are bad."

521378[/snapback]

That's crap, Regardless if they would have won, this team and coaches still will blow more games then winning them.

[Dawgg]

 

You are now comparing Brett Favre and his offense over the past 10 years to the 2005 Buffalo Bills. That is quite laughable. Favre is (or at least was) a prolific TD passer who averaged 30+ TDs per game. He also had Bubba Franks, who was an imposing red zone target.

 

Let's also not forget that the Pakers were running the West Coast Offense, an offense that BY DESIGN replaces short runs with short passes.

 

Compare that to yesterday's squad -- one with an offense that is cenetered around the run. What's the best Mularkey can come up with from the 3 yard line? A play action pass to Josh Reed? Oh yeah, that same guy who dropped a TD pass last week? The same guy with 5 career TDs?

 

That play was horseshIt...

 

Horseshlt. Losts of good coaches/teams call play action in shortyardge goalline situations and have plenty of success with it. Have you watched the Packers at any time during the last 10-15 years? Favre's only thrown about 50 TD's from inside the 5.

521614[/snapback]