Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I don't see it. Nate can play corner and he will make a good defensive team better. 520431[/snapback] BUT WE ARE NOT A GOOD DEFENSIVE TEAM. What you say may be true, but our DL sucks serious elephant nuts. Retaining Nate fricking Clements at the expense of the DL would be a mistake of Donohoian proportions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAL Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 It is funny how every criticism comes in a vacuum. We complain mightly about our lack of DTs and lack of pass rush, when that has a direct impact on corners. We complain about the poor schemes of our DC. We complain about the poor play of our safeties. Yet, when all these adversely affect one of our most talented players - he is a bum too? I don't see it. Nate can play corner and he will make a good defensive team better. 520431[/snapback] He got schooled today though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Now, let's try to pay attention here, Scotty. You SAVE money at the corners to purchase the services of a DL that will help add to the pass rush. 520428[/snapback] again, what is the name of that all-pro DL that is ready to come to Buffalo? A short list maybe? The top names routinely make it to free agency right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 again, what is the name of that all-pro DL that is ready to come to Buffalo? A short list maybe? The top names routinely make it to free agency right? 520439[/snapback] We could have had Corey Simon this year. Think he'da helped? Colts sure seem to enjoy his services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 We could have had Corey Simon this year. Think he'da helped? Colts sure seem to enjoy his services. 520441[/snapback] Are you suggesting we let Nate go and ask Indy to give us Simon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Are you suggesting we let Nate go and ask Indy to give us Simon? 520445[/snapback] Mullet. I'm saying that had TD not WASTED money on peripheral players, we could have bid LARGE for Simon's services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Mullet. I'm saying that had TD not WASTED money on peripheral players, we could have bid LARGE for Simon's services. 520447[/snapback] Nate is already under contract. What peripheral player did he sign that prevented us from signing him? Why did Philly let him go? They usually sign their top-flight YOUNG talent and let only the old guys and malcontents go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Nate is already under contract. What peripheral player did he sign that prevented us from signing him? Why did Philly let him go? They usually sign their top-flight YOUNG talent and let only the old guys and malcontents go. 520456[/snapback] By having so much money locked up in guys like Nate, Eric, Milloy and Vincent, he didn't have the scratch to get it done. A severe error, IMO. Simon's hardly old, and I'll take a castoff from the Eagles DL over ANY of our current DTs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Simon's hardly old, and I'll take a castoff from the Eagles DL over ANY of our current DTs 520461[/snapback] You got him - Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan III Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 You got him - Jefferson 520464[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 What the hell are you talking about? We have very little money locked up on Clements this season. There was enough money to get the job done on Corey Simon, but he simply didnt want to make that move. I agree with it because at the time, we had other priorities. Nobody expected such a huge dropoff in the defense. Moreover, nobody expected that Ron Edwards would go down and Sam Adams would barely play. Nate Clements is one of the few young stars on this defense and he should be kept. He is a shut down corner... he's had a few bad games this year but that's what I chalk it up to -- a bad year. This is probably a good thing for the Bills, as his price will go down slightly because of it. He's only 24 and he has many good years ahead of him. Corners are not cheap because they are hard to replace. You'd be nuts if you want him in another uniform. By having so much money locked up in guys like Nate, Eric, Milloy and Vincent, he didn't have the scratch to get it done. A severe error, IMO. Simon's hardly old, and I'll take a castoff from the Eagles DL over ANY of our current DTs 520461[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFerguson Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I'd suggest actually having an inkling of who might take the field in his place. I know that is crazy talk to people in Pennsultucky, but it is just the way we do things here in the city. If you want to shoot 1st and ask questions later - then go ahead. Clements has a ton of talent and I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater because of what has happened this season. 520413[/snapback] This logic doesn't win championships. JoeSixPack clearly is taking it out on Clements with a lot of post game emotion. SDS, you are trying to say that even though he made some mistakes, we should still keep him because he's a hell of an athlete. I agree, NC is a great athlete and a great football player. But he lacks heart. He has demonstrated this on several occasions, this year and years prior. No matter how good he is physically, he will always be a liability mentally. When selecting players to put on your championship team, this factor should be a binary decision maker. Those with heart are eligible to be on your team, those lacking heart should not be on your team. Nate Clements will be forever categorized with players like Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, etc. These players, like Nate, are regarded as the best at their positions. They are considered All-Pros, they will go to countless Pro Bowls, but I guarantee that Nate Clements WILL NEVER win a Super Bowl. Why you ask, because he has no heart. A championship caliber GM will realize that a CHAMPIONSHIP team must be built around players who are not only talented, but who also have intelligence and integrity. Players like TO, Moss, and Nate Clements will shout to the rooftops that they are the best at their position, but the best GMs realize that these players ultimately will screw you in the end with their lack of heart. So when SDS says, who should we replace Nate with, I say WHO CARES! It doesn't matter how good he is physically, he will never help you win a championship because he has no heart and no desire. On the final drive he looked like he could give a sh-- that his team just blew a 21 point lead. He was playing without heart. Not to mention that the all pro corner dropped a sure interception that would have been a sure TD in the first half. A player with half the talent would be just as good, because at least a guy like Greer, King, or Baker plays with heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofiba Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 This logic doesn't win championships. JoeSixPack clearly is taking it out on Clements with a lot of post game emotion. SDS, you are trying to say that even though he made some mistakes, we should still keep him because he's a hell of an athlete. I agree, NC is a great athlete and a great football player. But he lacks heart. He has demonstrated this on several occasions, this year and years prior. No matter how good he is physically, he will always be a liability mentally. When selecting players to put on your championship team, this factor should be a binary decision maker. Those with heart are eligible to be on your team, those lacking heart should not be on your team. Nate Clements will be forever categorized with players like Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Chad Johnson, etc. These players, like Nate, are regarded as the best at their positions. They are considered All-Pros, they will go to countless Pro Bowls, but I guarantee that Nate Clements WILL NEVER win a Super Bowl. Why you ask, because he has no heart. A championship caliber GM will realize that a CHAMPIONSHIP team must be built around players who are not only talented, but who also have intelligence and integrity. Players like TO, Moss, and Nate Clements will shout to the rooftops that they are the best at their position, but the best GMs realize that these players ultimately will screw you in the end with their lack of heart. So when SDS says, who should we replace Nate with, I say WHO CARES! It doesn't matter how good he is physically, he will never help you win a championship because he has no heart and no desire. On the final drive he looked like he could give a sh-- that his team just blew a 21 point lead. He was playing without heart. Not to mention that the all pro corner dropped a sure interception that would have been a sure TD in the first half. A player with half the talent would be just as good, because at least a guy like Greer, King, or Baker plays with heart. 520498[/snapback] I'd take Rudy over Nate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BravinSeattle Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 who are you replacing Nate with again? 520377[/snapback] Considering that it looks like we'll be drafting high enough to use a 2nd round pick to get a decent CB I'm not too worried about replacing Clements. What I am disappointed about is his decline in coverage ability because I had a pipedream that we could tage him and get a 1st round compensation pick for him. It definitely doesn't look like its even a remote possibility at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmel Corn Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Considering that it looks like we'll be drafting high enough to use a 2nd round pick to get a decent CB I'm not too worried about replacing Clements. What I am disappointed about is his decline in coverage ability because I had a pipedream that we could tage him and get a 1st round compensation pick for him. It definitely doesn't look like its even a remote possibility at this point. 520548[/snapback] 1. It was a bad game for NC and let's not judge his value based on it. Remember when somebody thought a quarterback named Rob Johnson (Jacksonville) was our next savior based on a single game performance? 2. Our defensive scheme puts a lot of emphasis on our corners to cover without safety help. Lot's of safety blitzes puts the corner on an island. Nothing new here, just that there was some blown coverages and lack of adjustments to compensate. 3. Yes we may have a high pick to use to backfill the CB position, however it is realistic that they can contribute that much as a rookie? 4. There will be enough teams that see value in NC and will outbid anything the Bills will offer to keep him. 5. Question - is Vincent too washed-up to play CB again if Clements is gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Any of the DB's on the roster next year will look much better if they upgrade the d-line. (it wouldn't hurt to have a healthy TKO on the field either) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 A list of the top CB FAs this coming year to help aid the discussion: Baltimore Ravens Dale Carter CB Buffalo Bills Nate Clements CB Kevin Thomas CB Cincinnati Bengals Rashad Bauman CB Cleveland Browns Ray Mickens CB Denver Broncos Lenny Walls CB Houston Texans Jason Bell CB Jacksonville Jaguars Terry Cousin CB Kenny Wright CB Kansas City Chiefs DeWayne Washington CB Miami Dolphins Kiwaukee Thomas CB New England Patriots Chad Scott CB Oakland Raiders Renaldo Hill CB Charles Woodson CB Pittsburgh Steelers DeShea Townsend CB San Diego Chargers Jamar Fletcher CB Tennessee Titans Tony Beckham CB Arizona Cardinals Raymond Walls CB Chicago Bears Jerry Azumah CB Detroit Lions Andre Goodman CB R.W. McQuarters CB Minnesota Vikings Ralph Brown CB Ken Irvin CB Brian Williams CB New Orleans Saints Fakhir Brown CB New York Giants Will Allen CB San Francisco 49ers Willie Middlebrooks CB Seattle Seahawks Jimmy Williams CB St. Louis Rams Terry Fair CB Corey Ivy CB Tampa Bay Buccaneers Juran Bolden CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 So when SDS says, who should we replace Nate with, I say WHO CARES! It doesn't matter how good he is physically, he will never help you win a championship because he has no heart and no desire. On the final drive he looked like he could give a sh-- that his team just blew a 21 point lead. 520498[/snapback] This is what I'm saying. he's a bonehead and that is a liability at the CB spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 This is what I'm saying. he's a bonehead and that is a liability at the CB spot. 520707[/snapback] I’m not even a big fan of Clements as I think he’s only had one really good year (that being last year) but you go way too far in your criticism of him. I'm not sure he's worth the money that he'll demand on the open market but he's far from a "liability" at the CB position. My biggest beef is that if you spend that kind of scratch on a player he better be a “difference maker”. A guy that makes big plays that help change the outcome of the game in the Bills favor. Clements doesn’t do that very often. He had a chance yesterday, a INT right into his hands that he would have taken back for a TD easily….dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I’m not even a big fan of Clements as I think he’s only had one really good year (that being last year) but you go way too far in your criticism of him. I'm not sure he's worth the money that he'll demand on the open market but he's far from a "liability" at the CB position. My biggest beef is that if you spend that kind of scratch on a player he better be a “difference maker”. A guy that makes big plays that help change the outcome of the game in the Bills favor. Clements doesn’t do that very often. He had a chance yesterday, a INT right into his hands that he would have taken back for a TD easily….dropped. 520714[/snapback] And let's not forget his Randy "Macho Man" Savage bodyslam that cost the Bills dearly. Add to that his f*ck-up in the Jacksonville home opener and about 82 other plays in his time here and you've got a resume full of stupidity and liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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