The Day TD gets fired

[Mikie2times]

More importantly, and maybe Kzoo can help find the numbers on this one, the Bills have the lowest ticket prices in the league - mainly because this team hasn't been good enough to charge more. 

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2004 NFL tickets

 

Average ticket price for NFL teams in 2004:

 

Team Price

 

1. Patriots------ $77.25

 

2. Redskins----- $64.65

 

3. Broncos------ $63.47

 

4. Chiefs-------- $62.72

 

5. Giants-------- $62.37

 

6. Jets----------- $62.17

 

7. 49ers--------- $61.75

 

8. Eagles-------- $60.32

 

9. Bears--------- $59.68

 

10. Lions--------- $59.04

 

11. Raiders------- $58.86

 

12. Bucs---------- $56.37

 

13. Vikings-------- $54.76

 

14. Colts---------- $53.92

 

15. Panthers------ $53.62

 

16. Chargers------ $53.40

 

17. Saints--------- $52.75

 

18. Rams ----------$52.31

 

19. Texans--------- $52.11

 

20. Bengals-------- $51.95

 

21. Ravens--------- $51.21

 

22. Cowboys------- $51.13

 

23. Steelers-------- $49.93

 

24. Seahawks ------$48.68

 

25. Browns-------- $46.51

 

26. Packers-------- $46.25

 

27. Dolphins-------- $46.17

 

28. Titans----------- $45.59

 

29. Cardinals-------- $44.21

 

30. Falcons---------- $44.14

 

31. Jaguars---------- $43.77

 

32. Bills-------------- $38.38

 

Leading Factors involved in pricing Linky

 

Ranked in order of importance

 

1. Team Performance

2. Revenue Needs

3. Public Relations

4. Market Toleration

5. Fan Identification

6. Average League Price

7. Economic Factors

8. Facility Capacity

9. Competing Entertainment

10. Average Income

11. Condition of Facility

12. Population

13. Schedule

14. Television/Media Coverage

15. Accessibility

16. Star Players

17. Racial Composition

18. Weather Conditions

[plenzmd1]

2004 NFL tickets

 

Average ticket price for NFL teams in 2004:

 

Team Price

 

1. Patriots------ $77.25

 

2. Redskins----- $64.65

 

3. Broncos------ $63.47

 

4. Chiefs-------- $62.72

 

5. Giants-------- $62.37

 

6. Jets----------- $62.17

 

7. 49ers--------- $61.75

 

8. Eagles-------- $60.32

 

9. Bears--------- $59.68

 

10. Lions--------- $59.04

 

11. Raiders------- $58.86

 

12. Bucs---------- $56.37

 

13. Vikings-------- $54.76

 

14. Colts---------- $53.92

 

15. Panthers------ $53.62

 

16. Chargers------ $53.40

 

17. Saints--------- $52.75

 

18. Rams ----------$52.31

 

19. Texans--------- $52.11

 

20. Bengals-------- $51.95

 

21. Ravens--------- $51.21

 

22. Cowboys------- $51.13

 

23. Steelers-------- $49.93

 

24. Seahawks ------$48.68

 

25. Browns-------- $46.51

 

26. Packers-------- $46.25

 

27. Dolphins-------- $46.17

 

28. Titans----------- $45.59

 

29. Cardinals-------- $44.21

 

30. Falcons---------- $44.14

 

31. Jaguars---------- $43.77

 

32. Bills-------------- $38.38

 

Leading Factors involved in pricing Linky

 

Ranked in order of importance

 

1. Team Performance                       

2. Revenue Needs                               

3. Average Price                                   

4.Economic Factors                               

5. Market Price Toleration                     

6. Fan Identification                                           

7. Public Relations                                   

8. Capacity of Facility                           

9. Competing Entertainment                                 

10. Condition of Facility                             

11. Average Income                                             

12. Population                                                         

13. Schedule                                             

14. Television/Media Coverage                 

15. Accessibility                                             

16. Star Players                                             

17. Weather Conditions                         

18. Racial Composition

517272[/snapback]

 

If you think the average ticket price to a skins game is $64 dollars, I got a bridge for you. Again, that does not include any charges for club seats, luxuary boxes, forced tailgates to keep your seats etc.

[Mikie2times]

If you think the average ticket price to a skins game is $64 dollars, I got a bridge for you. Again, that does not include any charges for club seats, luxuary boxes, forced tailgates to keep your seats etc.

517276[/snapback]

 

I don't think anything, TS just asked for average ticket prices, so I did a search for average ticket prices, and also came across the study on how ticket prices are set.

[plenzmd1]

I don't think anything, TS just asked for average ticket prices, so I did a search for average ticket prices, and also came across the study on how ticket prices are set.

517279[/snapback]

 

No, I understand, its just that thats the kind of thing that ole Ralphy is screaming about. On the face of it, not a huge differance in revenues, esp. when considering the 60-40 split. But my guess would be on average, the top 15 clubs bring in at least 5X the revenue of the Bills on an avarge game day, and quite possibly much more

[Mikie2times]

No, I understand, its just that thats the kind of thing that ole Ralphy is screaming about. On the face of it, not a huge differance in revenues, esp. when considering the 60-40 split. But my guess would be on average, the top 15 clubs bring in at least 5X the revenue of the Bills on an avarge game day, and quite possibly much more

517283[/snapback]

 

 

Do they ever come out with yearly total revenue figures? I know they come out with the annual franchise value, ticket cost, attendance etc. But as you pointed out that doesn't necessarily show who's bringing in the most money.

[plenzmd1]

Do they ever come out with yearly total revenue figures? I know they come out with the annual franchise value, ticket cost, attendance etc. But as you pointed out that doesn't necessarily show who's bringing in the most money.

517288[/snapback]

 

Not quite sure of that, but the figure that has been quoated is that teams like Washington and Dallas bring in over $100M more in revenue on a yearly basis than the Bills

 

Heres a list

 

http://www.forbes.com/lists/results.jhtml?...2=&passKeyword=

 

 

Whats staggering is the Bills only generate $10M more than the Cardinals, those of the half empty stadium every week

[Tortured Soul]

Is Buffalo really at less than 90% capacity this year? Has not every home game been sold out? So, if thats the case, how can they be at less than 100% capacity?

 

Now, if they average in the games at NO and Oakland, can see`where the capacity numbers come down.

Now, to your other point relative to revenue. Ticket revunue is split( i think 60-40) so that is not the huge disparity in revunues, Luxuary Box and Club seats, now that where the disparity comes in. So, while a club seat at Fedex may have a face of $150, it costs a ticket holder $250 for the ticket, and that money is NOT shared. That goes for the really high revenue Boxes, that Snytder can prolly charge close to 5X the amount than in Buffalo.That is why Ralph is screaming that there needs to be sharing of those revenues as  well, and Snyder, Jones et al are saying no friggen way.

Now to TD. IMHO, Ralph wanted some to come here and be fically responcible as it realted to the cap. I think TD convinced him that Butler had pooped the bed relative to the cap, and now the team must go throught a rebuilding period. Convenient I must say for TD. I mean, how pissed could Ralph have been seeing those boxes and clunb seats sell out in order to get the stadium renovations.

Not buying the "hes putting fannies in the seats argument"

517267[/snapback]

True, but it's only reasonable to expect that the Bills' luxury seats, priced by the same criteria as the rest of the tickets, would also be significantly lower than a New England or a Jets.

 

Thanks, Kzoo, for the research. The study shows nothing generates income like winning. It's surprising to read that market price toleration - the spending pwer of Buffalo vs. NYC is relatively unimportant. That flies in the face of the big market/small market argument.

 

In the Forbes study, I'm not sure what operating income is, but if that is net revenue, then the Bills rank a respectable 13th, and I'll give Donahoe his due for that. (If it's something else, then ignore the above.) So, he may be a good person to retain the team president title, but not the GM title. We need someone who can win.

[Tortured Soul]

Sorry, I meant average income and economic factors are relatively unimportant.

[Robert Paulson]

ESPN is using the Bills old capacity of 80,020 to get the 89.9% full.

 

with the loss of seats due to new boxes the capacity is now 70-73M (i am too lazy to look it up)

 

ESPN needs to hire some intern fact checkers.

[Mikie2times]

ESPN is using the Bills old capacity of 80,020 to get the 89.9% full.

 

with the loss of seats due to new boxes the capacity is now 70-73M (i am too lazy to look it up)

 

ESPN needs to hire some intern fact checkers.

517372[/snapback]

 

His Name is Robert Paulson

His Name is Robert Paulson

 

Just picked up on the handle

 

By the way good job picking up on the obvious mistake ESPN made. According to the Bills web site the capacity at the Ralph is 73,967. So by taking that figure into account instead of the 80,020 ESPN has us down for, The Bills average filling 97.2% of the stadium for home games. I was under the impression we’ve sold out all the home games this year, so if that’s the case perhaps these numbers reflect actual attendance figures, and not just tickets purchased.

[Tortured Soul]

His Name is Robert Paulson

His Name is Robert Paulson

 

  Just picked up on the handle

 

By the way good job picking up on the obvious mistake ESPN made.  According to the Bills web site the capacity at the Ralph is 73,967. So by taking that figure into account instead of the 80,020 ESPN has us down for, The Bills average filling 97.2% of the stadium for home games.  I was under the impression we’ve sold out all the home games this year, so if that’s the case perhaps these numbers reflect actual attendance figures, and not just tickets purchased.

517383[/snapback]

Yeah, I didn't really understand that figure either. I think, though, the point stands that filling up an NFL stadium really isn't that difficult.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

God, I hope not!

 

Nothing agaisnt Modrek, but I have to believe many of the suspect personal moves were made at Modrek's recommendations. TM seems to like working for TD, so I highly doubt that TD is over-riding TM's recommendations. If anything maybe that's TD's problem? Maybe that's why TM likes him so much as he goes along with every move TM wants. Who knows if that's true, but I doubt TD is over-riding TM's choices mnay times.

 

Tell me then if the season ticket holder don't renew their 2006 seats what will happen. Ralph surley doesn't want an empty venue. TD will be removed and Modrak will take over. That's where Ralphy is going.

516896[/snapback]

[SF Bills Fan]

screw %capacity...we've got a big a$$ stadium. Sort by avg attendance per game, total numbers, and you'll see we rank 8th in the league...not too shabby if you ask me...

517150[/snapback]

 

Agrees, those rankings are meaningless.

[Greybeard]

I don't know how far this goes anymore from a loyalty standpoint, but I thank GOD for Ralph Wilson! If we all had grown up without Professional Football in Buffalo, New York I think we'd all have a different view of our childhood, hometown, and relative environment. This is just the tip of the iceberg however. Ralph saved a dying Oakland Raiders franchise and between him and Lamar Hunt, we "share" in the success that they helped mightily to forge in the Merged NFL! I don't think Ralph Wilson has EVER recieved the "beloved owner" title that he richly deserves! Actually, unlike Wellington Mara, droves of fans will likely be estatic when he leaves this Earthly coil. As for me, I'll say a little prayer, and thank him from the bottom of my heart because he choose to take a chance on Buffalo with his AFL upstart way back when in 1960. Thanks Ralph!

516992[/snapback]

 

Nicely said. Where is that thumbs up smiley?

[Greybeard]

I don't think anything, TS just asked for average ticket prices, so I did a search for average ticket prices, and also came across the study on how ticket prices are set.

517279[/snapback]

 

How about some links! Several bits of information from different people here and no links.

[TDRupp]

The Only team going to LA will be Arizona.  Unless they end up in Mexico first.

517169[/snapback]

 

 

We wish. They will be in Ariz for at least 10 yrs with their new stasium set to open next year! Maybe the Saints? But if the NFL and the US Gov't bails them out we could become the prime target in 2-? years...

[krazykat]

first thing that needs to be looked at is OC and DC.  Im sorry guy but Dick build this D, not Grey.  Look what he is doing in Pittsburgh.  That D is just as good as ours but they are leaving their mark!

 

OC is a disaster.  MM is not going to be happy about his staff being canned as Phillips was not.  But it has to be done!  I would not mind seeing Capers or old Has up here...

 

All money needs to be spent on the OL, we are going to need a DT because Adams is a cut!  There are many needs for this team but it comes down to a WEAK coaching staff!

516909[/snapback]

LeBeau gets an awful lot of credit for having been in Buffalo for only a single season. And just out of curiosity, which players were brought on board here in Buffalo, on this marvelous defense that is, that were Dick's acquisitions?

 

Here are the choices, Kelsay, Crowell, McGee, Sape, and Haggan.

 

Milloy, Polk, Sidney, Adams, McKenzie, Spikes, and Posey.

 

Of the group it seems as if only Spikes was worth the cash. Most didn't make the team or served only as backups or role players. And to insist that every one of the good moves was all LeBeau is rosecolored in that way.

 

This was a one season stop off for LeBeau as a result of TD spending Ralph's money to do a buddy a favor. That's it.

[finknottle]

:

For all the people that talk about RW putting money before winning,  it's puzzling that they neglect doing the simplest analysis of the gate revenue...  In Buffalo, what's the gate difference between selling out every game and having absolutely zero attendence?  Thanks to RW's NFL-low ticket prices (ave $37),  it's about 13 million in profit per year (that's a very generous estimate).  If he priced them as they are in in the middle of the NFL,  like in Detroit ($57),  it's about $27 million in his pocket.  If he moved to LA and priced aggressively like New England ($75),  it would be $39 million. Again,  all very generous estimates,  but using the same assumptions.

 

So the point is that in the Buffalo market,  with prices RW chooses to set,  a sell-out is not nearly the windfall it is elsewhere.  Realistically,  if he were choosing sell-outs over winning as posters suggest,  it only means a few million dollars a year to him,  which is chump change on the Bills ledger.  They could easily make that up by playing hardball with the State or moving.

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That's from another thread, but is probably more relevent here. The point is that revenue is dominated by television money and marketing stuff. Gate revenue is negligible in comparison. In Buffalo, the profit difference between selling out every home game and having ZERO attendence every week will pay the salary of one franchised player. Or Mike Williams. Sell-outs are good for PR, and an indicator that you can raise your prices, but that's it - they don't have an impact on RW's wallet.