Mikie2times Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 From a financial standpoint TD runs the Bills very efficiently, and he brought with him a fairly lofty reputation as General Manager. For Ralph TD was the perfect hire, it brought the expectation of winning to the fans, and likely financial gain. Those two things probably head the list of things an owner looks for in a GM, so Ralph decided to bring TD aboard and all appeared to be rosy. Fast forward to now and you know the records. The original plan of TD bringing a winning team to Buffalo hasn't worked out, but the financial gains are even higher then expected. I believe Ralph is a man that cares about his legacy; he cares about how people remember him, and how much he can leave to his family. During the TD tenure Ralph was making that extra fortune for his family, and despite the losing he had a GM with the nickname Teflon. For the past four years we've blamed coaches, players, and the GM. Now TD is under a lot of pressure, and the statistical disaster that has been his tenure so far is on the front page. Say what you will about TD’s individual moves, but the case reporters can make against him is overwhelming if they’re on the attack. Now people are starting to think if this is what TD has done, why isn’t Ralph going to do anything about it. For the first time in a long time, some people are pointing fingers at the owner, not the GM, coach, or players. That hurts Ralph’s legacy and that isn't something he is going to tolerate as he continues to age. The question is will enough fingers be pointing at Ralph by the end of 2005 to overtake the financial benefits of TD? Realistically I see those things balancing out at the end of the season with TD sticking around another year. If he turns it around in 2006 he will most likely stay for the long term, if not I see it being his last season as GM.
bdelma Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 Tell me then if the season ticket holder don't renew their 2006 seats what will happen. Ralph surley doesn't want an empty venue. TD will be removed and Modrak will take over. That's where Ralphy is going.
Mikie2times Posted December 1, 2005 Author Posted December 1, 2005 Tell me then if the season ticket holder don't renew their 2006 seats what will happen. Ralph surley doesn't want an empty venue. TD will be removed and Modrak will take over. That's where Ralphy is going. 516896[/snapback] I don't see people not showing up in 2006, maybe 2007 if we have another bad year, but not 2006. TD will go crazy this off-season, he has to, because another bad year and he's probably out. We have a deep following, and most will probably be willing to shell out for tickets again if TD makes some popular moves.
NavyBillsFan Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 first thing that needs to be looked at is OC and DC. Im sorry guy but Dick build this D, not Grey. Look what he is doing in Pittsburgh. That D is just as good as ours but they are leaving their mark! OC is a disaster. MM is not going to be happy about his staff being canned as Phillips was not. But it has to be done! I would not mind seeing Capers or old Has up here... All money needs to be spent on the OL, we are going to need a DT because Adams is a cut! There are many needs for this team but it comes down to a WEAK coaching staff!
finknottle Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 :Now people are starting to think if this is what TD has done, why isn’t Ralph going to do anything about it. For the first time in a long time, some people are pointing fingers at the owner, not the GM, coach, or players. That hurts Ralph’s legacy and that isn't something he is going to tolerate as he continues to age. The question is will enough fingers be pointing at Ralph by the end of 2005 to overtake the financial benefits of TD? Realistically I see those things balancing out at the end of the season with TD sticking around another year. If he turns it around in 2006 he will most likely stay for the long term, if not I see it being his last season as GM. 516891[/snapback] Wilson's football legacy lies with the AFL and NFL more so than just this city. It will ultimately be measured on the national stage - what the owners, past and present, and the league thinks of him. It goes beyond what the people in Buffalo think of him. It goes far, far beyond what TBD posters think of him. If his image is tarnished in Buffalo, I don't think it effects his legacy a whole lot. Simply put, he's off in the big leagues. I doubt he thinks about his image at all. A man in his position has to be secure enough by now. Nor about making more money, despite the daily posts of how much money TD is making him. He has enough already, and his financial machinations seem to be on auto-pilot: get what you can from the state and county, but don't play hardball unless they are ripping you off. If he cares about anything football related at all, it is probably winning the superbowl before he goes, and getting into the hall of fame. And his getting into the Hall of Fame will have nothing to do with his popularity in Buffalo.
Tortured Soul Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 From a financial standpoint TD runs the Bills very efficiently, and he brought with him a fairly lofty reputation as General Manager. For Ralph TD was the perfect hire, it brought the expectation of winning to the fans, and likely financial gain. Those two things probably head the list of things an owner looks for in a GM, so Ralph decided to bring TD aboard and all appeared to be rosy. Fast forward to now and you know the records. The original plan of TD bringing a winning team to Buffalo hasn't worked out, but the financial gains are even higher then expected. I believe Ralph is a man that cares about his legacy; he cares about how people remember him, and how much he can leave to his family. During the TD tenure Ralph was making that extra fortune for his family, and despite the losing he had a GM with the nickname Teflon. For the past four years we've blamed coaches, players, and the GM. Now TD is under a lot of pressure, and the statistical disaster that has been his tenure so far is on the front page. Say what you will about TD’s individual moves, but the case reporters can make against him is overwhelming if they’re on the attack. Now people are starting to think if this is what TD has done, why isn’t Ralph going to do anything about it. For the first time in a long time, some people are pointing fingers at the owner, not the GM, coach, or players. That hurts Ralph’s legacy and that isn't something he is going to tolerate as he continues to age. The question is will enough fingers be pointing at Ralph by the end of 2005 to overtake the financial benefits of TD? Realistically I see those things balancing out at the end of the season with TD sticking around another year. If he turns it around in 2006 he will most likely stay for the long term, if not I see it being his last season as GM. 516891[/snapback] The expectation of winning has long since dissipated. Tom has filled this stadium to the 27th highest capacity, according to ESPN's attendance page. There is no substitute for winning. Win and the seats will be filled.
Rubes Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 I'll give up my season tickets the day they pry them from my cold, dead hands. Sorry, that's just not my idea of taking a stand to make a point.
Bflojohn Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 I don't know how far this goes anymore from a loyalty standpoint, but I thank GOD for Ralph Wilson! If we all had grown up without Professional Football in Buffalo, New York I think we'd all have a different view of our childhood, hometown, and relative environment. This is just the tip of the iceberg however. Ralph saved a dying Oakland Raiders franchise and between him and Lamar Hunt, we "share" in the success that they helped mightily to forge in the Merged NFL! I don't think Ralph Wilson has EVER recieved the "beloved owner" title that he richly deserves! Actually, unlike Wellington Mara, droves of fans will likely be estatic when he leaves this Earthly coil. As for me, I'll say a little prayer, and thank him from the bottom of my heart because he choose to take a chance on Buffalo with his AFL upstart way back when in 1960. Thanks Ralph!
BillnutinHouston Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 Tom has filled this stadium to the 27th highest capacity, according to ESPN's attendance page. 516975[/snapback] Can you elaborate please? Are you saying the ESPN page says we rank 27th in attendance?
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 I'll give up my season tickets the day they pry them from my cold, dead hands. Sorry, that's just not my idea of taking a stand to make a point. 516985[/snapback] I am taking my seat with me I have set aside enough to pay for the damages
BuckeyeBill Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 If Buffalo turns against Wilson... and he takes it personally... He will sell the team to Los Angelas likely. Los Angelas will NOT call themselves the Bills, but will create an entire new team, name, etc. We will HATE that Los Angelas team and have one of two options.. Root for Cleveland (I'd rather die) or some other team or Not follow football anymore. I vote that the fans do not turn on Wilson. It is a lose-lose situation if they do.
smokinandjokin Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 I think everyone is way off base when suggesting that Ralph brought in Donahoe to sell seats, and he is happy now because the team is making money. Ralph, in his mid-80's, has enough money to care for himself and his extended family for a long time. I think the man wants to win more than we know. He has devoted over 45 years of his life to this franchise. The purpose of bringing TD in was to take a run at a championship. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Ralph is pleased with attendance and revenues, but it seems very rediculous to me that people would suggest he is primarily concerned with padding his pockets for a few more years. Besides, as his family has shown little interest in taking over after Ralph passes on, his estate stands to collect a few hundred million dollars upon sale of the team. Ralph has been loyal to this team and this city for so long, that to suggest that his #1 priority is something other than winning a championship seems short-sighted and wrong.
rockpile Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 The expectation of winning has long since dissipated. Tom has filled this stadium to the 27th highest capacity, according to ESPN's attendance page. There is no substitute for winning. Win and the seats will be filled. 516975[/snapback] Link Please?
buckeyemike Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 Root for Cleveland 517016[/snapback] And why do you think I'm here? Mike
Tortured Soul Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 Link Please? 517036[/snapback] http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/attendance?s..._perc&year=2005 I guess it fell to 28th last Sunday.
Ramius Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/attendance?s..._perc&year=2005I guess it fell to 28th last Sunday. 517109[/snapback] screw %capacity...we've got a big a$$ stadium. Sort by avg attendance per game, total numbers, and you'll see we rank 8th in the league...not too shabby if you ask me...
rockpile Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/attendance?s..._perc&year=2005I guess it fell to 28th last Sunday. 517109[/snapback] Thanks! If you flip the view, they are 8th in average game attendance. That is the stat I wanted to see. Green Bay is 1st by capacity, with about 1500 less people in attendance per week.
The Hornell Kid Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 If Buffalo turns against Wilson... and he takes it personally... He will sell the team to Los Angelas likely. Los Angelas will NOT call themselves the Bills, but will create an entire new team, name, etc. We will HATE that Los Angelas team and have one of two options.. Root for Cleveland (I'd rather die) or some other team or Not follow football anymore. I vote that the fans do not turn on Wilson. It is a lose-lose situation if they do. 517016[/snapback] The Only team going to LA will be Arizona. Unless they end up in Mexico first.
Tortured Soul Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 screw %capacity...we've got a big a$$ stadium. Sort by avg attendance per game, total numbers, and you'll see we rank 8th in the league...not too shabby if you ask me... 517150[/snapback] Absolutely right - but I don't credit TD with building that stadium more than 25 years ago. More importantly, and maybe Kzoo can help find the numbers on this one, the Bills have the lowest ticket prices in the league - mainly because this team hasn't been good enough to charge more. So, for example, if the average Bills game has 72,000 fans paying $40 a piece and the average Patriots game has 68,000 fans paying $60 a piece, then the Patriots are making a ton more money despite having less fans. low ticket prices are good for fans and bad for the argument that TD lines RW's pockets with cash. My other point is that just about every NFL franchsie - 27 to be exact - fills its stadium to 92.% of capacity or above, with 12 at 100% of capacity. Only the real dregs of the league don't make it to 90% - Buffalo, Jacksonville, Oakland, New Orleans, and Arizona. Arizona is getting a new stadium, New Orleans' plight is well-documented, and Oakland and Jacksonville are on the short list of NFL franchises likeky to move. Is that really what TD has reduced us to?
plenzmd1 Posted December 1, 2005 Posted December 1, 2005 Absolutely right - but I don't credit TD with building that stadium more than 25 years ago. More importantly, and maybe Kzoo can help find the numbers on this one, the Bills have the lowest ticket prices in the league - mainly because this team hasn't been good enough to charge more. So, for example, if the average Bills game has 72,000 fans paying $40 a piece and the average Patriots game has 68,000 fans paying $60 a piece, then the Patriots are making a ton more money despite having less fans. low ticket prices are good for fans and bad for the argument that TD lines RW's pockets with cash. My other point is that just about every NFL franchsie - 27 to be exact - fills its stadium to 92.% of capacity or above, with 12 at 100% of capacity. Only the real dregs of the league don't make it to 90% - Buffalo, Jacksonville, Oakland, New Orleans, and Arizona. Arizona is getting a new stadium, New Orleans' plight is well-documented, and Oakland and Jacksonville are on the short list of NFL franchises likeky to move. Is that really what TD has reduced us to? 517259[/snapback] Is Buffalo really at less than 90% capacity this year? Has not every home game been sold out? So, if thats the case, how can they be at less than 100% capacity? Now, if they average in the games at NO and Oakland, can see`where the capacity numbers come down. Now, to your other point relative to revenue. Ticket revunue is split( i think 60-40) so that is not the huge disparity in revunues, Luxuary Box and Club seats, now that where the disparity comes in. So, while a club seat at Fedex may have a face of $150, it costs a ticket holder $250 for the ticket, and that money is NOT shared. That goes for the really high revenue Boxes, that Snytder can prolly charge close to 5X the amount than in Buffalo.That is why Ralph is screaming that there needs to be sharing of those revenues as well, and Snyder, Jones et al are saying no friggen way. Now to TD. IMHO, Ralph wanted some to come here and be fically responcible as it realted to the cap. I think TD convinced him that Butler had pooped the bed relative to the cap, and now the team must go throught a rebuilding period. Convenient I must say for TD. I mean, how pissed could Ralph have been seeing those boxes and clunb seats sell out in order to get the stadium renovations. Not buying the "hes putting fannies in the seats argument"
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