Anyone Watch SciFi's Inside The Bermuda Triangle?

[Chef Jim]

And that's not how torpedoes destroy ships.  The pressure wave from the explosion breaks the keel, not the absence of water below it. 

 

And as for the "Triangle"...just business as usual.  Sometimes things go out and don't come back because they met with an accident no one witnessed.  It's actually even more common in, of all places, the Great Lakes.

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With no communication from the ship/plane regarding the accident? How do you explain that?

[ieatcrayonz]

With no communication from the ship/plane regarding the accident?  How do you explain that?

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My loofah didn't send out a homing beacon either.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

With no communication from the ship/plane regarding the accident?  How do you explain that?

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It happens quick.

 

Actually, it's not all that unusual. Edmund Fitzgerald went down without a signal; had she not been sailing with another freighter, she'd have gone down as a "disappearance". The Andrea Gail disappeared without a signal. Flight 19 "disappeared" after much communication with the mainland...but one of the PBM search planes went out and was never heard from again - likely because it exploded (as PBM's were prone to do). Payne Stewart's Learjet, had it been over the ocean, would have "disappeared without a trace". In the '70s, a charter flight on approach to Chicago "undershot" the runway by a few miles and flew straight into Lake Michigan with no hint of a problem (until it hit the water, of course). About a decade ago, an Air Force A-10 disappeared on a training flight; they found the wreckage in the Rockies something like a week later with no indication of what happened. The USS Indianapolis in 1945 sunk without time to radio what happened.

 

Hell, name a ship or plane accident that HAS time to radio in. Only ones I can think of are the Andrea Doria and Titanic, and a handful of airliners that had failures not fatal to their airworthiness (e.g. one plane several years ago that lost all hydraulics in mid-flight and crashed on landing an hour later.)

[Chef Jim]

It happens quick. 

 

Actually, it's not all that unusual.  Edmund Fitzgerald went down without a signal; had she not been sailing with another freighter, she'd have gone down as a "disappearance".  The Andrea Gail disappeared without a signal.  Flight 19 "disappeared" after much communication with the mainland...but one of the PBM search planes went out and was never heard from again - likely because it exploded (as PBM's were prone to do).  Payne Stewart's Learjet, had it been over the ocean, would have "disappeared without a trace".  In the '70s, a charter flight on approach to Chicago "undershot" the runway by a few miles and flew straight into Lake Michigan with no hint of a problem (until it hit the water, of course).  About a decade ago, an Air Force A-10 disappeared on a training flight; they found the wreckage in the Rockies something like a week later with no indication of what happened.  The USS Indianapolis in 1945 sunk without time to radio what happened. 

 

Hell, name a ship or plane accident that HAS time to radio in.  Only ones I can think of are the Andrea Doria and Titanic, and a handful of airliners that had failures not fatal to their airworthiness (e.g. one plane several years ago that lost all hydraulics in mid-flight and crashed on landing an hour later.)

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But aren't most boats/ships equipped with a devices that sends a beacon as soon at the boat/ship capsizes?

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

But aren't most boats/ships equipped with a devices that sends a beacon as soon at the boat/ship capsizes?

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There's no global regulation thereof that I know of, and no central tracking of ships/boats that would make it practical. In other words, it's up to the owner of the boat to install such a device, if he chooses to, and in most places in the world up to the owner to track it, as well (a notable exception is certain beacons designed to broadcast on frequencies that the US Coast Guard monitors; The Perfect Storm - the book, not the movie - outlines that pretty well.) And even then...like I said, the Andrea Gail was lost with no communication, and she WAS equipped with such a beacon that broadcast on the USCG frequency. No one heard a thing. Batteries died, buoy was out of range, buoy was welded to the back of the wheelhouse and the Andrea Gail took a wave on the beam, rolled, and the buoy never released. Who knows? Lots of things can go wrong when a ship sinks; it's usually a very rapid process. And other boats...I've never heard of such a device on an ocean-going ship (though ships that sail high-piracy waters such as around Malaysia and Indonesia have a lojack-like device installed), and though you wouldn't think you could just lose a ship of several tens of thousands of tons without a trace, it's not infrequent.

 

Nowadays, it's often piracy (the area around the Malay peninsula and South China Sea averages nearly one hijacking a day; a good number of those disappear without a trace), but the sudden, catastrophic, and inexplicable loss of a ship happens, world-wide, probably a few times a year on average. Maybe as often as once a month. Certainly once a year, at a minimum.

[buckeyemike]

From what I've read about the Bermuda Triangle, it has about the average number of disappearances for an ocean area its size.

 

The first disappearance under the BT legend was of the five Navy Avengers in 1945 (sixty years on 12/5, and better known as "Flight 19").

 

One air traffic controller and private pilot said about 20 years ago that the squadron leader, thinking he was over the Florida Keys, may have turned north out into the ocean over Walker's Cay, which is an island off Florida's East Coast with no other islands around it. The story I've heard is that the flight compass and all other directional equipment malfunctioned and that the squadron leader really had no idea where he was.

 

I do not believe the pilots were taken by aliens or anything like that. The above theory is one of the most plausible toward this disappearance I've heard.

 

Mike

[Zona]

I guess my house could be considered the Virginia triangle with all the methane that I emit. 

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When i first read this post, I thought it said Virginal triangle....

[ExiledInIllinois]

It happens quick.  

 

Actually, it's not all that unusual.  Edmund Fitzgerald went down without a signal; had she not been sailing with another freighter, she'd have gone down as a "disappearance".  The Andrea Gail disappeared without a signal.  Flight 19 "disappeared" after much communication with the mainland...but one of the PBM search planes went out and was never heard from again - likely because it exploded (as PBM's were prone to do).  Payne Stewart's Learjet, had it been over the ocean, would have "disappeared without a trace".  In the '70s, a charter flight on approach to Chicago "undershot" the runway by a few miles and flew straight into Lake Michigan with no hint of a problem (until it hit the water, of course).  About a decade ago, an Air Force A-10 disappeared on a training flight; they found the wreckage in the Rockies something like a week later with no indication of what happened.  The USS Indianapolis in 1945 sunk without time to radio what happened. 

Hell, name a ship or plane accident that HAS time to radio in.  Only ones I can think of are the Andrea Doria and Titanic, and a handful of airliners that had failures not fatal to their airworthiness (e.g. one plane several years ago that lost all hydraulics in mid-flight and crashed on landing an hour later.)

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Being dumbfounded by a capital ship totally left unprotected, didn't the Japanese sub radio on their behalf? We just didn't believe them and thought those sneaky Japanese where fooling us.

 

Was the Indy allowed to radio?... I just read an article of that fiasco.

 

Anyway, I couldn't agree more with what you have said. Business as usual. Things go out and sometimes things don't come back. Case in point, JFK Jr's plane.

[ExiledInIllinois]

There's no global regulation thereof that I know of, and no central tracking of ships/boats that would make it practical.  In other words, it's up to the owner of the boat to install such a device, if he chooses to, and in most places in the world up to the owner to track it, as well (a notable exception is certain beacons designed to broadcast on frequencies that the US Coast Guard monitors; The Perfect Storm - the book, not the movie - outlines that pretty well.)  And even then...like I said, the Andrea Gail was lost with no communication, and she WAS equipped with such a beacon that broadcast on the USCG frequency.  No one heard a thing.  Batteries died, buoy was out of range, buoy was welded to the back of the wheelhouse and the Andrea Gail took a wave on the beam, rolled, and the buoy never released.  Who knows?  Lots of things can go wrong when a ship sinks; it's usually a very rapid process.  And other boats...I've never heard of such a device on an ocean-going ship (though ships that sail high-piracy waters such as around Malaysia and Indonesia have a lojack-like device installed), and though you wouldn't think you could just lose a ship of several tens of thousands of tons without a trace, it's not infrequent. 

 

Nowadays, it's often piracy (the area around the Malay peninsula and South China Sea averages nearly one hijacking a day; a good number of those disappear without a trace), but the sudden, catastrophic, and inexplicable loss of a ship happens, world-wide, probably a few times a year on average.  Maybe as often as once a month.  Certainly once a year, at a minimum.

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Interesting post. Here is some more info.

 

Good site:

 

NavCen USCG

 

Channel 70 (marine band, VHF) is Digital Selective Calling:

 

The U.S. Coast Guard offers MF/HF radiotelephone service to mariners as part of the Global Maritime Distress and Safety System. This service, called digital selective calling (DSC), allows mariners to instantly send an automatically formatted distress alert to the Coast Guard or other rescue authority anywhere in the world. Digital selective calling also allows mariners to initiate or receive distress, urgency, safety and routine radiotelephone calls to or from any similarly equipped vessel or shore station, without requiring either party to be near a radio loudspeaker. DSC acts like the dial and bell of a telephone, allowing you to "direct dial" and "ring" other radios, or allow others to "ring" you, without having to listen to a speaker. New VHF and HF radiotelephones have DSC capability.

 

DCS

 

Satellite EPIRBs (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon):

 

EPIRB

 

Note the CAT I and II 406 MHz EPIRB.

 

Note battery guidlines:

 

Battery Replacement

 

406 MHz EPIRBs use a special type of lithium battery designed for long-term low-power consumption operation. Batteries must be replaced by the date indicated on the EPIRB label using the model specified by the manufacturer. It should be replaced by a dealer approved by the manufacturer. If the replacement battery is not the proper type, the EPIRB will not operate for the duration specified in a distress.

[ExiledInIllinois]

But aren't most boats/ships equipped with a devices that sends a beacon as soon at the boat/ship capsizes?

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Note my above post and links.

 

Yes, that would be:

 

Category I

406/121.5 MHZ. Float-free, automatically activated EPIRB. Detectable by satellite anywhere in the world. Recognized by GMDSS (Global Maritime Distress and Safety System).

 

Here is the full list as gleaned from the NavCen links I posted:

 

Class A

121.5/243 MHZ. Float-free, automatically-activating, detectable by aircraft and satellite. Coverage is limited. An alert from this device to a rescue coordination center may be delayed 4 - 6 or more hours. No longer recommended.

Class B

121.5/243 MHZ. Manually activated version of Class A. No longer recommended.

Class C

VHF ch15/16. Manually activated, operates on maritime channels only. Not detectable by satellite. These devices have been phased out by the FCC and are no longer recognized.

Class S

121.5/243 MHZ. Similar to Class B, except it floats, or is an integral part of a survival craft. No longer recommended.

Category I

406/121.5 MHZ. Float-free, automatically activated EPIRB. Detectable by satellite anywhere in the world. Recognized by GMDSS.

Category II

406/121.5 MHZ. Similar to Category I, except is manually activated. Some models are also water activated.

Inmarsat E

1646 MHZ. Float-free, automatically activated EPIRB. Detectable by Inmarsat geostationary satellite. Recognized by GMDSS. Currently not sold in the U.S.; however, the Federal Communications Commission is considering recognizing these devices. This service will end 12/31/2006.

 

But, like CTM said... What happens if it isn't installed or maintained? They say they range from 200 bucks to 1500.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Being dumbfounded by a capital ship totally left unprotected, didn't the Japanese sub radio on their behalf?  We just didn't believe them and thought those sneaky Japanese where fooling us.

 

Was the Indy allowed to radio?... I just read an article of that fiasco.

 

I've never heard of the Japanese commander radioing on Indianapolis' behalf. I would suspect no, for two reasons: 1) it sounds very un-Japanese (i.e. not consistent with their twisted Bushido philosophy of the time), and 2) sending such a message would have been equivalent to saying "Here I am!", and the I-Boat would have been sunk post-haste. I believe the I-Boat radioed the Japanese fleet about the sinking, and the message was intercepted and decoded by US Naval Intel...but the Japanese had a nasty habit of lying, exaggerating, or being just plain incorrect about such reports, so it wasn't followed up.

 

The Indy was allowed to radio...the problem was that she sank in about 10 minutes, in transit from Guam to Leyte after performing a special mission that in effect detached her from the normal command structure. Basically, no one was really aware she was in the area, and communications on the subject, for a variety of reasons (most being human error compounded by policy), was unreliable. Same old story: the information existed, but wasn't available in total to any one person involved. Thus Guam knew she left, but never got notice of her not arriving, and assumed nothing was wrong since notice of arrival wasn't routinely sent, and when she was overdue Leyte assumed Guam still had her...so she ended up being off everyone's board when she was sunk.

[X. Benedict]

When i first read this post, I thought it said Virginal triangle....

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That too has taken lives.

[ieatcrayonz]

I've never heard of the Japanese commander radioing on Indianapolis' behalf.  I would suspect no, for two reasons: 1) it sounds very un-Japanese (i.e. not consistent with their twisted Bushido philosophy of the time), and 2) sending such a message would have been equivalent to saying "Here I am!", and the I-Boat would have been sunk post-haste.  I believe the I-Boat radioed the Japanese fleet about the sinking, and the message was intercepted and decoded by US Naval Intel...but the Japanese had a nasty habit of lying, exaggerating, or being just plain incorrect about such reports, so it wasn't followed up. 

 

The Indy was allowed to radio...the problem was that she sank in about 10 minutes, in transit from Guam to Leyte after performing a special mission that in effect detached her from the normal command structure.  Basically, no one was really aware she was in the area, and communications on the subject, for a variety of reasons (most being human error compounded by policy), was unreliable.  Same old story: the information existed, but wasn't available in total to any one person involved.  Thus Guam knew she left, but never got notice of her not arriving, and assumed nothing was wrong since notice of arrival wasn't routinely sent, and when she was overdue Leyte assumed Guam still had her...so she ended up being off everyone's board when she was sunk.

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Nice work. Of course it does nothing to explain my loofah.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Nice work.  Of course it does nothing to explain my loofah.

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Why don't you go kill yourself, BF?

[ExiledInIllinois]

I've never heard of the Japanese commander radioing on Indianapolis' behalf.  I would suspect no, for two reasons: 1) it sounds very un-Japanese (i.e. not consistent with their twisted Bushido philosophy of the time), and 2) sending such a message would have been equivalent to saying "Here I am!", and the I-Boat would have been sunk post-haste.  I believe the I-Boat radioed the Japanese fleet about the sinking, and the message was intercepted and decoded by US Naval Intel...but the Japanese had a nasty habit of lying, exaggerating, or being just plain incorrect about such reports, so it wasn't followed up. 

 

The Indy was allowed to radio...the problem was that she sank in about 10 minutes, in transit from Guam to Leyte after performing a special mission that in effect detached her from the normal command structure.  Basically, no one was really aware she was in the area, and communications on the subject, for a variety of reasons (most being human error compounded by policy), was unreliable.  Same old story: the information existed, but wasn't available in total to any one person involved.  Thus Guam knew she left, but never got notice of her not arriving, and assumed nothing was wrong since notice of arrival wasn't routinely sent, and when she was overdue Leyte assumed Guam still had her...so she ended up being off everyone's board when she was sunk.

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Thanks!

 

I can't remember where I read it. I am pretty sure that after the war the Japanese captain actually testified about the attack.

 

I am not disputing what you said, probably my source. I am gonna see if I can find that source and reread it.

 

Again thanks for clearing it up!

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Thanks!

 

I can't remember where I read it.  I am pretty sure that after the war the Japanese captain actually testified about the attack.

 

I am not disputing what you said, probably my source.  I am gonna see if I can find that source and reread it.

 

Again thanks for clearing it up!

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There are a few decent web sites dedicated to it, including one I'm aware of that's an attempt to clear Indianapolis' captain's name.

 

And yes, after the war the I-Boat captain did testify at the investigation, as far as I know.

[ExiledInIllinois]

There are a few decent web sites dedicated to it, including one I'm aware of that's an attempt to clear Indianapolis' captain's name. 

 

And yes, after the war the I-Boat captain did testify at the investigation, as far as I know.

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Again, thanks... I think the article I read was from a WWII magazine... It was dated at about the 40th anniversary of the incident... So the source was sometime ago.

 

They really hung him (the captain) out to dry for not "zigging" when he should have been "zagging."

 

Just think if they would have been nabbed with the atomic bomb parts earlier in their misson? How that could have altered history. We really had a horseshoe wedged up ours at the time!

 

Interesting is that in 1968 the Indy captain committed suicide by blowing his brains out... One last casualty after 20 years.

 

[Ghost of BiB]

The I-Boat was lurking in an area that was basically a known crossroads of the sea lanes in that particular area. The Commander testified at McVeighs courtsmartial that it would have made no difference whether the Indy zig zagged or not, he just happened to be in perfect position for the attack, partly through skill, but a lot by luck and chance. He was actually quite surprised that the Navy would actually try the guy.

 

It was done to make a scapegoat for the disaster, which was actually the fault of senior officers, their procedures and policies in that theater. To make a long story short - nobody realized the ship was missing. So, those few that did survive spent 8 days in the water, most succumbing to the elements, and with sharks taking 4-6 men per hour after the second day. Blind luck that they were found at all.

 

I can imagine the bad dreams that came out of that one.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I can imagine the bad dreams that came out of that one.

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Quint in the book/movie Jaws?

 

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Quint in the book/movie Jaws?

 

   

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His story was an amalgam of first-person accounts I've read. Pretty much true. One of my favorite scenes in the movie too...throws Quint's obssession with sharks into clear relief, and Dreyfus' reaction ("...you were on the Indianapolis?") was perfect, and one of the best pieces of acting in the movie.