Ramius Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Its not a matter of wanting to get rid of moulds, its a matter of him not being a gamebreaker anymore and costing us over $10 mil against the cap. Thats the bottom line. I'd love to see moulds stay, hes a solid possession WR and takes pressure off the other WR's (usually). But he isnt worth it for $10+ million. And renegotiating just increases his cap value for next year, and means he'd cost more to cut in a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 The assumption that Evans is automatically going to step up, wihtout Moulds on the other side, is like the assumption Atlanta made that Peerless Price would be a number 1 receiver no matter who was lined up on the other side, or the idea TD had that he could cut Christie and come up with a reliable kicker from just about anywhere. 516245[/snapback] Peerless Price was in the wrong situation....Vick hardly throws and if he does he throws to the TE Crumpler....not to his #1 WR....Otherwise het keeps running the ball, espceially those first 3 years...... We did find the replacement for Christie...just did not hold on to him...Look at the stats that Shayne Graham has been posting for the bengals for the last 2 years.....Remember he was our kicker after the failed Jack Arians experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Its not a matter of wanting to get rid of moulds, its a matter of him not being a gamebreaker anymore and costing us over $10 mil against the cap. Thats the bottom line. I'd love to see moulds stay, hes a solid possession WR and takes pressure off the other WR's (usually). But he isnt worth it for $10+ million. And renegotiating just increases his cap value for next year, and means he'd cost more to cut in a year. 516357[/snapback] How can you be a game breaker when the team went with a QB with no experience to a QB that couldn't throw the ball beyond 5 yards???? Add in the fact that this team gives it's QB zero time to throw the ball deep. There's more than a good chance that Eric's low production is tied into these facts. Please tell me who will replace Eric in 2006, Lee Evans? Yeah right, he's been quite the game breaker this season! ...and who will be the Bills other starting wideout???? Moulds is one of the few guys on this team that's solid, you don't know this because you're only looking at his stats. Hard to attain lofty numbers when the caliber of QB throwing the ball was an all time low for the majority of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Is he worth a 10 mil cap hit looking at it in a vacuum, no. Is he worth it to the Bills and for the development of Losman, probably. I don't think with all the other cuts that we'll be hurting for cap room. Sometimes you just have to overpay a guy. Look at SD with Rivers/Brees. Of course, knowing TD, he'll cut Moulds, Losman's devlopment will be stunted, and TD will feed us some bull about the offense needing to be more consistent as we stumble to 8-8. Then, in the 06 offseason, TD will go looking for a WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 i am not convinced we should cut anyone on the list because i have no faith in donohoe's ability to find a better player for any amount of money. so needless to day, i am not very optimistic about '06 either, because the players on the original list are all gettig old fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Is Quinn Early still available? We can probably get him cheaper than Moulds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 How can you be a game breaker when the team went with a QB with no experience to a QB that couldn't throw the ball beyond 5 yards???? Add in the fact that this team gives it's QB zero time to throw the ball deep. There's more than a good chance that Eric's low production is tied into these facts. Please tell me who will replace Eric in 2006, Lee Evans? Yeah right, he's been quite the game breaker this season! ...and who will be the Bills other starting wideout???? Moulds is one of the few guys on this team that's solid, you don't know this because you're only looking at his stats. Hard to attain lofty numbers when the caliber of QB throwing the ball was an all time low for the majority of the season. 516387[/snapback] don't get me wrong. i really like moulds. i think that his '98 season was the greatest season by a bills receiver in history - he caught only 68 balls, but the way he caught them and the yards attached were what mattered. so i'm forever appreciative for that. however, the parade of qbs he's had simply can't explain away this: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/MoulEr00.htm his ypc has declined *every year* since 1998!!! and now it's below 10 ypc, which puts him into TE/3rd down running back range. i simply can't believe that the bills can't find a guy -- bobby engram, darrel jackson, eddie kennison, etc. etc. -- who can't produce at a higher level. always remember that joey galloway and keenan mccardell are making far less money than moulds, and are significantly more productive than he is. as for moulds, he's probably better off going to another team, and i'll be the first to wish him well. he'd be perfect for the eagles, for instance -- a far cheaper ($2 mill/year) and more sane version of TO with a similar (although not as talented) skill set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I'd like to find out how many catches a big, physical receiver like EM has, even this year, that have gone for first downs, or even better, turned 2nd and 10 into 3rd and 2. I don't think you can only look at YPC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I'd like to find out how many catches a big, physical receiver like EM has, even this year, that have gone for first downs, or even better, turned 2nd and 10 into 3rd and 2. I don't think you can only look at YPC. 516425[/snapback] i'm sorry, but if you're one of the highest paid receivers in the league, you've got to perform like one. that means getting separation, getting open deep, and scoring TDs. 9.5 ypc simply doesn't cut it for the amount of money he's making. there are a ton of guys who do what he does. like i said, he's a great bill, the best of the last 10 years. i wish him well. but he is simply not the same guy as in the past. that said, in a different system -- philly's -- he'd be quite productive and a real asset. that's what i expect will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 there are a ton of guys who do what he does. Like who? And I'm only talking acquire-able, free agents here. Don't tell me Marvin Harrison or Chad Johnson. that means getting separation, getting open deep, and scoring TDs. 9.5 ypc simply doesn't cut it for the amount of money he's making Add in a 48 yard game winning TD against the Panthers and how would he look? How about all those early throws JP missed in the first 4 games? Holcomb doesn't exactly have a bazooka, so maybe that dragged down his YPC a bit. Remember it takes two to tango, don't look at the numbers in a vacuum. Lets take a look at what happens the next 5 games. JP seemed to be establishing a bit of a connection with EM, and I expect when you compare his numbers from the last 5 games, they will be much improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Like who? And I'm only talking acquire-able, free agents here. Don't tell me Marvin Harrison or Chad Johnson.Add in a 48 yard game winning TD against the Panthers and how would he look? How about all those early throws JP missed in the first 4 games? Holcomb doesn't exactly have a bazooka, so maybe that dragged down his YPC a bit. Remember it takes two to tango, don't look at the numbers in a vacuum. Lets take a look at what happens the next 5 games. JP seemed to be establishing a bit of a connection with EM, and I expect when you compare his numbers from the last 5 games, they will be much improved. 516435[/snapback] like i said, there are a ton of guys who can grab 75 catches for 710 yards and 4 tds a season. peerless price comes to mind. chris patten. brandon lloyd. bobby engram. peter warrick. in other words, ordinary guys. they tend to come cheap too. as for the qbs, i'll grant you that, but with regard to the overthrow against the panthers, we're talking about *one* play. how many times have they called a deep route for him in the last couple of years in which he hasn't broken free? a lot, as far as i can tell. more importantly, you're talking about one play, and i'm talking about a steady seven year decline. finally, i am absolutely convinced that moulds became a different and lesser player after he tore his groin against cincy in game 7 of the 03 season. that's a truly debilitating injury, and it's the same one that bryce paup suffered. it really cuts into your mobility. paup, of course, was never the same player again. so far, EM hasn't proven to be either. he was great up until that play, and he's been ordinary ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bflojohn Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 IF the Bills were to cut ties with Eric, the simple solution is to have his replacement on the roster! The #1 option this offseason is Reggie Wayne. He is, IMO, a number one reciever in waiting. Younger, faster, quicker, and more productive now than Eric. The Bills would have to be on "speed dial" March 2nd, however, they've done that before with a fairly good success rate! Oh, and in addition, the Colts couldn't possibly have any more money for that offense!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I don't know...Reggie Wayne has "Peerless Price" written all over him. To me, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I don't know...Reggie Wayne has "Peerless Price" written all over him. To me, at least. 516458[/snapback] he was a first round pick by polian. that has to count for something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 like i said, there are a ton of guys who can grab 75 catches for 710 yards and 4 tds a season. peerless price comes to mind. chris patten. brandon lloyd. bobby engram. peter warrick. in other words, ordinary guys. they tend to come cheap too. Those guys ever catch 88 for 1043? Thats what EM did last season. Given the QB carousal this year, I'm willing to say that the 88/1043 is what EM is going to give you. Thats 11.9 YPC and just fine. In fact, I'm willing to bet that EM will end the final 5 games this year on pace to put up those numbers. He seemed to jell with JP in the last couple of weeks. finally, i am absolutely convinced that moulds became a different and lesser player after he tore his groin against cincy in game 7 of the 03 season. that's a truly debilitating injury, and it's the same one that bryce paup suffered. it really cuts into your mobility. paup, of course, was never the same player again. so far, EM hasn't proven to be either. he was great up until that play, and he's been ordinary ever since. I agree completely about the groin. Prior to that play EM was top 5 in the NFL, a true playmaker. Now, he's not the same player. But as evidenced by last year's numbers, and remember, we were no offensive juggernaut, I think he's still very capable. Finally, I'm not saying sign the guy long term, but giving him another year to act as security blanket while all our young offensive players develop (JP, Willis, Roscoe, Evans, Everett etc.) is not a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 If you get Moulds to restructure and subtract a couple million from his cap figure then you keep him. He still looked great out there Sunday. He was and has been open. At the Pats game he was a man among boys and Sunday he was open consistently. He was open on the most important play of the game too by the way. Lose Moulds and you have no replacement. You will not find a suitable replacement for him on this roster so you take his 5+M salary cap hit and pay another receiver 4M a year to get the same cap figure Moulds would have. Not too swift. Unless you get Terrell Owens in here you will not get a WR the caliber of Moulds (I know TO is much better than Moulds at this point). Re-structure Moulds and keep him especially now that he and JP appear to have a rhythm together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 i'm sorry, but if you're one of the highest paid receivers in the league, you've got to perform like one. that means getting separation, getting open deep, and scoring TDs. 9.5 ypc simply doesn't cut it for the amount of money he's making. there are a ton of guys who do what he does. like i said, he's a great bill, the best of the last 10 years. i wish him well. but he is simply not the same guy as in the past. that said, in a different system -- philly's -- he'd be quite productive and a real asset. that's what i expect will happen. 516428[/snapback] So he's not good for the Bills who haven't sniffed the playoffs in forever, but he's perfect for the Eagles who do nothing but pass and have real honest to goodness Superbowl aspirations every year. You speak with a lot of confidence but you're making absolutely no sense here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 So he's not good for the Bills who haven't sniffed the playoffs in forever, but he's perfect for the Eagles who do nothing but pass and have real honest to goodness Superbowl aspirations every year. You speak with a lot of confidence but you're making absolutely no sense here. 516486[/snapback] read what i said again. he's certainly worth it if he plays for $1.5-2 million a year. his current contract calls for a *lot* more than that, and his production - which, again, has steadily declined - doesn't merit such an exorbitant salary. if he is let go, he is likely to get a salary in the range of what I say above - about $1.5-2 million, which is less than half of what he is scheduled to make next year. since players cut from a team after the season hardly ever go back to them during the free agent signing period (troy brown is one exception), i'd expect moulds to land elsewhere. why would he want to return here? it's a bad team with an unproven qb and it just gave him the heave ho. given how close philly is and the nature of their offense, moulds would be an excellent fit at the $1.5-2 million price (and you can bet they won't overpay). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Those guys ever catch 88 for 1043? Thats what EM did last season. Given the QB carousal this year, I'm willing to say that the 88/1043 is what EM is going to give you. Thats 11.9 YPC and just fine. 516477[/snapback] that 88 catch season was last year, not this year. he's in decline, and i doubt he'll match those relatively modest numbers again in a bills uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 read what i said again. he's certainly worth it if he plays for $1.5-2 million a year. his current contract calls for a *lot* more than that, and his production - which, again, has steadily declined - doesn't merit such an exorbitant salary. if he is let go, he is likely to get a salary in the range of what I say above - about $1.5-2 million, which is less than half of what he is scheduled to make next year. since players cut from a team after the season hardly ever go back to them during the free agent signing period (troy brown is one exception), i'd expect moulds to land elsewhere. why would he want to return here? it's a bad team with an unproven qb and it just gave him the heave ho. given how close philly is and the nature of their offense, moulds would be an excellent fit at the $1.5-2 million price (and you can bet they won't overpay). 516492[/snapback] You're so off on Eric's salary worth it's not even funny. If he were to be cut there'd be a line of teams vying for his services and he'd get about a 3 year contract in the 5 million per year range with a 5 million signing bonus. Other NFL teams know how screwed Moulds was in 2005 with how badly the QB situation pulled his numbers down. Although Eric may be making a million or two more than he's worth, you don't cut your nose off to spite your face. The Bills offense would no doubt be so screwed without him in 2006. If Moulds is cut who's the Bills #1 receiver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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