Pat Williams' Comments

[IDBillzFan]

What is your definition of "overpaid?" Pat Williams got what he was worth. I know one thing for sure our defense wouldn't be ranked last in rushing yards against this year if big Pat was lining up next to Sam Adams. To answer your question...yes, hell yes. If bird brain didn't have a someone that is the quality of player Pat is then yes he should of come to an agreement with Williams.

515006[/snapback]

I'm not a salary cap nut, but I'm not an idiot, either. You can't pay Pat Williams what he wanted in our scenario without having to take that money from someone else we may have needed.

 

So you give Pat his money. Where does it come from this year? Moulds? Evans? McGee?

 

I'm not sure why so many people think owners of football teams have money-making machines in the basement and no salary cap.

[Sound_n_Fury]

Unfortunately for us, our youngsters haven't stepped up their game.....

514586[/snapback]

 

 

If the Bills hierarchy is like most organizations, top execs like TD depend on the assessment and recommendations of the managers in the chain of command. In the case of the D-line, that would be Krumrie and Gray. Obviously, both thought the young guys were capable of filling the hole left by PW's departure. And perhaps more importantly, indicating that SA still had something left in his tank.

 

Contrary to what many posters believe, TD doesn’t make personnel decisions in a vacuum. If Tom’s performance in addressing the D-line has been mediocre, part of the blame has to fall on Krumrie, who’s something of a sacred cow around TSW because of his appealing personality/history as a player (Gray already gets his share of blame here, so I won‘t repeat that effort now).

 

If I remember correctly, Tim Anderson was drafted because Krumrie liked him a lot (e.g., he wrestled TK better than any other prospect during his OSU workout). I’m not mentioning this to slag Krumrie specifically--the same thing applies to Mouse McNally on the OL--just to point out that TD does not make decisions unilaterally. In the scouting area, this also applies to Tom Modrak and his team.

 

TD is the ultimate buck stop, but the collective underperformance by management/coaching/scouting has been the biggest disappointment for me this season.

[colin]

If the Bills hierarchy is like most organizations, top execs like TD depend on the assessment and recommendations of the managers in the chain of command.  In the case of the D-line, that would be Krumrie and Gray.  Obviously, both thought the young guys were capable of filling the hole left by PW's departure.  And perhaps more importantly, indicating that SA still had something left in his tank. 

 

Contrary to what many  posters believe, TD doesn’t make personnel decisions in a vacuum.  If Tom’s performance in addressing the D-line has been mediocre, part of the blame has to fall on Krumrie, who’s something of a sacred cow around TSW because of his appealing personality/history as a player (Gray already gets his share of blame here, so I won‘t repeat that effort now). 

 

If I remember correctly, Tim Anderson was drafted because Krumrie liked him a lot (e.g., he wrestled TK better than any other prospect during his OSU workout).  I’m not mentioning this to slag  Krumrie specifically--the same thing applies to Mouse McNally on the OL--just to point out that TD does not make decisions unilaterally.  In the scouting area, this also applies to Tom Modrak and his team. 

 

TD is the ultimate buck stop, but the collective underperformance by management/coaching/scouting has been the biggest disappointment for me this season.

515012[/snapback]

 

i agree.

 

fire them all

[SDS]

What is your definition of "overpaid?" Pat Williams got what he was worth. I know one thing for sure our defense wouldn't be ranked last in rushing yards against this year if big Pat was lining up next to Sam Adams. To answer your question...yes, hell yes. If bird brain didn't have a someone that is the quality of player Pat is then yes he should of come to an agreement with Williams.

515006[/snapback]

 

Quite the ignorant stance on your part...

 

Who decides what Pat is worth? Considering he is in the 1st year of his contract how could you POSSIBLY determine his contract was worth it?

 

Whose money would he have taken? Which players on this team would be gone as a result of that signing?

 

Instead of just dumping on Donahoe maybe you should actually think through some of these issues.

[Bill from NYC]

Quite the ignorant stance on your part...

 

Who decides what Pat is worth?  Considering he is in the 1st year of his contract how could you POSSIBLY determine his contract was worth it?

 

Whose money would he have taken?  Which players on this team would be gone as a result of that signing?

 

Instead of just dumping on Donahoe maybe you should actually think through some of these issues.

515019[/snapback]

 

I agree. Last year I sat in the first row directly behind Pat Williams, and he looked as if he could barely walk. I for one was against a long term committment to PW.

 

Many fans seem to forget how much harm is done to a football team when old, overpaid players hit the wall and need to be cut. It cost the Bills something in the neighborhood of 11 million dollars of cap space just to cut Fina and Ostroski; two completely useless stiffs.

 

Also, PW was on the Bills last season and they still were not great at holding opponents on crucial 3rd and long plays.

PW is often talked about on this board as if he is a reincarnate of Mean Joe Greene. He is not. He is a good, albeit aging and overweight DT. He was a good anchor against the run most of the time, yet brought little to the table in terms of pass pressure.

 

The Bills took a major hit this season when they lost him because Edwards was injured and Anderson developed slower than expected. That said, letting him move on was probably a good thing.

[RJsackedagain]

I agree. Last year I sat in the first row directly behind Pat Williams, and he looked as if he could barely walk. I for one was against a long term committment to PW.

 

Many fans seem to forget how much harm is done to a football team when old, overpaid players hit the wall and need to be cut. It cost the Bills something in the neighborhood of 11 million dollars of cap space just to cut Fina and Ostroski; two completely useless stiffs.

 

Also, PW was on the Bills last season and they still were not great at holding opponents on crucial 3rd and long plays.

PW is often talked about on this board as if he is a reincarnate of Mean Joe Greene. He is not. He is a good, albeit aging and overweight DT. He was a good anchor against the run most of the time, yet brought little to the table in terms of pass pressure.

 

The Bills took a major hit this season when they lost him because Edwards was injured and Anderson developed slower than expected. That said, letting him move on was probably a good thing.

515068[/snapback]

 

Hey, the Bills used to be able to let players like Pat walk away and have decent replacements. Now, they don't even have decent starters --- anyone still a fan of Mike "I don't like Football" Williams or care to keep him around?

All I'm saying is losing Williams was a mistake on TD's part. He was a good team guy, played hard and wanted to stay in Buffalo for less money. Sam Adams showed his true colors Sunday by going home to cry instead of staying to support his teammates --- glad we kept him around this year at a couple million.

When you start making a series of bad decisions like letting Pat go, hiring Gregg Williams, signing Bennie Anderson, drafting Mike Williams, not filling holes on either line etc., adding Buffalo Billie--- they add up after a while and leave you with a non-playoff team.

I'll give TD credit for getting the team under the cap, but can you honest tell me this team is any better now on the field than right before TD took over???? And why does this guy have to always say "we'll evaluate things at the end of the season" --- hasn't he ever heard of "in-season adjustments" when the games still count!

Where are the playoff games? division titles? afc championships?? winning records??

I'm sick of settling for mediocrity with this team and as a fellow Bills fan you should be too.

OK, enough of my annual midseason meltdown

[Bill from NYC]

Hey, the Bills used to be able to let players like Pat walk away and have decent replacements. Now, they don't even have decent starters --- anyone still a fan of Mike "I don't like Football" Williams or care to keep him around?

All I'm saying is losing Williams was a mistake on TD's part. He was a good team guy, played hard and wanted to stay in Buffalo for less money. Sam Adams showed his true colors Sunday by going home to cry instead of staying to support his teammates --- glad we kept him around this year at a couple million.

When you start making a series of bad decisions like letting Pat go, hiring Gregg Williams, signing Bennie Anderson, drafting Mike Williams, not filling holes on either line etc., adding Buffalo Billie--- they add up after a while and leave you with a non-playoff team.

I'll give TD credit for getting the team under the cap, but can you honest tell me this team is any better now on the field than right before TD took over???? And why does this guy have to always say "we'll evaluate things at the end of the season" --- hasn't he ever heard of "in-season adjustments" when the games still count!

Where are the playoff games? division titles? afc championships?? winning records??

I'm sick of settling for mediocrity with this team and as a fellow Bills fan you should be too.

OK, enough of my annual midseason meltdown

515164[/snapback]

 

LOL! Hey, I am with you, my angry friend. This season I am doing a better job at not getting as angry/sad about this team as in other seasons.

 

As bad as they are, and given TD's many screwups, it sure is great to be a part of all this. This season will be over in a flash. The pain will cease, and R.Rich will have some great things going on at the TSW college board.

That said, I wish I had more faith in TD to be able to help this football team, early picks and all.

[Spiderweb]

So I was seeing things the last 2 years when Pat became an all or nothing DT , who lunged into the backfield to either make a big play or leave a gaping hole ( most of the time ) where he was supposed to be, correct ?

 

I was upset to see us not have a quality replacement. I was NOT upset to see him leave. I don't give a sh-- what beat writer states otherwise.

514558[/snapback]

 

 

??? What games were you watching? First the run defense was much better, no compariosn to what we have now. Second, Phat Pat was usually playing two gaps and did them well tying up two OL's on almost every play. If anyone was the gap shooting, all or nothing guy, it was Sam, and I'd have to say that especially during the winning streak last year, Sam played extremely well. Our problems last year had nothing to do with the DT position(s).

[Jukester]

Pat Williams was asked if he had an explanation for Buffalo's decision to allow him to hit the free-agent market after last season.

"They are dumb," he said. "That's all I can say. They are dumb as can be up there."

 

see article

 

I can't say that I disagree with him. This is especially poignant considering all the issues with Sam Adams right now.

[Billsjunkie]

Amen. Not much love from ex-players thats for sure.

TD is going to run this team into the ground. I dont care what anyone says. FA are not going to want to come to this circus. Its not joke that were right on pace with the cards for wins in the last five years.

[colin]

i remember when big pat and ruben talked to sam adams about coming in for us.

 

TD did a bad job ditching rueben, we haven't found a LG since.

 

TD did a bad job ditching pat, essentially adams was a compliemnt to Pat, so losing Pat also hurt adams ability to do what he does best, which means we just lost the middle of our line.

 

i think sam and rueben had their problems because of the coaches, gregg was canned and MM or at least TC will be canned this year, so we hung out our best big men because of our bad coaches who we are ditching anyhow.

 

i am a let arrival on the kill TD bandwagon, but what is said above is true, he just makes too many mistakes that together show a lack of direction.

[justnzane]

The Bills took a major hit this season when they lost him because Edwards was injured and Anderson developed slower than expected. That said, letting him move on was probably a good thing.

515068[/snapback]

 

amen to that... i thought it was funnyyou were the first to even mention edwards. Once him and TKO got injured the bills D started looking like a junior varsity team. I grant you that edwards is not a greatplayer, but he is serviceable given his cap figures and the "talent" that has replaced him.

[inkman]

I don't think anything TD does will ever be good enough for people in this town.

 

I'm not saying he is good or isn't but some of the decisions being questioned make me wonder about the football knowledge floating around this message board.

[inkman]

I would question the signing of Bennie Anderson more than anything to do with PW.

 

I would also question the decision to go with Gandy at left tackle. I don't think he's terrible but he couldn't have been the only option. Drafting a tackle or signing one slightly better might have been ideal.

[Rico]

I would question the signing of Bennie Anderson more than anything to do with PW.

515430[/snapback]

Agreed...now that was as dumb as can be.

 

I wasn't happy to see PW leave, but TD couldn't pay him that much jack considering his age.

As for a replacement, TD could've done better, but the fact is he's still reeling from his past mistakes. In a perfect world, he's got:

- a stud QB in Drew

- a nice receiving corps led by Eric Moulds and the ever-reliable, clutch Josh Reed.

Unfortunately, 2003 blew up in his face, & he couldn't afford to draft a Wilfork to replace PW or draft a Grove in the 2nd round to enforce the line.

He had to address QB & WR to make up for the Bledsoe/Reed fiascos.

[Buftex]

So I was seeing things the last 2 years when Pat became an all or nothing DT , who lunged into the backfield to either make a big play or leave a gaping hole ( most of the time ) where he was supposed to be, correct ?

 

I was upset to see us not have a quality replacement. I was NOT upset to see him leave. I don't give a sh-- what beat writer states otherwise.

514558[/snapback]

 

 

I think it was the combination of Adams and Williams that allowed the team to be so effective at stopping the run. Both Adams and Williams are "all or nothing" DT's, you can get by with two of those. When you have only one, and there is nobody there to pick up the guy you missed, you have big problems...I think that is the bone of contention between Adams and MM now. The Bills want Adams to sit back, like the traditional DT, and concentrate on stopping the run. That is not how Adams became a pro-bowler. The strength of his game is busting through the O-line and wreaking havoc on the offense. When he gets in the backfield, a number of things can happen:

 

A- QB has to get rid of the ball quicker than he would like

B- RB is tackled for a loss

C- a turnover

D- the ball carrier evades Adams, and rips off a big gain...

 

When D happened in the pass, Williams was there on most downs, to get Adams whiffs. That isn't happening now...

 

 

In the end, it was probably not a huge mistake to let Williams go. He is on the wrong side of 30, and was showing signs of age, and was looking for more money than he will likely prove to be worth...the big mistake, as you point out, was not replacing him with someone who was established. I still think TD's oddest move of the off-season, was not to even show any interest in Corey Simon.

Having two run plugging DT's is such a huge advantage in the NFL. Our defense was at its' very best when we had Williams and Washington, and later Williams and Adams. Very few teams could run on those DT pairings. And when an offense can't run, they tend to have difficulty doing most everything else...

[ganesh]

So stuffing the run on 1st and 2nd and thus setting up longer 3rd down yardage doesn't have anything to do with it?  I was hoping along with everyone else that losing PW wouldn't hurt the Bills.  I think that hope has been dashed, however.

514890[/snapback]

I did not say that....In fact m,entioned that in another thread....

 

One of the problems is this team did not stop the good teams against the run..

Teams like the Patriots and Steelers used their run games to run against this

overrated defense even last year....with PW or without......This year they got

to play some of the best RBs in the league, a Warrick Dunn, Larry Johnson,

LT, Dillon, McCallister, Jordan.....The better backs have exposed this teams

run defense even more....

 

Last year we beat the bad teams ike the 49ers, Rams, etc...who had no dominant run game....

[stuckincincy]

I think it was the combination...

515476[/snapback]

 

Good post, Buftex. Lewis in CIN was very much interested in Simon. They are a bit cap-strapped (Palmer's contract to some extent), but I guess IND is in that boat, too...dunno.

 

Only speculation, but perhaps Simon wanted to go to IND because of their legit SB possibilities.

[Cheeseburger_in_paradise]

I think it was the combination of Adams and Williams that allowed the team to be so effective at stopping the run.  Both Adams and Williams are "all or nothing" DT's, you can get by with two of those.  When you have only one, and there is nobody there to pick up the guy you missed, you have big problems...I think that is the bone of contention between Adams and MM now.  The Bills want Adams to sit back, like the traditional DT, and concentrate on stopping the run.  That is not how Adams became a pro-bowler.  The strength of his game is busting through the O-line and wreaking havoc on the offense.  When he gets in the backfield, a number of things can happen:

 

A- QB has to get rid of the ball quicker than he would like

B- RB is tackled for a loss

C- a turnover

D- the ball carrier evades Adams, and rips off a big gain...

 

When D happened in the pass, Williams was there on most downs, to get Adams whiffs.  That isn't happening now...

In the end, it was probably not a huge mistake to let Williams go.  He is on the wrong side of 30, and was showing signs of age, and was looking for more money than he will likely prove to be worth...the big mistake, as you point out, was not replacing him with someone who was established. I still think TD's oddest move of the off-season, was not to even show any interest in Corey Simon.

Having two run plugging DT's is such a huge advantage in the NFL.  Our defense was at its' very best when we had Williams and Washington, and later Williams and Adams.  Very few teams could run on those DT pairings.  And when an offense can't run, they tend to have difficulty doing most everything else...

515476[/snapback]

 

Great points. I believe I read the Vikings are paying him 13 mil for a three year contract. Huge fan of Pat, but don't think he would have been worth it. Not too shabby for an origianally undrafted free agent. Wonder how close the Bill's came to keeping him.

[BB2004]

Uh, hello!  Did we NOT see firsthand how Pat looks when he's all alone at DT?  It's called 2001 and 2002, people, when he was younger and in his prime!  Now he's playing next to Pro Bowl DT Kevin Williams.  And his age and contract would have been an albatross for the Bills.  The Bills made the right move, although I wish someone had been able to step-in and fill his shoes.

514504[/snapback]

 

Agreed. Letting go of Pat was a mistake and most understand this. The question is, what are we going to do about it? If we continue to lose, maybe Gabe Watson of Michigan will be an option for us.