Mike Williams

[DeeRay]

On the play that MW was injured on today, he simply got blown up. It was a running play and whoever it was that lined up across from him pushed him 2 yards backwards.

 

Now, Mike's future (or lack thereof)

If you are the Bills, you have 3 options...

* hold onto him

* outright cut him

* offer him a massive pay cut to stay.

 

I see it coming down to the latter 2

 

If you are Mike, and you are offered a paycut or getting cut, what do you do?

If he takes a paycut to around the $1.8-2M level, at least he's employed at a fairly decent salary for the bum of a player he is. But, even that doesn't save him from ultimately being cut by the Bills. If he gets cut, what team is going to pay this guy even $1.5M/year? And, whatever team does sign him, how many incentives and escape clauses is the team going to work into the contract?

 

This guy is a gifted athlete for his size, but he is the Benoit Benjamin of the NFL... an absolute disgrace and slap in the face to any player that has proudly played and performed to their potential in the NFL.

[Fan in San Diego]

I would try the pay cut option first. If MW refuses then cut him.

I also would cut Bennie Anderson , Villareal and Teague. Draft as many OL as possible and hire FA position to fill in the blanks that the draft cant solve.

 

To think we passed on Freeney for MW ?

[Golden Wheels]

To think we passed on Freeney for MW ?

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I remember suggesting Freeney as the Bills 1st round pick that year, and was criticized by a number of posters here that said you couldn't take someone as "undersized" as Freeney when Big Mike was such an attractive draft choice because of his size and physical tools.

 

Unfortunately, they can't measure heart at the Combine.

[X. Benedict]

I think he could be a guard about the caliber of B. Anderson.

[seq004]

I think he could be a guard about the caliber of B. Anderson.

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[Pete]

I remember suggesting Freeney as the Bills 1st round pick that year, and was criticized by a number of posters here that said you couldn't take someone as "undersized" as Freeney when Big Mike was such an attractive draft choice because of his size and physical tools.

 

Unfortunately, they can't measure heart at the Combine.

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I lobbied for Ryan Sims. We most definatley could use Freeney or Sims more now then Williams

[34-78-83]

I remember suggesting Freeney as the Bills 1st round pick that year, and was criticized by a number of posters here that said you couldn't take someone as "undersized" as Freeney when Big Mike was such an attractive draft choice because of his size and physical tools.

 

Unfortunately, they can't measure heart at the Combine.

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In hindsight we can all see that your suggestion would have worked out great, but do you think that they honestly would have even considered that pick after the Corey Moore experiment? He was the same guy as Freeney in college. In fact , he held the sack record that Freeney broke if I'm not mistaken.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

In hindsight we can all see that your suggestion would have worked out great, but do you think that they honestly would have even considered that pick after the Corey Moore experiment? He was the same guy as Freeney in college. In fact , he held the sack record that Freeney broke if I'm not mistaken.

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Good point.

 

I personally wanted McKinnie that year. He can't be as bad as Mike is.

[MarkyMannn]

Now, Mike's future (or lack thereof)

If you are the Bills, you have 3 options...

* hold onto him

* outright cut him

* offer him a massive pay cut to stay.

 

I see it coming down to the latter 2

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It actually comes down to the second option. The Bills won't hold onto him because of his salary, and there is no reason for MW to take a pay cut. So they'll release him in the end. Why take a cut to say $1.5m? Some club will believe they can get him to achieve, and offer him like $5-6 million just to sign plus salary. So now he pockets a windfall right up front

[LaDairis]

In hindsight we can all see that your suggestion would have worked out great, but do you think that they honestly would have even considered that pick after the Corey Moore experiment? He was the same guy as Freeney in college. In fact , he held the sack record that Freeney broke if I'm not mistaken.

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Corey Moore looked great at LB before he ruined his ankle on special teams in his third game. Freeney had 30 pounds on Moore and was going to play DE or 3-4 OLB. Moore was strictly 4-3 OLB.

[34-78-83]

Corey Moore looked great at LB before he ruined his ankle on special teams in his third game.  Freeney had 30 pounds on Moore and was going to play DE or 3-4 OLB.  Moore was strictly 4-3 OLB.

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Refresh my memory about the ruined ankle on Moore. A remember an injury but I don't remember it being a "career altering" one. I pretty much just thought he sucked naturally.

 

IMO, either of those guys could have been molded through strength and conditioning coaching (they were still both considered "tweeners") as their frames were similar, although you are right likely that Freeney has a broader wing span and is a shade taller.

[KOKBILLS]

In hindsight we can all see that your suggestion would have worked out great, but do you think that they honestly would have even considered that pick after the Corey Moore experiment? He was the same guy as Freeney in college. In fact , he held the sack record that Freeney broke if I'm not mistaken.

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Well...not really the same type Player...I think Freeney is more easlily compared to say Hugh Douglas than Corey Moore...Freeney was listed as 6-1-266, Moore anywhere from 5-11 to 6-0 and about 225...Moore was seen as a definite Project/Tweener by NFL Teams which explains why he lasted till the late 3rd Round, while many Scouts loved Freeney as a DE Prospect...Most did not see Freeney as a Top 10 DE Prospect, but in retrospect those Scouts were obviously wrong...

 

Plus this Administration had nothing to do with the Moore Pick, so I think that comparison is a bit of a reach...

[LaDairis]

Refresh my memory about the ruined ankle on Moore. A remember an injury but I don't remember it being a "career altering" one. I pretty much just thought he sucked naturally. 

 

IMO, either of those guys could have been molded through strength and conditioning coaching (they were still both considered "tweeners") as their frames were similar, although you are right likely that Freeney has a broader wing span and is a shade taller.

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I remember Moore playing the nickel-backer in preseason as a rook and getting an impressive sack against the Eagles - beating Runyan outside. Moore was incredibly quick, agile, strong, and effective off the edge pass rushing. Moore was to college football what Freeney is to the NFL at DE, but 225 does not cut it at DE in the NFL. Moore really screwed his ankle, I believe, against the Jets on a kick coverage early his rookie year. He had bone frags and should have had surgery. When he came back eight weeks later, he looked like an immobile deer in the headlights. Then he got shot in the offseason. Injuries happen, and the failure of the Corey Moore draft choice was much more of an injury issue as well as an "off the field risk" issue as opposed to a "sukk" issue. There is a difference, and football injuries often are not "just like timeouts..."

[34-78-83]

I remember Moore playing the nickel-backer in preseason as a rook and getting an impressive sack against the Eagles - beating Runyan outside.  Moore was incredibly quick, agile, strong, and effective off the edge pass rushing.  Moore was to college football what Freeney is to the NFL at DE, but 225 does not cut it at DE in the NFL.  Moore really screwed his ankle, I believe, against the Jets on a kick coverage early his rookie year.  He had bone frags and should have had surgery.  When he came back eight weeks later, he looked like an immobile deer in the headlights.  Then he got shot in the offseason.  Injuries happen, and the failure of the Corey Moore draft choice was much more of an injury issue as well as an "off the field risk" issue as opposed to a "sukk" issue.  There is a difference, and football injuries often are not "just like timeouts..."

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Thanks for the follow up. Now I actually remember the mention of the lingering "fragments" from his injury and you're probably right that this did him in.

 

I don't remember him looking like he would do well at LB even before the injury but it appears you have a better memory of him than I do.

 

The "Suck" reference was more of a joke, but thanks anyway for the lesson on injuries

[splinter21]

I remember in the 2004 draft suggesting on this board that we draft DE shaun phillips of purdue university and every one else was drooling over will smith of ohio state. will smith is on NO right now not making as big an impact as phillips has on the chargers D he rushed JP a LOT last week and hes been ripping it up on D so yeah hindsight is 20/20. stuff like that always happens. i just heard from the grapevine that purdue's current star DE who is a junior plans to go into the draft. his name is Ray Edwards. thi syear wasnt a particularly good year for edwards as it also was horrible for purdue as a team as well. However i see so many similarities between his style of play and phillips' play. I have watched both players play live at games as i am a student at purdue and assure you that edwards has a lot of upside to him. wad has phillips playing pass rush OLB instead of a DE(he was a bit light for a pro DE). edwards on the other hand packs a few more pounds and is a solid pass rush. very athletic. anothe rplayer form purdue highly being scouted is Bernard Pollard the strong safety. he is considered a top 3 SS. I can however agree though that our OLine has more pressing needs and would love to see us get D'Brickshaw Ferguson from VT. however i have a huge feeling SF might get him. i know im talking about random things but i guess i was on a flow here and didnt want to stop it

[The Jokeman]

I remember in the 2004 draft suggesting on this board that we draft DE shaun phillips of purdue university and every one else was drooling over will smith of ohio state. will smith is on NO right now not making as big an impact as phillips has on the chargers D he rushed JP a LOT last week and hes been ripping it up on D so yeah hindsight is 20/20. stuff like that always happens. i just heard from the grapevine that purdue's current star DE who is a junior plans to go into the draft. his name is Ray Edwards. thi syear wasnt a particularly good year for edwards as it also was horrible for purdue as a team as well. However i see so many similarities between his style of play and phillips' play. I have watched both players play live at games as i am a student at purdue and assure you that edwards has a lot of upside to him. wad has phillips playing pass rush OLB instead of a DE(he was a bit light for a pro DE). edwards on the other hand packs a few more pounds and is a solid pass rush. very athletic. anothe rplayer form purdue highly being scouted is Bernard Pollard the strong safety. he is considered a top 3 SS. I can however agree though that our OLine has more pressing needs and would love to see us get D'Brickshaw Ferguson from VT. however i have a huge feeling SF might get him. i know im talking about random things but i guess i was on a flow here and didnt want to stop it

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As one who was advocating for us to take Will, I want to point out Smith has 6.5 sacks this season in comparison Phillips has 6.0. Not to mention Smith has more tackles and forced fumbles. Either way I'd be happy to have either one on this team. In terms of Ray Edwards, he has better size then Phillips and as a result be taken sooner. I think he ranks with the 2nd tier DEs and will probably be taken in the 2nd or 3rd Round of the draft pending his combine etc. Pollard on the other hand isn't on my radar.

[stuckincincy]

i know im talking about random things but i guess i was on a flow here and didnt want to stop it

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Eyewitness reports about potential draftees are always welcome. Thanks for the info!

[2003Contenders]

Granted the MW selection has turned out to be a bust of huge proportions. But blaming TD for this particular pick is pure revisionism.

 

Think back...

 

1. That was an especially weak draft with no consensus #4 pick. It was our bad luck to have finished as lousy as 3-13 the previous year, and pick as late as #4. The Chargers, for example, had the luxury of picking #1 overall and getting Eli Manning in 2004 after coming off a 4-12 campaign. Peppers was the hands down top-rated player, but he went #2 because the Texans wanted to draft their franchise QB right away -- and that's what they did with David Carr. The Lions bungled even worse than we did by taking Joey Harrington one pick before us. The word was that Marty Morningweg wanted to take Quentin Jammer, but Millen insisted on Harrington. Millen's decision first cost Marty M his job -- and now the Mooch as well. There were rumblings that we were interested in taking Harrington if he got past the Lions, but I'm not so sure. Our scouts were supposedly concerned that Harrington didn't have the arm strength to throw the ball in the messier conditions in Orchard Park. At the very least we know that TD tried in vain to trade down -- but found no interested trading partners.

 

2. Freeney was considered a big reach when the Colts took him. In fact, Dungy and Polian were roundly curiticized fro taking him so early at the time, as most pundits had him going in the middle or late part of the first round.

 

3. Recall that Bryant McKinney had dominated Freeney in a college game earlier that year, which placed a bit of a damper on Freeney, as many experts thought that this represented a good example of how he would do against quality NFL-caliber OL.

 

4. I think from the outset, we were interested in McKinney. However, he did not impress the coaches and front office with his attitude, when he came in for a visit. Big Mike seemed to have the better "character" and was deemed much more mature. Recall that McKinney was, in fact, a holdout for the Vikings -- and signed just in time (prior to Week 10) to avoid going back into the next year's draft. Meanwhile, Big Mike played for us as a rookie, and was an integral part of an offense that wasn't the reason for our not making it to the playoffs that year. Of course, things have dramatically changed since then with McKinney being described as the best young OT in the game -- and Big Mike labeled a bust and losing his job to an undrafted free agent.

 

 

5. Considering the need for OL help, especially with the pending Bledose trade in the works, TD and staff elected to go the OL route, rather than get first dibs at the top DT in the class. After all, there was no consensus there either. Henderson was the top rated, but he had experienced severe back problems that alarmed scouts. Sims and Haynesworth were rated neck and neck as well. Shaun Rogers fell all the way to the end of the 2nd round because of concerns about his ability to walk -- let alone anchor a defensive line. Then there was Rien Long, who had been the top pass-rushing DT in college and was judged by many as a high 1st rounder. Somehow he lasted until day 2.

 

There is ample enough criticism for TD and that draft that I can't see beating him up too bad for the MW miscalculation. Personally, I am more annoyed with the moving up to get Denney (really just to spite the Steelers), when Rogers and Long were still on the board.

 

Oh, well...