IBTG81 Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Typical response by you! No substance, just smugness and self righteous bullsh--! 512948[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 The AMA is not a union, its a PAC. Physicians are not allowed to unionize - we get hit with anti-trust lawsuits. The health care field is government regulated, just not obviously so. I wish market forces were allowed to bear on the health care field. RTB 512881[/snapback] Right, I only meant to suggest that in one sense it is analogous: Physicians are a sector of people who by dint of their organization can exercise some control over accreditation and other regulations (I assume) and can therefore influence the supply of labor competing for their services. Many professional organizations work in this way with varying amounts of influence. So though not unions, in addition to other objectives they work for the advancement of their members (this point is probably not aknowledged by the AMA, so its just my personal opinion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Right, I only meant to suggest that in one sense it is analogous: Physicians are a sector of people who by dint of their organization can exercise some control over accreditation and other regulations (I assume) and can therefore influence the supply of labor competing for their services. Many professional organizations work in this way with varying amounts of influence. So though not unions, in addition to other objectives they work for the advancement of their members (this point is probably not aknowledged by the AMA, so its just my personal opinion). 513155[/snapback] Exactly. I understood your analogy Finknottle without have to split technical hairs and definitions. But, then again... Take that for what it is worth, I am just a lefty liberal that wants to give everyone else's hard earned money away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Well, Buf, I'll agree with one thing: hard work does not always equal success. However, laziness virtually always guarantees you'll get a free uniform as you extol the benefits of food, folks and fun. And honestly, what part of you believes that people with the most money get to slack off? Most people with money didn't earn it with winning lottery picks. And people with money will tell fast-food drive-thru attendants like yourself that they are NEVER done earning money and ALWAYS worried that they can lose what they have faster than they ever earned it. They actually have to work HARDER than anyone else does because they have greater expectations out of themselves. I wouldn't expect you to realize this behind the clown's nose at Billy's McBurgerland. Also, take a look at your local economy at this very moment. Any idea who comprises the holiday retailers with the biggest smiles? The high-end stores like Nordstroms, etc. Why? Because they're counting on people with extra money to spend, like the baby boomers, to SPEND THEIR MONEY. And what happens when people with money spend money, Buf? C'mon...you can say it. It creates a demand for jobs. Now even people who DON'T want to work can get a job and start creating their own path toward increased income. Wow. People with money sure are lazy and suck, huh? I've never known anyone with so much football knowledge and so little life knowledge. 513072[/snapback] A lot of what you say is true, but it does nothing to prove or disprove that unions are bad. You are losing sight of your own argument....sure the people who own Nordstroms, etc are happy...but go talk to one of their employees, the ones you see hanging the cloths, working behind the perfume counter....it doesn't make a difference to them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 And you would know this how exactly? Please detail for us your experiences at various executive and managerial levels in the corporate world so that we may better understand the basis for your rather firm conclusion. I'd hate to conclude that you really don't have any idea what you are talking about and instead just throw out stupid soundbites (i.e., "corporate welfare") out of a position of total ignorance. 513084[/snapback] I will give you as much detail as you warrent, which is none...I apologize for using soundbytes like "corporate welfare" to explain a concept....it is not the equal of what I was responding to, you know things like "lib-tard" and "flag waver". I was merely asking why, oh eloquent one who always operates from a position of supreme superiority, why should companies like Wal-Mart and Target receive tax incentives for entering a community? They are given these breaks, because they promise to create jobs. They do this, but for the majority of the work force there, they are not making, and will never make enough to support a family, or afford the healthcare plan that the company offers. The argument that I was not making (but happen to agree with) was that unions, while as corrupt as any other entity, have served, and can continue to provide a value to society. Becuase azzes like you and your little whack pack here think they "suck" and because you "hate unions", why not give me the wealth of experience you have, in such matters? My conclusion is firm, because yes, I do have experience in the work world (and I assume you do to) and I do see that many are over compensated for their contribution to their job, while those who are far more productive struggle...go to any hospital....nurses are severly under paid, yet hospital adminstrators leave work at noon on Fridays, so they can spend part of their not so hard earned triple diget salary...yeah, they might have gone to school, and may have a better education, but they are well paid. So why shouldn't the nurse make enough to support her family? I know, if she wasn't so stupid and lazy, she too could have the same as her bosses... Frankly, I find it offensive that so many here are willing to just assume that all management has earned their way into their position through hard work, and then conversely have no problem drawing the conclusion that anyone without money is just stupid or lazy...I did't realize that Bills fans were such an elite group! I realize that you can't make sweeping generalizations about any class. There are exceptions to everything. I am just willing to give the poor working class schlubs the same benefit of the doubt that you guys seem to want to give the elite...unions, at their core, were created to make things fair...there is enough money to go around to everyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 I will give you as much detail as you warrent, which is none...I apologize for using soundbytes like "corporate welfare" to explain a concept....it is not the equal of what I was responding to, you know things like "lib-tard" and "flag waver". I was merely asking why, oh eloquent one who always operates from a position of supreme superiority, why should companies like Wal-Mart and Target receive tax incentives for entering a community? They are given these breaks, because they promise to create jobs. They do this, but for the majority of the work force there, they are not making, and will never make enough to support a family, or afford the healthcare plan that the company offers. The argument that I was not making (but happen to agree with) was that unions, while as corrupt as any other entity, have served, and can continue to provide a value to society. Becuase azzes like you and your little whack pack here think they "suck" and because you "hate unions", why not give me the wealth of experience you have, in such matters? My conclusion is firm, because yes, I do have experience in the work world (and I assume you do to) and I do see that many are over compensated for their contribution to their job, while those who are far more productive struggle...go to any hospital....nurses are severly under paid, yet hospital adminstrators leave work at noon on Fridays, so they can spend part of their not so hard earned triple diget salary...yeah, they might have gone to school, and may have a better education, but they are well paid. So why shouldn't the nurse make enough to support her family? I know, if she wasn't so stupid and lazy, she too could have the same as her bosses... Frankly, I find it offensive that so many here are willing to just assume that all management has earned their way into their position through hard work, and then conversely have no problem drawing the conclusion that anyone without money is just stupid or lazy...I did't realize that Bills fans were such an elite group! I realize that you can't make sweeping generalizations about any class. There are exceptions to everything. I am just willing to give the poor working class schlubs the same benefit of the doubt that you guys seem to want to give the elite...unions, at their core, were created to make things fair...there is enough money to go around to everyone... 513188[/snapback] Hey KD, why don't you tell buffy what ya do for a living! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Hey KD, why don't you tell buffy what ya do for a living! 513194[/snapback] I could really care less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 I could really care less... 513196[/snapback] I believe the correct phrase would be " I COULDN'T care less"... Yes, I know, nit-picking and adds nothing to the argument. Sorry, the misuse of that phrase just irritates me. Back to the civil war.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 I believe the correct phrase would be " I COULDN'T care less"...Yes, I know, nit-picking and adds nothing to the argument. Sorry, the misuse of that phrase just irritates me. Back to the civil war.... 513202[/snapback] Thanks! You are correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Well, Buf, I'll agree with one thing: hard work does not always equal success. However, laziness virtually always guarantees you'll get a free uniform as you extol the benefits of food, folks and fun. And honestly, what part of you believes that people with the most money get to slack off? Most people with money didn't earn it with winning lottery picks. And people with money will tell fast-food drive-thru attendants like yourself that they are NEVER done earning money and ALWAYS worried that they can lose what they have faster than they ever earned it. They actually have to work HARDER than anyone else does because they have greater expectations out of themselves. I wouldn't expect you to realize this behind the clown's nose at Billy's McBurgerland. Also, take a look at your local economy at this very moment. Any idea who comprises the holiday retailers with the biggest smiles? The high-end stores like Nordstroms, etc. Why? Because they're counting on people with extra money to spend, like the baby boomers, to SPEND THEIR MONEY. And what happens when people with money spend money, Buf? C'mon...you can say it. It creates a demand for jobs. Now even people who DON'T want to work can get a job and start creating their own path toward increased income. Wow. People with money sure are lazy and suck, huh? I've never known anyone with so much football knowledge and so little life knowledge. 513072[/snapback] From a statistical perspective much and probably most of the wealth in this country is not actually earned by the hard work of individuals but is actually givrn to slackers who sleep away much of the day. These nefarious individuals are called babies. We are currently in the midst of the greatest transfer of assets from one generation to the next through inheritance. Less than 10% of the US populaion owns well over 50% of the nation's assets in the last stats I can remember. They have or will transfer the lionshare of these assets to their kids did zero to earn it outside of being born into the correct situation and sucking on the correct tit as kids. Some build this wealth and others fritter it away. However, I have seen no legitimate measure which indicates that rich people work harder or that rich people work less. The world is not controlled nor are the actions of any individuals determined by any dogma be it libersl or conservative. The main thing which seems false here is those who claim it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 From a statistical perspective much and probably most of the wealth in this country is not actually earned by the hard work of individuals but is actually givrn to slackers who sleep away much of the day. These nefarious individuals are called babies. We are currently in the midst of the greatest transfer of assets from one generation to the next through inheritance. Less than 10% of the US populaion owns well over 50% of the nation's assets in the last stats I can remember. They have or will transfer the lionshare of these assets to their kids did zero to earn it outside of being born into the correct situation and sucking on the correct tit as kids. Some build this wealth and others fritter it away. However, I have seen no legitimate measure which indicates that rich people work harder or that rich people work less. The world is not controlled nor are the actions of any individuals determined by any dogma be it libersl or conservative. The main thing which seems false here is those who claim it is. 513211[/snapback] So well put FFS... Yet, you take away all the fun of a good "pissing contest!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 So well put FFS... Yet, you take away all the fun of a good "pissing contest!" 513216[/snapback] You can always count on FFS to cut through all the bs...and add a ton more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 You can always count on FFS to cut through all the bs...and add a ton more! 513219[/snapback] Reality is simply reality here. A lot of wealth and probably most is not earned it is simply passed on from generation to generation. Even that which is earned there is no proof that inherently rich folks work harder or poor folks do no work at all. I'm sorry if folks seem to have built an entire way of thinking around these assumptions but there is little to no basis in fact of that which they use as a basis of their thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Reality is simply reality here. A lot of wealth and probably most is not earned it is simply passed on from generation to generation. Even that which is earned there is no proof that inherently rich folks work harder or poor folks do no work at all. I'm sorry if folks seem to have built an entire way of thinking around these assumptions but there is little to no basis in fact of that which they use as a basis of their thinking. 513257[/snapback] Which is essentially what I was saying in response to LA. He, and his cheerleader, are making this claim that people with money work harder and are smarter than people without money. And, they are also drawing the conclusion that people without, are stupid and lazy. If you don't believe this, you are a "lib-tard" or a "bleeding heart" looking for a handout. It just simply isn't true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Which is essentially what I was saying in response to LA. He, and his cheerleader, are making this claim that people with money work harder and are smarter than people without money. And, they are also drawing the conclusion that people without, are stupid and lazy. If you don't believe this, you are a "lib-tard" or a "bleeding heart" looking for a handout. It just simply isn't true... 513336[/snapback] Buffy, you're missing the point. If you work hard, you have a chance of becoming successful. If you don't, you have zero chance. I would, as would many, love for people to hand me money. It would be great. That would also be in a perfect world. IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN. So, get off your lazy ass, work hard, get educated, and you have a good shot. It's not rocket science, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Buffy, you're missing the point. If you work hard, you have a chance of becoming successful. If you don't, you have zero chance. I would, as would many, love for people to hand me money. It would be great. That would also be in a perfect world. IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN. So, get off your lazy ass, work hard, get educated, and you have a good shot. It's not rocket science, is it? 513339[/snapback] I can't believe you, it is pointless trying to argue with someone who changes the argument at the drop of a hat...what does this have with your expressed loathing of unions? You seem to be suggesting that anyone in a union is lazy and overpaid....that is simply bullsh--! What that hell is your point? I have been in a (weak) union for almost 5 years, nobody has at my job has recieved anything other than the minimum raise our contract guarantees, as 9/11 has been used as an excuse for budget freezing, with no end in sight. Our union is weak, because manangement has made it very clear that they disapprove of union participation. I live in a state where unions are few and far between. We have had employees forced in to early retirement, and they have not been replaced. Essentially, I am doing the job that 3 people used to do. Tell me I am lazy, to my face, and I would likely punch you in the face. I am a manager. I can tell you, first hand, nobody in my office is slacking off, and all who work under me, are very underpaid for their work. They do the work, however, because their love of helping people exceeds their greed, and we appreciate our health benefits. We are lucky, in that we have excellent health benefits, by most standards. I can tell you, the coroporation I am working for is making more money than ever....for someone who does what you do, I find your incredibly simplistic outlook on things very disheartening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Buffy, you're missing the point. If you work hard, you have a chance of becoming successful. If you don't, you have zero chance. I would, as would many, love for people to hand me money. It would be great. That would also be in a perfect world. IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN. So, get off your lazy ass, work hard, get educated, and you have a good shot. It's not rocket science, is it? 513339[/snapback] that is bull sh-- i know lots of people that where in the right place at the right time . they where sh-- and they come out smelling like roses .unions do have good points and bad . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 well when you look at how in the last 2000 + years it has been the employer oppressing the employee, how do you not expect the worker not to take advantage when they have their chance... This is just like the situation in China when the communist party took over.. the Landlords would exploit their workers to the maximum, and then the workers revolted and killed the landlords. It is a fact of life that greed will be the reason why poverty will exist in this world. 513082[/snapback] That's what I meant when I said that unions have almost done their jobs too well over past decades. They gained a lot of leverage and used it to gain concessions from employers, be it private enterprise or the government. When companies go bankrupt all those union and non-union jobs disappear. When the going gets good, unions push for increased benefits for employees, and rightly so. Its the rare union that gives back to the company when the going is bad, especially huge unions like the UAW and SEIU. I don't think that in this country employers oppress workers anymore, so the need for unions has declined. If you don't like your job, you are free to find another. There are plenty of laws in place that prevent workplace abuses for the most part. RTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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