finknottle Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Sorry my firend, it's simple economic theory. You should only get paid what the market allows you to get paid. Don't like it? Find a new job, or become educated. 512712[/snapback] And if the market allows you to get unionized, that's just capitalism. Doesn't matter whether you call it a union or the AMA or the association of national realters, sometimes people working together can wrest a bigger piece of the economic pie. And if it strangles the body it is depending upon, that's the vagaries of capitalism too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Careful OhBF, you are treading on thin ice here...people who suggest things like this seem to disappear around here... 512274[/snapback] Yes, I've noticed that, maybe ala Jimmy Hoffa stye as well. Yet, that doesn't change the fact that as the health care industry continues to consume more and more of a family and business revenues, with increases year by year of more than 3 times the rate of inflation, something will have to give. Socialized medicine may not be the answer, but having no answers at all is far worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 I was the Manager of Labor Relations for one of the largest company's in the U.S. Regarding the GM/Ford issue it is so obvious that weak management was the reason these companies are in the shape they are in. Failure to stand up to the unions in negotiations are pitiful in the area of health care. No solvent company pays the type of health care benefits GM/Ford does. Sound benefits management has workers participating in medical contributions and deductibles. Anyone who has fully paid medical and no or small deductibles are going to have employees who abuse the medical program with runaway costs....it's just a fact of life. GM/Ford had no guts to take on the unions on this issue years ago and are paying dearly for it....the UAW can B word all they want, but NOBODY in industry has the medical coverages they do and stay in business. 512741[/snapback] One should not allow the correct focus on the bad management decisions made by Ford/GM regarding union benefits overshadow the bad management decision they made in their selection and production of cars and products. The union issue is true but simply is a crutch being used as an excuse to overlook some really poor management decisions and strategies by GM/Ford. Toyota and Honda are kicking their butt and they bought the worst of the European companies in Fiat. Them going bankrupt is actually the way the capitalist system is supposed to work. The pain of a lot of American workers taking it in the shorts because they worked for poor management however, may be more than the politics of the American system to take and we may abandon a capitalist approach because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 So, you are against the minimum wage? 512782[/snapback] Absolutely. What morons don't realize is, if you raise the minimum wage, it's going to cost employers more. if it costs employers more, it's going to force people to be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Profits go to those who take initiative, take chances, bust their balls, and are willing to take greater risks than anyone else. Stop blaming the people with the money. People have a choice to do what they want, work where they want, earn what they want and risk what they want. The simple fact that some people are better at it than others doesn't mean those who are better at it should start giving money to those who are not. That's just ridiculous. (Oh, we have too much money. Let's start giving it to other people.) Please. You lefties are so !@#$ing co-dependant, it's downright scary. 512796[/snapback] Ding ding ding!! Thank-you LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Please. You lefties are so !@#$ing co-dependant, it's downright scary. 512796[/snapback] And you are so !@#$ing whip-smart (and narrow minded) it is scary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Ding ding ding!! Thank-you LA. 512859[/snapback] What a shock, the idiot found another idiot on the wall who is as narrow minded as himself....get a room! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 What a shock, the idiot found another idiot on the wall who is as narrow minded as himself....get a room! 512871[/snapback] Sorry lib-tard, LA just owned you. Typical response by you though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Sorry lib-tard, LA just owned you. Typical response by you though... 512874[/snapback] The funny thing is, I never stated any position on the topic of unions, before you started attacking me...typical response by a complete self centered ****! Wow, I was "owned by LA", aren't you jealous? I guess the circle jerk that usually is reserved for the PPP board now travels to all of the boards! I think you are completely full of crap! But, you are king of the board, Pope Ron...now get on with your miserable little life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 And if the market allows you to get unionized, that's just capitalism. Doesn't matter whether you call it a union or the AMA or the association of national realters, sometimes people working together can wrest a bigger piece of the economic pie. And if it strangles the body it is depending upon, that's the vagaries of capitalism too. 512799[/snapback] The AMA is not a union, its a PAC. Physicians are not allowed to unionize - we get hit with anti-trust lawsuits. The health care field is government regulated, just not obviously so. I wish market forces were allowed to bear on the health care field. RTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Profits go to those who take initiative, take chances, bust their balls, and are willing to take greater risks than anyone else. 512796[/snapback] This is an absolutely false statement, which makes the rest of you diatribe untrue...you are either incredibly stupid, naive, or have a great sense of humour....I am willing to bet it is stupid and naive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 This is an absolutely false statement, which makes the rest of you diatribe untrue...you are either incredibly stupid, naive, or have a great sense of humour....I am willing to bet it is stupid and naive... 512900[/snapback] Perhaps you would care to elaborate on your position. I thought LA made a good point. Doesn't hard work = success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Perhaps you would care to elaborate on your position. I thought LA made a good point. Doesn't hard work = success? 512906[/snapback] For the rest of us, yes. For the lib-tards, no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBTG81 Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 The funny thing is, I never stated any position on the topic of unions, before you started attacking me...typical response by a complete self centered ****! Wow, I was "owned by LA", aren't you jealous? I guess the circle jerk that usually is reserved for the PPP board now travels to all of the boards! I think you are completely full of crap! But, you are king of the board, Pope Ron...now get on with your miserable little life! 512875[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 If Wal-Mart is making so much money, why should all of the prophets go to so few, at the expense of so many? 512595[/snapback] Why should Mohammed, Moses, or Jesus for that matter,have to pay more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Perhaps you would care to elaborate on your position. I thought LA made a good point. Doesn't hard work = success? 512906[/snapback] No, in fact, it does not always equal success. I would dare say, in the world of business, it is rarely true. The person with the most money never has to work as hard as the person who helps him grow his fortune. I know, you (or one of the simpletons) will argue that the person with the money earned that right, because they took the risk, made the investment,blah, blah, blah. This too, is not always the case...and before LA or IBtard extoll the virtue of hard work, they shoud take into consideration all of the corporate wellfare that their white collar idols benefit from...the whole country is not made up of middle class white guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 512911[/snapback] Typical response by you! No substance, just smugness and self righteous bullsh--! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 No, in fact, it does not always equal success. I would dare say, in the world of business, it is rarely true. The person with the most money never has to work as hard as the person who helps him grow his fortune. I know, you (or one of the simpletons) will argue that the person with the money earned that right, because they took the risk, made the investment,blah, blah, blah. This too, is not always the case...and before LA or IBtard extoll the virtue of hard work, they shoud take into consideration all of the corporate wellfare that their white collar idols benefit from...the whole country is not made up of middle class white guys. 512939[/snapback] Well, Buf, I'll agree with one thing: hard work does not always equal success. However, laziness virtually always guarantees you'll get a free uniform as you extol the benefits of food, folks and fun. And honestly, what part of you believes that people with the most money get to slack off? Most people with money didn't earn it with winning lottery picks. And people with money will tell fast-food drive-thru attendants like yourself that they are NEVER done earning money and ALWAYS worried that they can lose what they have faster than they ever earned it. They actually have to work HARDER than anyone else does because they have greater expectations out of themselves. I wouldn't expect you to realize this behind the clown's nose at Billy's McBurgerland. Also, take a look at your local economy at this very moment. Any idea who comprises the holiday retailers with the biggest smiles? The high-end stores like Nordstroms, etc. Why? Because they're counting on people with extra money to spend, like the baby boomers, to SPEND THEIR MONEY. And what happens when people with money spend money, Buf? C'mon...you can say it. It creates a demand for jobs. Now even people who DON'T want to work can get a job and start creating their own path toward increased income. Wow. People with money sure are lazy and suck, huh? I've never known anyone with so much football knowledge and so little life knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 We live with a capitalistic economic system. The purpose of any company, be it Ford, GM, whatever, is NOT to supply people with jobs. It's to make as much profit for the shareholders as possible or to supply a service to the taxpayers at the smallest cost. The purpose of Unions is to get as much for their members as possible, and who gives a **** about the shareholders or taxpayers. I think what we're seeing a lot of recently is that unions have actually been doing their jobs too well over the past decades. Companies are going bankrupt and cities are getting control boards to break the unions. What got lost for a lot of unions is that these companies do not exist to supply them with jobs and they bit too much of the hand that fed them. RTB 512308[/snapback] well when you look at how in the last 2000 + years it has been the employer oppressing the employee, how do you not expect the worker not to take advantage when they have their chance... This is just like the situation in China when the communist party took over.. the Landlords would exploit their workers to the maximum, and then the workers revolted and killed the landlords. It is a fact of life that greed will be the reason why poverty will exist in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 No, in fact, it does not always equal success. I would dare say, in the world of business, it is rarely true. The person with the most money never has to work as hard as the person who helps him grow his fortune. I know, you (or one of the simpletons) will argue that the person with the money earned that right, because they took the risk, made the investment,blah, blah, blah. This too, is not always the case...and before LA or IBtard extoll the virtue of hard work, they shoud take into consideration all of the corporate wellfare that their white collar idols benefit from...the whole country is not made up of middle class white guys. 512939[/snapback] And you would know this how exactly? Please detail for us your experiences at various executive and managerial levels in the corporate world so that we may better understand the basis for your rather firm conclusion. I'd hate to conclude that you really don't have any idea what you are talking about and instead just throw out stupid soundbites (i.e., "corporate welfare") out of a position of total ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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