Assessing the 2002 Draft (and TD drafts overall)

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Another post on TSW about Bryant McKinnie led to a series of comments about the 2002 draft and its impacts on the Bills. Given that the start of this good discussion stemmed from the dubious propostion that TD's mistake was taking MW rather than McKinnie (even the thought that McKinnie had a good game -or a good half for the inadequately performing MN offense which luckily was facing and even worse Packers team- caused a lot of debate and actually is simply silly as evidence that no matter how much MW sucks overlooking BM's holdout, to his record with the police and his some bad play on the field because of one half of good football against a bad team is just silly) it seemed useful to revisit the 2002 draft judging it:

 

1. Based on the quality of TD's choices at the time rather than 20/20 hindsight and,

2. A thought of how this draft interplays with TDs total record as a draft lader.

 

Round Pick Overall Pos. Player College

 

 

1 4 4 OT Mike Williams Texas

 

Overall- I think this is a failed pick headed toward being a bust. Ijudge him IMHO as

 

2002- Good rookie year in a productive offense. His QB took too many sacks, but proved to be productive as both Bledsoe and Moulds made the Pro Bowl while other WR PP got 94 catches. Meanwhile, MW and the OL blocked productively for Henry's 1400+ rushing performance that got him in as a Pro Bowl reserve as well. The sack failings can be linked somewhat to the rookie MW's failings but even moreso they seem to be the fault of an immobile QB, a predictable O which Gilbride refused to change and other OL issues that year which saw Ruben be the only player with any starts ever at his position. MW looked very good as a player on a productive O and its hard to rationally complain much about him having many problems as all rookies must adjust and few are a part of such a productiver O and a team which saw its record improve from 3-13 to 8-8.

 

 

2003- The overall OL production was much the same statistically as once again the lead runner had a good year rushing and the pass pro gave up too many sacks. However, these particular stats do not tell the story of the ultimate stat of this team finishing 6-10 with poor production by the O as a major factor in this downturn. MW's game in particular suffered as the tale was told too often by him and RG Mike Pacillo staring at each other over the sacked body of Drew Bledsoe with body language which screamed "I thought you had him" as these two failed to cooridinate on stunts and joined the rest of the OL in being bad. Was the reason for this something inherent in MW which should have been assessed in him by TD and the Bills? Hard to say and really who knows. However, given that he had a very good year the year before and he issue is he failed to continue his progress from college to the pro ball there are other factors which at least are relevant:

 

A. His coaching was piss poor as GW is not an O guy, Kevin Killdrive refused to change from his way despite the league getting tons of tape on the Bills and BB and NE providing a roadmap on how to undress the Bills O, and also OL coach Vinky having only had one year at the position.

B. He needed more schooling and help from his vet peers, yet he ended up being responsible for teaching the not ready for primetime Pacillo at RG.

 

2004- The problems this year were all on MW as he reacted unprofessionally to death of the Grandmother who raised him and missed all of the minicamps and then showed up to training camp overweight and out of shape. Being hit hard by your Grammy who raised you dying is certainly understandable, but it is not condonable for someone in his business as well paid as he is.

 

Fortunately, with good support and great training by JMac (good use of the stick in threatening to move him inside and the carrot of giving him a gameball when he played well last season) he did get it together and had what some have called his best year as a Bill and give him credit for being the best OL player on the team (though whether being the best Bill OL player is saying much is another question.

 

Still the damage was done. With his #4 slot, MW carried the cap hit of a player who should have a least been the LT and should have been the recognized leader on the team. Things were set-up for this given the Bills correctly let JJ go rather than pay him LT bucks. However his lost year delayed him moving until 2006 after he proved himself this year.

 

2005- He simply has not proved himself to be a starting LT or even a consistent OL player this year. This may be due to injury, this may be due to the bad breaks of poor training and Grammy dying, this may be because he is simply a wennie as a player. It does not matter why. The fact is that he cannot take down the 2006 salary he is slated to make and be an inconsistent OL player.

 

Real world grade- D (headed toward F when he gets cut).

 

TD's grade in hindsight- B Like it or not he was judged as a great pick (a shoo in as an NFL talent according to Buschbaum) by tons of pundits (Kiper, Great North, PFW, Buschnaum, etc.). One can fault him for not trading down in hindsight and getting Levi Jones (a #10 pick by the Bengals who has done well at LT), but the Jones pick was lambasted by many at the time as a reach. Demanding that TD see this is such 20/20 hindsight as to be even beyond my silliness is wishing that reality were different.

 

One might also argue that a player like a Henderson who was valued around #4 and who has done well was a better pick. However, this argument gets reduced to 20/20 hindsight because OL was such a neglected position under Butler and givebn the investment in Bledsoe was such a crying need that picking anyone but MW or McKinnie is just silly to insist on at this point.

 

Finally there is the argument that we should have taken McKinnie rather than MW. It seems to be the case we would be in about the same shape with this position, but would have had to go through the trauma and idiocy of his holdout and criminal tendencies in exchange for the slight hope he might have given because his holdout and criminality leave some hope he can actually become a player one day.

 

Thus is getting too long a post even for me. I actually found some free time to do this cause my college buddy who is joining us for Thanksgiving needed some sleep after driving here but I here some stirring so I'm off to be a host and I will get back to this list later.

 

2 4 36 WR Jake Reed LSU

2 29 61 DE Ryan Denney BYU

3 32 97* SS Coy Wire Stanford

5 4 139 DT Justin Bannan Colorado

6 4 176 CB Kevin Thomas UNLV

7 4 215 OG Mike Pucillo Auburn

7 40 249* WR Rodney Wright Fresno St.

7 42 251* FB Jarett Ferguson Virginia Tech

7 50 260# LB Dominique Stevenson Tennessee

[Bill from NYC]

 

Real world grade- D (headed toward F when he gets cut).

 

TD's grade in hindsight- B Like it or not he was judged as a great pick (a shoo in as an NFL talent according to Buschbaum) by tons of pundits (Kiper, Great North, PFW, Buschnaum, etc.). One can fault him for not trading down in hindsight and getting Levi Jones (a #10 pick by the Bengals who has done well at LT), but the Jones pick was lambasted by many at the time as a reach.  Demanding that TD see this is such 20/20 hindsight as to be even beyond my silliness is wishing that reality were different. 

 

 

Finally there is the argument that we should have taken McKinnie rather than MW.  It seems to be the case we would be in about the same shape with this position, but would have had to go through the trauma and idiocy of his holdout and criminal tendencies in exchange for the slight hope he might have given because his holdout and criminality leave some hope he can actually become a player one day.

 

511476[/snapback]

 

"B" in hindsight? Nonsense. It was a lousy pick which helped to bury the team. It doesn't matter what pundits say FFS. It is the job of the GM to be the pro; to be BETTER than the pundits or else the roles would be quite reversed.

TD saddled this team with a fat, 38 million dollar turd, NOT Buchsbaum.

I give Butler a "B" in hindsight for selecting Covington. Maybe an "A." Damien appeared to be on his way to being a fine LB. He suffered a career ending injury, and Mr. B cannot be blamed for this. See the difference?

 

It is also interesting that you cite the "criminal behavior" of McKinnie. What did he do? Punch somebody? Sex with a hooker?

It reveals much that at the time, you seemed to excuse Travis Henry for sex with a kid. It is true that none of us knew that he was a drug addict as well, but which is worse? I am sensing big time TD validating and excuse making. He doesn't deserve it FFS.

 

McKinnie is a football player who is doing at least a decent job at LT. Williams is stinking up the football field when he is deemed worthy by his coaches of even stepping onto one. He will more than likely be cut after this season and continue in his absence to inflict more damage upon the Bills' salary cap than he did on their opponents. Given that, I still say good riddance!

 

I am lucky enough to have been reading your postings for many years. I continue to enjoy them and respect you, and everything you have to say. Sorry, but I don't see a way, not one possible way to excuse TD for whiffing on his best opportunity to help the team that we both love, or at the VERY least; fail to cripple it.

 

PS: Nothing in this post should indicate that I think that Mr. B. did an adequate job of taking the Bills into the next level either.

[colin]

  2  4  36 WR Jake Reed LSU

  2  29  61 DE Ryan Denney BYU

  3  32  97* SS Coy Wire Stanford

  5  4 139 DT Justin Bannan Colorado

  6  4 176 CB Kevin Thomas UNLV

  7  4 215 OG Mike Pucillo Auburn

  7  40 249* WR Rodney Wright Fresno St.

  7  42 251* FB Jarett Ferguson Virginia Tech

  7  50 260# LB Dominique Stevenson Tennessee

511476[/snapback]

 

that was a boom or bust draft and we got hurt in the first round. that happens.

 

the thing that i don't like is the CRAP we picked up afterwords.

 

4 day one picks including the 4th and 36th overall and NONE of them start on our team. none of them even look like they will start on our team.

 

in later rounds we got nothing too.

 

i still think williams can be a good RT in the NFL, and will have to take a bit of a pay cut to be worth while, but even if that works out for the best the above draft was friggin horrible, especially since we could have gotten henderson and le'charles bently and really improved our team for years to come.

[KOKBILLS]

"B" in hindsight? Nonsense. It was a lousy pick which helped to bury the team. It doesn't matter what pundits say FFS. It is the job of the GM to be the pro; to be BETTER than the pundits or else the roles would be quite reversed.

TD saddled this team with a fat, 38 million dollar turd, NOT Buchsbaum.

 

511499[/snapback]

 

That My Friend was brilliantly said!

[RunTheBall]

As long as Fat Mike is on the bench and McKinnie is in the game, there is absolutely no discussion on who was the better pick. It's not like Fat Mike was replaced by a stud offensive lineman who was playing better, the #4 Overall pick was replaced by a friggin FREE AGENT TIGHT END who is learning on the job. Are you kidding me? This is one of the biggest busts in Bills history and I wish people would stop smoking crack and making excuses for this fat, lazy, over-injured, depressed, sack-giving up BENCH WARMER.

 

RTB

[GG]

Again, people mis the point of hte failure of the 2002 draft. It wasn't the drafting of MW, who was a near concensus pick in that slot, but giving up a 4th round draft pick in a deep draft, when you are rebuilding a team, to jump ahead a few slots. Take a look at that 4th round in 2002, and tell me you wouldn't want to have a shot of one of those guys in a Bills' uni?

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

"B" in hindsight? Nonsense. It was a lousy pick which helped to bury the team. It doesn't matter what pundits say FFS. It is the job of the GM to be the pro; to be BETTER than the pundits or else the roles would be quite reversed.

TD saddled this team with a fat, 38 million dollar turd, NOT Buchsbaum.

I give Butler a "B" in hindsight for selecting Covington. Maybe an "A." Damien appeared to be on his way to being a fine LB. He suffered a career ending injury, and Mr. B cannot be blamed for this. See the difference?

 

It is also interesting that you cite the "criminal behavior" of McKinnie. What did he do? Punch somebody? Sex with a hooker?

It reveals much that at the time, you seemed to excuse Travis Henry for sex with a kid. It is true that none of us knew that he was a drug addict as well, but which is worse? I am sensing big time TD validating and excuse making. He doesn't deserve it FFS.

 

McKinnie is a football player who is doing at least a decent job at LT. Williams is stinking up the football field when he is deemed worthy by his coaches of even stepping onto one. He will more than likely be cut after this season and continue in his absence to inflict more damage upon the Bills' salary cap than he did on their opponents. Given that, I still say good riddance!

 

I am lucky enough to have been reading your postings for many years. I continue to enjoy them and respect you, and everything you have to say. Sorry, but I don't see a way, not one possible way to excuse TD for whiffing on his best opportunity to help the team that we both love, or at the VERY least; fail to cripple it.

 

PS: Nothing in this post should indicate that I think that Mr. B. did an adequate job of taking the Bills into the next level either.

511499[/snapback]

 

Actually this was my mistake as what I meant was that the choice at the time was a B without the benefit of hindsight that he would not work out.

 

What the pundits said at the time of the draft is as meaningless as what you or I said, but at the time the consensus was that if you were going to invest in getting your LT of the future MW snd BM were the choices and that MW was a more likely choice.

 

Neither has proven to be an answer for a team at LT and neither is anywhere near worth the slotted cost of a #4.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Again, people mis the point of hte failure of the 2002 draft.  It wasn't the drafting of MW, who was a near concensus pick in that slot, but giving up a 4th round draft pick in a deep draft, when you are rebuilding a team, to jump ahead a few slots.  Take a look at that 4th round in 2002, and tell me you wouldn't want to have a shot of one of those guys in a Bills' uni?

511962[/snapback]

 

I'd rather have Alex Brown than Ryan Denney. In a heartbeat.

[Rico]

There's a good possibility that the only player from this draft on next year's team is Coy Wire.

[Sisyphean Bills]

There's a good possibility that the only player from this draft on next year's team is Coy Wire.

512046[/snapback]

 

And only because he can play special teams...

 

Pathetic.

 

How you give TD/TM a grade of B is totally incomprehensible to me. The 2002 draft was a complete train wreck, including the toxic mushroom clouds and explosions ripping into the future of the franchise.

 

Is there a grade lower than F? How about a 5/100 on this one? A thin nickel for the aforementioned special teams player. In some sense, Milloy is still band-aiding that pick, even though Lawyer runs like he has concrete in his cleats.

[Rico]

And only because he can play special teams...

512058[/snapback]

I say only because TD already extended Wire's contract AND

Denney may get more $$$ from another team.

 

And Ryan Denney makes this draft better than an F, but not by much...

especially since we burned a #2 & #4 to get him.

[jester43]

As long as Fat Mike is on the bench and McKinnie is in the game, there is absolutely no discussion on who was the better pick. It's not like Fat Mike was replaced by a stud offensive lineman who was playing better, the #4 Overall pick was replaced by a friggin FREE AGENT TIGHT END who is learning on the job. Are you kidding me? This is one of the biggest busts in Bills history and I wish people would stop smoking crack and making excuses for this fat, lazy, over-injured, depressed, sack-giving up BENCH WARMER.

 

RTB

511958[/snapback]

i have 68 jersey hanging in my closet, and i couldn't agree more.

[Brandon]

I give it a C-.

 

Its bad, but it could be worse. A LOT worse. 2000 was an 'F' draft. There are no top tier starters from this draft, but at least these guys have made some contribution. The real problem is that its not worth making a major effort to keep any of these guys once their contracts are up.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I say only because TD already extended Wire's contract AND

Denney may get more $$$ from another team.

 

And Ryan Denney makes this draft better than an F, but not by much...

especially since we burned a #2 & #4 to get him.

512065[/snapback]

 

I don't know. I'm not convinced about the Denney pick. He's been adequate at best in the Bills DE shuffle. The problem is the guy is already old and the Bills traded up just to get him. He just hasn't shown he is worth 2 players. In hindsight, the Bills could've stood pat and still drafted Alex Brown in the 4th round and have a more productive DE than Denney...

[San-O]

And only because he can play special teams...

 

Pathetic.

 

How you give TD/TM a grade of B is totally incomprehensible to me.  The 2002 draft was a complete train wreck, including the toxic mushroom clouds and explosions ripping into the future of the franchise.

 

Is there a grade lower than F?  How about a 5/100 on this one?  A thin nickel for the aforementioned special teams player.  In some sense, Milloy is still band-aiding that pick, even though Lawyer runs like he has concrete in his cleats.

512058[/snapback]

 

 

LOL.

 

Remember, this is coming from the same guy that said our O-line

was going to be better this year, without Jonas Jennings.

 

[Sisyphean Bills]

I give it a C-. 

 

Its bad,  but it could be worse.  A LOT worse. 2000 was an 'F' draft.  There are no top tier starters from this draft, but at least these guys have made some contribution.  The real problem is that its not worth making a major effort to keep any of these guys once their contracts are up.

512104[/snapback]

 

We'll have to agree to disagree. The Bills were drafting at the top of the order in this draft and picked up nothing but some role players. That's nothing short of outright failure in my book. That sort of drafting is why teams like the Arizona Cardinals and Detriot Lions have sucked forever. It is also a legitimate basis for fans to question Mr. Teflon and his famed god-like status as a draft genius. Donahoe and Modrak just plain blew it. Picking in the top of the order, they should have been able to find at least one All-Pro to build the franchise around. I suspect that by the start of next year, there will be almost nothing left of this draft on the roster -- only the residual lingering bad taste of BUSTVILLE.