Ghost of BiB Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 You were making some sense until the above. There are situations where you are simply wrong. Your post indicates blind trust for corporations, municipalities, etc. I hope that you are right in terms of your future, or you will be a sad and disillusioned person when thrown out into the street. 511279[/snapback] So, does a guy who makes three identical spot welds 100 times per day deserve $50 per hour plus benefits? Look up the labor costs in producing an American made car. The re-look why people end up getting "thrown out on the street". Plenty of airline pilots, cabin crew and skilled aviation mechanics take cuts to keep their bread and butter afloat. Better to make some money, than none. But, the spot welder has rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 ...and there are situations when IowaBill is absolutely correct. 511292[/snapback] I would think so too, but the sentence I quoted was just plain wrong. There are plenty of workers who need the protection of their unions. Do you agree, or do you too place blind faith in all businesses and municipalities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 I think unions can be valuable and serve a useful purpose in protecting workers from being exploited by greedy corporations. The problem is when greedy men (and it seems to be men, doesn't it) take over the unions and assume the same attributes as the corporations (greed mostly) that they become bad things. Bad things, man. You're probably familiar with the recent Boeing labor goings-on in Seattle. My brother works there and belongs to a union. Another union, I think it was machinists, was in a labor dispute and eventually struck. I was talking to my brother and we agreed that the deal Boeing had offered was really good - I'd have been happy to have it and he expressed the same sentiment. Yet they struck anyway. The funniest thing is my doofy brother then drove around sporting a "I stand with ...." poster in his F250. Huh? What's with that? I guess he doesn't realize that eventually all unionized workers will pay, somehow, someday. I hope he remembers that the next time Boeing lays him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 I would think so too, but the sentence I quoted was just plain wrong. 511301[/snapback] No it is not. Do you agree, or are you too blind to anything outside of staunch union mentality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 So, not like it's been brought up, or anything... Does a person who makes three spot welds 100 times per day deserve to make $50 per hour plus benefits PLUS pension? That's a simple yes or no, kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 So, not like it's been brought up, or anything... Does a person who makes three spot welds 100 times per day deserve to make $50 per hour plus benefits PLUS pension? That's a simple yes or no, kids. 511341[/snapback] Did you say something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Did you say something? 511353[/snapback] No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaBill Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 I would think so too, but the sentence I quoted was just plain wrong. There are plenty of workers who need the protection of their unions. Do you agree, or do you too place blind faith in all businesses and municipalities? 511301[/snapback] I don't know which is the greater evil, faith in the union leadership to do what is right for their members, or faith in a corporation or municipality to do what is right for their stakeholders. I mentioned I was a unio member once. In fact I was a shop steward. I remember going through a 7 month long strike, and during that strike union officials coming to the picket lines and strike headquarters (local Elks Club!!) in their expensive cars and fine clothes. Meanwhile, I wasn't getting a paycheck. I also wasn't getting much in the way of assistance from the local, except for help in filling out food stamp applications. I left the union position, got a poistion in the managment, and realized that what I went on strike for was not really in my best interest. I haven't worked in a union position since, I have always made more money, had better benefits and had abetter work experience without a union. much like the people at the Toyota and Honda assembly plants in the US I didn't need a union. I would disagree with some of the comments made by others here regarding quality differences. Some of the least reliable cars I have had have been Japanese, and the single most reliable car I have ever had was a 1992 Jeep Cherokee, of all things as i know they are not known for their quality. After 425,000 miles with the ORIGINAL engine and transmission, I finally gave to my nephew. He promptly smashed it into a tree. i am pretty sure that had nothing to do with who designed or built it . Just my two cents on unions, I am sure others have had different experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 No. 511365[/snapback] Good. I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Good. I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. 511381[/snapback] Who is the guy in your avatar? I can't figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 You were making some sense until the above. There are situations where you are simply wrong. Your post indicates blind trust for corporations, municipalities, etc. I hope that you are right in terms of your future, or you will be a sad and disillusioned person when thrown out into the street. 511279[/snapback] No actually, he is correct. And far from "blind trust", most anti-union people base their opinions on informed experience with corporations and municipalities (aka "taxpayers"). Not to mention a general dislike for extortion tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Who is the guy in your avatar? I can't figure it out. 511387[/snapback] Dr. Mikau Usui. He is credited with re-introducing Reiki to the world. I am a Level II Reiki practitioner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Dr. Mikau Usui. He is credited with re-introducing Reiki to the world. I am a Level II Reiki practitioner. 511395[/snapback] And a HELL of a good Salsa dancer. Ken is very multi-talented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Dr. Mikau Usui. He is credited with re-introducing Reiki to the world. I am a Level II Reiki practitioner. 511395[/snapback] Wow. I have never heard of it. Can it help migranes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Wow. I have never heard of it. Can it help migranes? 511403[/snapback] Yup. I use it on myself for migranes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 And a HELL of a good Salsa dancer. Ken is very multi-talented. 511402[/snapback] I am more than just a pretty face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 So, not like it's been brought up, or anything... Does a person who makes three spot welds 100 times per day deserve to make $50 per hour plus benefits PLUS pension? That's a simple yes or no, kids. 511341[/snapback] I am sorry BiB. The answer would appear to be no. That said, I have no knowledge of welding, nor of how hard it would be for a company to fill this particular slot. My deceased father was a union construction worker. He welded of of "I" Beams off of a scaffold on NYC skyscrapers and power plants in the elements. He made a lot of money, and he deserved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 No it is not. Do you agree, or are you too blind to anything outside of staunch union mentality? 511328[/snapback] Ken, are you taking the position along with IowaBill that there is never a need for workers to unionize? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Ken, are you taking the position along with IowaBill that there is never a need for workers to unionize? 511455[/snapback] They only need to unionize it they want to make a decent wage. Just look at the nations that have no real union presence and then look at the wages and living standards of those workers. If we want to turn America into a third world cesspool, obliterating unions would be a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 23, 2005 Author Share Posted November 23, 2005 They only need to unionize it they want to make a decent wage. Just look at the nations that have no real union presence and then look at the wages and living standards of those workers. If we want to turn America into a third world cesspool, obliterating unions would be a good start. 511458[/snapback] I agree, except for the word "only." Without unions, there would certainly be more indiscriminate firings and a whole host of other abuses. This is what history tells us Mickey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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