R. Rich Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 Art Monk deserves it before Derrick Thomas or Irvin. Arguably he deserves it before Thurman does. 510358[/snapback] Ralph Wilson deserves it before any of them. Unfortunately, this isn't voted on by the Those Who Deserve It Best Committee.
Ned Flanders Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 Art Monk, I believe, has been on the list before, so he should get in before any of the first timers. 510360[/snapback] This is an annual issue for Skins fans here in DC. Peter King is the one voter who has kept Monk outta the HOF. King gets up the day of the final vote and contends that when he was covering the Giants for Newsday, the Giants always feared Gary Clark more than Art Monk...he claims Monk's catches were no more than "seven yards and a cloud of sideline chalk dust." I dunno, but if you leave the game with the most catches all-time, why should you always be measured vs. Jerry Rice? Put the SU guy in Canton.
OnTheRocks Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 My choices of who will make it in. Troy Aikman Reggie White John Madden Rayfield Wright Harry Carson Randy Gradishar Derrick Thomas Dermontti Dawson Thurman Thomas Michael Irvin Andre Reed Art Monk Fred Dean Richard Dent L.C. Greenwood Claude Humphrey Warren Moon Ken Stabler Russ Grimm Bob Kuechenberg Gary Zimmerman Lester Hayes Roger Wehrli Ray Guy Art Modell Ralph Wilson, Jr. George Young Art Monk is so long overdue they should lock the voters in a room until they get it right. I hope Ralph makes it. I think he deserves it. And I will be pissed if they wait to vote him in after he is dead.
Lori Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 Reed left the game a whining snot. The voters have memories... 510338[/snapback] Some people I've talked to - including a couple of those voters - say Reed's image is far different nationally than in WNY. Whether or not he makes it won't have anything to do with his personality... That said, Thurman's probably got the best shot of the three Bills candidates. I'd like to see Ralph make it, of course, but the subset of voters who covered the AFL (and remember how important RCW was to that league and during the merger) keeps getting shorter.
JDG Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 Reggie White is a mortal lock. Aikman is almost a shoo-in. Thurman Thomas belongs in the conversation of greatest NFL RB ever - only player to ever lead the League in yards for scrimmage for four straight years (even Jim Brown didn't do that), so he should be a shoo-in. Seniors' candidates are rarely rejected, so put in Rayfield Wright and John Madden (though I wouldn't vote for him - broadcast experience isn't supposed to count.) That leaves one slot, for the likes of Irvin, Carson, Dawson, D. Thomas, Young, and Wilson. My ballot: White, T. Thomas, Aikman, Wright, Moon, and Carson I don't think Moon stands much of a shot, but I think that he eminently deserves it under the HOF rules that are supposed to consider CFL Stats in certain cases. JDG
stuckincincy Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 Some people I've talked to - including a couple of those voters - say Reed's image is far different nationally than in WNY. Whether or not he makes it won't have anything to do with his personality... 510401[/snapback] Likely - but if the voters have integrity, they will root around to get a clear picture before they cast. And some may conclude that Reed's personality is a factor. But judgement on a person's character seems passe these days, so you may well be right.
KRC Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 That said, Thurman's probably got the best shot of the three Bills candidates. I'd like to see Ralph make it, of course, but the subset of voters who covered the AFL (and remember how important RCW was to that league and during the merger) keeps getting shorter. 510401[/snapback] I agree that TT has the best shot of the three. If Ralph makes it, it will be after he passes. Unfortunately, I do not think that TT will make it this year. The competition is too tough. Maybe next year (I have not seen who is eligible, so I do not know what his chances are).
lawnboy1977 Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 Here's what I think the big debate should be about, do stats matter or not? I check this on the HOF website a fe times during the season, if you haven't ever been there its nice to look at during the regular season because they update the top 20 all-time leaders every week. There's constant changes in some of the categories, mainly passing and receiving. I've noticed quite a few people making an argument for stats for guys like Andre Reed and Thurman Thomas, and rightfully so. When you look at the top 20 lists as they currently stand though, I don't think stats are worth a piece of cow dung! Example: Among the top 20 passers in league history(Minimum 1500 attempts) KURT WARNER, DAUNTE CULPEPPER, TOM BRADY, TRENT GREEN, JEFF GARCIA, DREW BREES, BRIAN GRIESE, MATT HASSELBECK, MARK BRUNELL and Brad Johnson. Not exactly what I would call the greatest group of QBs to come out in the last 30 years. Obviously the passer rating system heavily favors the last 15 years of pro football. Brady is of course still very young and has some years left, will be sonsidered for the hall of course because of his rings, the only one of this group I would call HOF caliber, but he's young. You could make an argument for Green, Brunell and maybe Johnson but thats stretching it with the last one. Warner is at the top of this list mainly because of 3 seasons, but it is a minimum 1500 attempts. Conversely, looking at the top receivers of all time(number of receptions): The top ten includes: Andre Reed, Art Monk, Irving Fryar, Henry Ellard, Michael Irvin and Andre Rison. Of all of those, only Irvin is considered by many to a favorite to be voted to the Hall this year. Ellard and Monk have been eligible for years now, and Reed is among the top ten all time in receptions, yards and TDs. Go figure. There alot ho make the argument for stats being a case for the hall, like for Monk and Reed, and I would say its a fair argument. Would you say that guys like Ellard, Irvin, and Fryar should be considred over a guy like Irvin? How about a guy like Testaverder who has 40,000 yards. I would say season averages should play a large part on a decision. If a guy has a short career but excelled in that short time period, ala gale Sayers or Terrell Davis or Irvin, the career stats don' matter. Just a topic for debate, anyone care to throw in their 2 cents?
jester43 Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 when i look at the current state of the bills i have to ask myself just why is it ralph belongs in the hall? i'm sure there are some reasons, but over the years he seems to have made more bad decisions than good. there's been a lot more sucking than winning in the past 40 years.
JDG Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 when i look at the current state of the bills i have to ask myself just why is it ralph belongs in the hall? i'm sure there are some reasons, but over the years he seems to have made more bad decisions than good. there's been a lot more sucking than winning in the past 40 years. 510491[/snapback] Why does any owner belong in the Hall? i.e. how does one compare the worthiness for the HOF of Ralph Wilson vs. Dermontti Dawson? Its absurd to even try. As for lawnboy's question about stats, Football is not baseball where sheer longevity to pile up certain career benchmarks can punch your ticket for Cooperstown. Football is a far more complex game with many more intangibles. Drew Bledsoe is another guy who is piling up great career numbers, but who should never sniff the HOF. Rather, HOF assessment should be based on some combination of the following factors: 1) Was there a period of years in which this player would alter the gameplans of opponents? 2) Was there a period of years in which this player was the best, or at least among the Top 3 at his position in the NFL? 3) Does this player's accomplishments at his position at least compare favorably with the career accomplishments of other players at his position already in the Hall? 4) Is this player's accomplishments significantly better than the career accomplishments of other players at his position not (yet) in the HOF (and not an obvious lock for the Hall ala Reggie White)? 5) Did this player have an extended period of years of being "very, very, good" in addition to the period of "dominance"? JDG
KOKBILLS Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 Thurman should be a lock. He deserves it. 510329[/snapback] Amen...If TT is not a 1st Ballot Hall Of Famer the entire process is a sham. The only player in NFL history to lead the league in total yards from scrimmage for four consecutive seasons...Period...End of Story...
JDG Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 Amen...If TT is not a 1st Ballot Hall Of Famer the entire process is a sham. The only player in NFL history to lead the league in total yards from scrimmage for four consecutive seasons...Period...End of Story... 510518[/snapback] Yeah, how is it that "Thurman Thomas" isn't a headliner of this HOF class???? JDG
X. Benedict Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 Sigh. There is little hope for Steve Tasker. My only worry is that if he gets in he might try to parlay it into a broadcasting career.
The Dean Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 Sigh. There is little hope for Steve Tasker.My only worry is that if he gets in he might try to parlay it into a broadcasting career. 510525[/snapback] Very funny (man, Steve REALLY stinks on air, no?) I'd love to see him make the HOF (as a player, of course)...and, perhaps, Guy could open that door a little for him. But, I don't see it happening. With that said, Guy is deserving.
cåblelady Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 I hope at least one Bill makes it. We need another road trip to Canton!
Mark VI Posted November 23, 2005 Posted November 23, 2005 Sigh. There is little hope for Steve Tasker.My only worry is that if he gets in he might try to parlay it into a broadcasting career. 510525[/snapback]
JDG Posted November 23, 2005 Posted November 23, 2005 Very funny (man, Steve REALLY stinks on air, no?) I'd love to see him make the HOF (as a player, of course)...and, perhaps, Guy could open that door a little for him. But, I don't see it happening. With that said, Guy is deserving. 510567[/snapback] Guy used to completely outkick his coverage... I'm not sure he necessarily deserves the title of best punter in NFL history. As for Steve Tasker, they guy isn't even on the Wall of Fame, how can the guy (whom I admittedly consider the Greatest Buffalo Bill) possibly make a case for the Hall of Fame without even being on the Wall of Fame? JDG
Tcali Posted November 23, 2005 Posted November 23, 2005 There's a lot of deserving candidates in there. 510216[/snapback] ABSOLUTELY----this is an extremely strong group---I can see almost all of them getting in eventually.
Tcali Posted November 23, 2005 Posted November 23, 2005 Amen...If TT is not a 1st Ballot Hall Of Famer the entire process is a sham. The only player in NFL history to lead the league in total yards from scrimmage for four consecutive seasons...Period...End of Story... 510518[/snapback] TT should be a lock.
Tcali Posted November 23, 2005 Posted November 23, 2005 Reggie White is a mortal lock. Aikman is almost a shoo-in. Thurman Thomas belongs in the conversation of greatest NFL RB ever - only player to ever lead the League in yards for scrimmage for four straight years (even Jim Brown didn't do that), so he should be a shoo-in. Seniors' candidates are rarely rejected, so put in Rayfield Wright and John Madden (though I wouldn't vote for him - broadcast experience isn't supposed to count.) That leaves one slot, for the likes of Irvin, Carson, Dawson, D. Thomas, Young, and Wilson. My ballot: White, T. Thomas, Aikman, Wright, Moon, and Carson I don't think Moon stands much of a shot, but I think that he eminently deserves it under the HOF rules that are supposed to consider CFL Stats in certain cases. JDG 510434[/snapback] Thurman does NOT belong in the conversation of greatest NFL RB ever. But he was still a great great back who should make it first ballot. TT is not in the same league as Jim Brown.OJ,Gale Sayers,Payton,etc.
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