ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 It doesn't matter what he 'needs' to support his family (totally subjective anyway), it matters what someone is willing to pay him for that work and what he is will to accept. If the two parties can't reach an agreement, than both should be free to pursue other options.I think you need to go to remedial smiley school. Your abuse of the Darin smiley is reaching the critical stage. 507596[/snapback] Even more nauseating... Is my constant use of ellipsis. Steer me to the "Snapback Rules"... A.K.A "Darin Smiley." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Even more nauseating... Is my constant use of ellipsis. Clearly.... Steer me to the "Snapback Rules"... A.K.A "Darin Smiley." 507600[/snapback] I don't think they've been published yet. Maybe he'll stop by later and offer an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 My father is a machinist by trade. He did his apprenticeship prior to his 100% U.S. government funded vacation to Vietnam for a couple years back in the last 60's. I grew up on a skilled tradesman's hourly wage. My answer is probably a bit biased, but yes, I believe think wages ought to be on par as long as there is equal demand for the service provided. It's all about the demand for the labor, though. 507598[/snapback] One of my sister's friends owns a machine shop. It was a family business started after the war... It is still up running today. True, business is not the same today as it has been in the past but, demand for quality is still there. Her friend's constant lament is that it is hard finding quality, skilled people that know what they are doing. Machining today, I take is a lot more computer driven than years ago. This opens up whole new skills that need to be trained on top of things learned in the past. I agree with you and KD. It is all about demand. That is why they should move them to cheaper areas if they can. Why haven't they done it already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 I don't think they've been published yet. Maybe he'll stop by later and offer an opinion. 507601[/snapback] God, I hope so! Not sure if that was a snapback? I know if I would have said something like "Unions Bad!", "Labor Bad!", that would have qualified. Not quite sure if the "Darin Smiley" can have a cheery upbeat undertone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted November 20, 2005 Author Share Posted November 20, 2005 One of my sister's friends owns a machine shop. It was a family business started after the war... It is still up running today. True, business is not the same today as it has been in the past but, demand for quality is still there. Her friend's constant lament is that it is hard finding quality, skilled people that know what they are doing. Machining today, I take is a lot more computer driven than years ago. This opens up whole new skills that need to be trained on top of things learned in the past. I agree with you and KD. It is all about demand. That is why they should move them to cheaper areas if they can. Why haven't they done it already? 507604[/snapback] That I don't know, but I'll hazard a few guesses. 1. Union backlash. You know, the whole "held hostage" thing. Delta has been talking about making some serious changes and whatnot now that they've filed bankruptcy. Things that probably should have been done years ago to avert bankruptcy altogether. 2. Quality. AFAIK, you're right. American quality has always been better. Of course, as the processes become computer controlled, I'd think the quality would "even out" and the source would become less important. From a cost perspective, the lower labor costs offset the shipping and import costs. 3. True commitment to "the American worker." This is probably some of it, actually. I respect this, but in my opinion it simply prolongs the inevitable. 4. Damn Saints. C'mon. Can't we get some freakin' help here? My father has made comments about how it's ridiculous that some companies can employ you for 20 years and not provide a pension plan. That type of thing should be "illegal" and all that. It's thinking in the past is what it is. -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 My father has made comments about how it's ridiculous that some companies can employ you for 20 years and not provide a pension plan. That type of thing should be "illegal" and all that. It's thinking in the past is what it is. -Jeff 507612[/snapback] Good points! "That past" becomes the here and now all too fast. What I mean is that we all get old. It isn't that somebody should take care of us from womb to tomb. You should be offered some security for your years you worked. I am not asking for a "Golden Parachute" that the execs get. Some type of pension plan should be in order though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted November 20, 2005 Author Share Posted November 20, 2005 Good points! "That past" becomes the here and now all too fast. What I mean is that we all get old. It isn't that somebody should take care of us from womb to tomb. You should be offered some security for your years you worked. I am not asking for a "Golden Parachute" that the execs get. Some type of pension plan should be in order though. 507636[/snapback] Right, but it certainly shouldn't be a mandated thing. It's a Good Thing To Do that ought to be treated as a benefit that financially stable companies can offer in order to attract capable workers. It should by no means be a requirement. I understand the other side. Lots of these folks are people that got into the game with pensions and union labor being the norm. You know the type. Get out of high school in June and step into a Ford plant three months later. I'm 100% Buffalo; both of my grandfathers and every last one of my uncles did that. I feel bad for that crowd in that the entire system was shaken up mid-stream for them. Hell, I've been smacked by it, thus the reason I live down South where the economy is better. My father is reaching retirement age without much of a retirement fund because he had the pension plan going for him before his shop closed the doors. That type of business just can't compete with the rest of the world, unfortunately. I won't be happy until I *have* a golden parachunte! -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 God, I hope so! Not sure if that was a snapback? I know if I would have said something like "Unions Bad!", "Labor Bad!", that would have qualified. Not quite sure if the "Darin Smiley" can have a cheery upbeat undertone? 507608[/snapback] Darin's so dreamy. Probably the only guy who could last an hour with Brewski, and not have his eyes burned out from the aura. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 I feel bad for that crowd in that the entire system was shaken up mid-stream for them. Hell, I've been smacked by it, thus the reason I live down South where the economy is better. My father is reaching retirement age without much of a retirement fund because he had the pension plan going for him before his shop closed the doors. That type of business just can't compete with the rest of the world, unfortunately. I won't be happy until I *have* a golden parachunte! -Jeff 507674[/snapback] My feelings here too. It (shaken up midstream) is happening in the government also... Myself, I am still young, college educated (sure go ahead and snicker, laugh at my expense ) and saving... I actually WELCOME the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Darin's so dreamy. Probably the only guy who could last an hour with Brewski, and not have his eyes burned out from the aura. 507677[/snapback] I am telling you, somebody better e-mail safety and throw in some Bruschi protection regulation for good measure. Not that Darin would abide by it... But, us mere mortals need all the help we can get! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 I am telling you, somebody better e-mail safety and throw in some Bruschi protection regulation for good measure. Not that Darin would abide by it... But, us mere mortals need all the help we can get! 507685[/snapback] Darin recovered the shield from "Clash of the Titans". It didn't really melt, it went through a hole in the studio floor. I think he has the mechanical owl, too. It's a little known fact that the series "24" is based on Darin's water cooler breaks. His real life would not be believable, in a series. Alaska Darin would scoff at a missing nuclear warhead, rendering it useless over his cell phone. Against Brewski? He's the only chance we have. I think he even has a red light sabre, so I've been told. Everyone knows the red ones are really better than the green ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtdoak Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 "We're not going to make those bearings for Delphi or anybody else at $12.50 an hour," Slusher said." 507231[/snapback] Sigh. People bitchin because they were too cool to go to college and get a real job. Its amazing, you never hear electrical engineers bitching about their $35/hr. If they went to night school for a semester, get some sort of certification, they could tell their union to stuff it while they went out and got their $18/hr job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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