mcjeff215 Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 This stuff just can't get much better. http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20051119/1064758.asp "Lattie Slusher, president of UAW Local 913 at a Delphi factory in Sandusky, Ohio, said the plant makes wheel spindle bearings for GM cars and trucks that can't be purchased anywhere else. The union should demand $50 or $60 in base wages, since that's the way the capitalist system works, he said. "We're not going to make those bearings for Delphi or anybody else at $12.50 an hour," Slusher said." What they fail to realize is that they are not providing a unique service. They are following company owned processes while operating company owned machinery to produce components to company specifications. They're not doing anyone any favors by showing up to work in the morning. Right, that is exactly how the capitalist system works. There is also a market for labor, though, and they're pricing themselves right out of existence. No worries. Stand up. Demand your $50 an hour. I'm sure someone in India would be willing to put stuff together following those same procedures for 1/20th the cost. That ought to more than offset shipping them across the planet. You and your union are not entitled to a job or a specific rate. Gah. Sorry. These guys drive me crazy. They act like they fight for the rights of the local worker but in all honesty, they're destroying the area. All crap like this does is prolong the impending death of those positions. /rant off. -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Typical morons. We'll hear the same guy crying in two years when he and his whole crew are out of work. But hey, I wouldn't get out of bed for less than $28/hour so what do I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted November 19, 2005 Author Share Posted November 19, 2005 Typical morons. We'll hear the same guy crying in two years when he and his whole crew are out of work. But hey, I wouldn't get out of bed for less than $28/hour so what do I know. 507232[/snapback] Haven't these guys taken "Introduction to Economics?" I just don't understand how educated people can preach this crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 Go ahead and make them in India... Who cares... I don't. I wonder how the American public is going to react knowing that their "precious cargo" is flying down the road on Indian bearings. PR disaster after the first faulty crash? Who cares? In all honesty... Even in this day and age... You want something machined well and strive for quality... You stay stateside. Wasn't there a big thing about fastners machined overseas some years ago? Sure the market exists and does well... But, the dirty little secret is that people who demand quality stay in the US... That doesn't get reported. Like I said, I don't care... Move it overseas... I won't be screaming... "Michelin mommy and daddy" will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 I belong to a union and only make min wage. Well... actually less than min wage if you count the $12 they take out of my paycheck each week (for union dues). !@#$in unions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 19, 2005 Share Posted November 19, 2005 I belong to a union and only make min wage. Well... actually less than min wage if you count the $12 they take out of my paycheck each week (for union dues). !@#$in unions! 507252[/snapback] Can you make spindle-bearings for "Soccer-Moms?" If yes, when can we sign you up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSJayDee Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Michelin mommy and daddy Ironic, 'cuz Michelin is French, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Ironic, 'cuz Michelin is French, isn't it? 507294[/snapback] Thought of that before I used the term... I used it because Michelin has always been associated with safety (inventing the radial design, etc...). Adding to that... There was a great History channel docu on tire making... I was amazed how high-tech it is... We do pay for it though... Totally not the "dirty industry" of the past. My point was, how important are spindle bearings in your life? I'll bank that it is pretty high up there on the list... Even if most don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpbillsfan Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 My Dad was in a Union for over 30 years so I get to hear how Unions are the way to go. Unions did do alot of good 30 to 40 years ago, but I think they go overboard a little now. But its hard to argue with them when Executives in some of these companies are getting millions and millions of dollars every year now matter how bad thier companies are doing and they are getting huge retirement plans that no one can take away from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 My point was, how important are spindle bearings in your life? I'll bank that it is pretty high up there on the list... Even if most don't think so. 507465[/snapback] And? How many thousands of subcomponents of various machinary are critical to everyday life and saftey? Does this mean that we should be paying some guy on an assembly line $60/hr to make every one them? Maybe you can expound on what that'll do to Michelin mommy's retirement fund. As usual, you seem to be forgetting to have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 And? How many thousands of subcomponents of various machinary are critical to everyday life and saftey? Does this mean that we should be paying some guy on an assembly line $60/hr to make every one them? Maybe you can expound on what that'll do to Michelin mommy's retirement fund. As usual, you seem to be forgetting to have a point. 507524[/snapback] Who cares about their retirement fund... That isn't important if they die on their way to work. Should it matter? Like I said before... Good, move them overseas. I do wonder how much the industry is skill/tech driven... There must be something to it? But, then again I will just accept the "Unions Bad", "Labor Bad" that is being tossed out. Anybody "in the know" care to elaborate. Obviously, I can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted November 20, 2005 Author Share Posted November 20, 2005 And? How many thousands of subcomponents of various machinary are critical to everyday life and saftey? Does this mean that we should be paying some guy on an assembly line $60/hr to make every one them? Maybe you can expound on what that'll do to Michelin mommy's retirement fund. As usual, you seem to be forgetting to have a point. 507524[/snapback] Exactly. The bearing is the important component, not the hourly assembly line crew putting them together. Given schematics and machinery any line could put those components together. ...and these types of shops will continue to move into the not-so-unionized South and rust belt residents will continue to blame the evil corporations for taking all of "their" jobs and tax rates will continue to go up as the tax base erodes and people will demand higher wages to combat the increasing cost of living and these types of shops will continue to move into the.... -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 Exactly. The bearing is the important component, not the hourly assembly line crew putting them together. Given schematics and machinery any line could put those components together. ...and these types of shops will continue to move into the not-so-unionized South and rust belt residents will continue to blame the evil corporations for taking all of "their" jobs and tax rates will continue to go up as the tax base erodes and people will demand higher wages to combat the increasing cost of living and these types of shops will continue to move into the.... -Jeff 507569[/snapback] Then away from the not-so-unionized South and across the borders. And that is a good thing?... In time an equillibrium will be achieved. Just when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted November 20, 2005 Author Share Posted November 20, 2005 Who cares about their retirement fund... That isn't important if they die on their way to work. Should it matter? Like I said before... Good, move them overseas. I do wonder how much the industry is skill/tech driven... There must be something to it? But, then again I will just accept the "Unions Bad", "Labor Bad" that is being tossed out. Anybody "in the know" care to elaborate. Obviously, I can't. 507560[/snapback] Certainly some of it is technology/skill based. Of course there are engineers and skilled professionals behind the design, testing, and specification of any type of mass-produced component. "Lattie Slusher, president of UAW Local 913 at a Delphi factory in Sandusky, Ohio, said the plant makes wheel spindle bearings for GM cars and trucks that can't be purchased anywhere else. The union should demand $50 or $60 in base wages, since that's the way the capitalist system works, he said." He's not saying they should offer the engineers behind the product a competitive salary for their highly trained services. He's saying they should be demanding $50 - $60 base pay for factory assemblers at a plant in Sandusky, Ohio. That's $124,000 a year straight time. For assembling bearings. Screw my fancy college education, I'm going to go assemble bearings. Does it make sense for GM to pay that embedded price in every bearing they buy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted November 20, 2005 Author Share Posted November 20, 2005 Then away from the not-so-unionized South and across the borders. And that is a good thing?... In time an equillibrium will be achieved. Just when? 507574[/snapback] I don't really believe it's a good thing, but that's a complicated question. The answer is probably bound to how quickly we hit that equilibrium. I'd love it all to stay here and continue to employ thousands of factory workers. Irritation stems from the fact that demanding wages in that range sn't going to help keep that stuff around, yet the goal of the union is to protect the worker. -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 He's not saying they should offer the engineers behind the product a competitive salary for their highly trained services. He's saying they should be demanding $50 - $60 base pay for factory assemblers at a plant in Sandusky, Ohio. That's $124,000 a year straight time. For assembling bearings. Screw my fancy college education, I'm going to go assemble bearings. 507579[/snapback] As I suspected, it all boils down to what you say here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 What do some think a skilled machinist/tradesman needs to make to adequately support her/his family? Should skilled labor be afforded wages that are on par with their more formaly educated countrymen? If all it takes is a person with or witout a GED to make some of these pieces... Then by all means GM should farm these jobs out overseas and stop letting the union "hold them hostage." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 I don't really believe it's a good thing, but that's a complicated question. The answer is probably bound to how quickly we hit that equilibrium. I'd love it all to stay here and continue to employ thousands of factory workers. Irritation stems from the fact that demanding wages in that range sn't going to help keep that stuff around, yet the goal of the union is to protect the worker. -Jeff 507582[/snapback] I here you Jeff... IMO, he is not actually "demanding" wages... Just being a "wise guy" about capitalism... And it doesn't come off well. You said: "I'd love it all to stay here and continue to employ thousands of factory workers." It just is not going to happen. Nothing will until there is a free "legal" flow of labor into this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 What do some think a skilled machinist/tradesman needs to make to adequately support her/his family? Should skilled labor be afforded wages that are on par with their more formaly educated countrymen? If all it takes is a person with or witout a GED to make some of these pieces... Then by all means GM should farm these jobs out overseas and stop letting the union "hold them hostage." It doesn't matter what he 'needs' to support his family (totally subjective anyway), it matters what someone is willing to pay him for that work and what he is will to accept. If the two parties can't reach an agreement, than both should be free to pursue other options. I think you need to go to remedial smiley school. Your abuse of the Darin smiley is reaching the critical stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted November 20, 2005 Author Share Posted November 20, 2005 What do some think a skilled machinist/tradesman needs to make to adequately support her/his family? Should skilled labor be afforded wages that are on par with their more formaly educated countrymen? If all it takes is a person with or witout a GED to make some of these pieces... Then by all means GM should farm these jobs out overseas and stop letting the union "hold them hostage." 507586[/snapback] My father is a machinist by trade. He did his apprenticeship prior to his 100% U.S. government funded vacation to Vietnam for a couple years back in the last 60's. I grew up on a skilled tradesman's hourly wage. My answer is probably a bit biased, but yes, I believe think wages ought to be on par as long as there is equal demand for the service provided. It's all about the demand for the labor, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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