You say Mike Williams...

[Coach Tuesday]

If we're all gonna pile on big Mike, shouldn't Kelsay get some heat, too? This guy coulda been a first round pick (can you imagine?), and he hasn't made a play since the Houston game. IMO, he's being outplayed by Denney, an average player who he was drafted to replace. Kelsay, where are you? Time to step up.

[DeeRay]

The difference between Mike and Chris is, at least Chris goes "Balls out" and at least he's a hard worker. Eventually it will pay off... if not in Buffalo, someplace else. The Bills also, don't have anywhere near the investment in Kelsay that they have in Williams, so they could cut him tomorrow and not take much of a salary cap whack. Williams has way more starts than does Kelsay. When you're a top 5 pick, there are expectations. When you're a late 2nd rounder, there's a tendency to cut the guy a little more slack.

[Coach Tuesday]

When you're a top 5 pick, there are expectations.  When you're a late 2nd rounder, there's a tendency to cut the guy a little more slack.

505497[/snapback]

 

Yeah, Josh Reed gets cut a lot of slack around here...

[Kipers Hair]

If Kelsay were taken 5th overall...you're right...As it stands, Big Mike played his best ball as a Longhorn..

[DeeRay]

Yeah, Josh Reed gets cut a lot of slack around here...

 

You're right, we show no mercy. However, we have a much different scenario here. He showed so much promise in his rookie year that the Bills were willing to give up a receiver that just caught 90+ balls that season. Thus, the bar on Reed got raised significantly. Reed doesn't seem to have a problem getting open, it's catching the dang thing. Fans tend to frown on that when it happens repeatedly... thus he is rewarded for that accordingly.

 

Kelsay, on the other hand just hasn't been ringing the sack bell enough. But, in fairness to him, his DT compadres suck... which means he can be doubled in passing situations to neutralize his pass russhing prowess. On the other hand, I don't think Reed has ever faced a double team.

 

You also mention how Denney seems to be outplaying Kelsay... and there is definite evidence of that. Denney was a whipping boy up until the last half of last season and has a year up on Kelsay. It looks as though Denney has finally gotten it. Perhaps Kelsay is on the verge too.

 

But the bottom line.... to compare Williams vs. Kelsay just aint the same thing. Kelsay's got game... Williams doesn't.

[nodnarb]

jeezuz...you still haven't realized that he's playing a ROLE in the defense, and his role in some games is not to rush the passer?

 

Kelsay is playing solid football. So is Denney. The fact that Kelsay is not piling on the sacks is irrelevant. Does Willie McGuinnest get sacks consistently? No, only when the game plan calls for him to play that role. Same for every good defense.

 

If you're a statwatcher, you won't see much. Watch the tape of Kelsay and you'll see he's doing his job well. Each guy plays a role, and it's about the element of surprise. There will be days when Schobel doesn't get a pass rush because the called plays are designed to make him hold the point or drop back into coverage and let a LB blitz.

 

Would he have had a "bad game" if he didn't get any sacks, but FLetcher got 2? No, he'd have done his job to allow Fletcher those opportunities.

[GG]

Take it easy on the guy. He's a lunch pail high motor guy, who at least can drive a truck to the games.

[ganesh]

Yeah, Josh Reed gets cut a lot of slack around here...

505500[/snapback]

I guess because they are all 2nd round picks...and not the 4th overall pick..

 

I agree though...when it comes to team, you have to find out who is your

best playing XI. Salaray cap should not count....

[Coach Tuesday]

jeezuz...you still haven't realized that he's playing a ROLE in the defense, and his role in some games is not to rush the passer?

 

Kelsay is playing solid football. So is Denney. The fact that Kelsay is not piling on the sacks is irrelevant. Does Willie McGuinnest get sacks consistently? No, only when the game plan calls for him to play that role. Same for every good defense.

 

If you're a statwatcher, you won't see much. Watch the tape of Kelsay and you'll see he's doing his job well. Each guy plays a role, and it's about the element of surprise. There will be days when Schobel doesn't get a pass rush because the called plays are designed to make him hold the point or drop back into coverage and let a LB blitz.

 

Would he have had a "bad game" if he didn't get any sacks, but FLetcher got 2? No, he'd have done his job to allow Fletcher those opportunities.

505536[/snapback]

 

His "role" often is to be disruptive, which he isn't, enough. Also, his role is to make the occasional tackle at or before the LOS on running plays to the outside - which he fails to do, too often. In the Atlanta game, whether or not it was his role, he consistently took himself out of the play by rushing upfield past Vick.

 

Denney is playing much stronger at the point of attack, from what I've seen - he wins his battles more often (but still not often enough). Kelsay will be a free agent after next season, and if he doesn't play significantly better next year, it's gonna be hard to justify keeping him.

[Mickey]

jeezuz...you still haven't realized that he's playing a ROLE in the defense, and his role in some games is not to rush the passer?

 

Kelsay is playing solid football. So is Denney. The fact that Kelsay is not piling on the sacks is irrelevant. Does Willie McGuinnest get sacks consistently? No, only when the game plan calls for him to play that role. Same for every good defense.

 

If you're a statwatcher, you won't see much. Watch the tape of Kelsay and you'll see he's doing his job well. Each guy plays a role, and it's about the element of surprise. There will be days when Schobel doesn't get a pass rush because the called plays are designed to make him hold the point or drop back into coverage and let a LB blitz.

 

Would he have had a "bad game" if he didn't get any sacks, but FLetcher got 2? No, he'd have done his job to allow Fletcher those opportunities.

505536[/snapback]

Given the preformance of our defense this year, I would be hard pressed to say that any one of our starters is playing solid football.

[Spiderweb]

His "role" often is to be disruptive, which he isn't, enough.  Also, his role is to make the occasional tackle at or before the LOS on running plays to the outside - which he fails to do, too often.  In the Atlanta game, whether or not it was his role, he consistently took himself out of the play by rushing upfield past Vick. 

 

Denney is playing much stronger at the point of attack, from what I've seen - he wins his battles more often (but still not often enough).  Kelsay will be a free agent after next season, and if he doesn't play significantly better next year, it's gonna be hard to justify keeping him.

505552[/snapback]

Now that's exactly what I'm seeing with Kelsay, although you said it in a far more civil manner than I would have. To this fan and observer, Kelsay has been a significant disappointment. Denny (last game in particular) seems to make more plays and to date has out played Kelsay.

 

For those who think Kelsay is being double teamed, get real. On occasion maybe, but he's simply not beating the opposition's RT. Disappointment, yes sir, big disappointment.

[Ramius]

His "role" often is to be disruptive, which he isn't, enough.  Also, his role is to make the occasional tackle at or before the LOS on running plays to the outside - which he fails to do, too often.  In the Atlanta game, whether or not it was his role, he consistently took himself out of the play by rushing upfield past Vick. 

 

Denney is playing much stronger at the point of attack, from what I've seen - he wins his battles more often (but still not often enough).  Kelsay will be a free agent after next season, and if he doesn't play significantly better next year, it's gonna be hard to justify keeping him.

505552[/snapback]

 

 

Now that's exactly what I'm seeing with Kelsay, although you said it in a far more civil manner than I would have. To this fan and observer, Kelsay has been a significant disappointment. Denny (last game in particular) seems to make more plays and to date has out played Kelsay.

 

For those who think Kelsay is being double teamed, get real. On occasion maybe, but he's simply not beating the opposition's RT.  Disappointment, yes sir, big disappointment.

505562[/snapback]

 

 

Ahh, i see much more clearly now. So you 2 are in direct contact with Jerry Gray and know Kelsay's responsibilites and assignments are on every down and can say that he's not doing his role. Hate to break it to you, but a DE doesnt always bullrush the passer. But unfortunately, you 2 and the rest of the hot pockets crowd dont see him piling up sack numbers, so therefore he isnt doing his job and needs to be cut.

[DeeRay]

Kelsay isn't the cause of the piss poor play of the defense... he may be a contributor to a degree. But if the DTs were doing their jobs, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The DT play has been abysmal. Sam Adams wasn't benched because he was making plays and doing his job. And, the reason Mike Williams got dispatched to pine city was not because he was planting defensive linemen.

 

Denney wasn't doing so hot till late last season. A lot of us were on his arse. Denney is a hard worker and seems to finally have gotten it... as I mentioned in my earlier post. Kelsay, likewise is a hard worker and in the middle of his 3rd season. If Jerry Gray or Malarkey thought Kelsay wasn't cutting the mustard, you'd see him on the sidelines in a heartbeat because Denney is more than up to the task of taking over for him right now.

[BB2004]

If we're all gonna pile on big Mike, shouldn't Kelsay get some heat, too?  This guy coulda been a first round pick (can you imagine?), and he hasn't made a play since the Houston game.  IMO, he's being outplayed by Denney, an average player who he was drafted to replace.  Kelsay, where are you?  Time to step up.

505492[/snapback]

 

Denney is turning out to be a decent football player. With 4 sacks on the season he's creating pressure off that side of the ball. I think what we are getting out of Denney is probably what we'll conitnue to see, not dominate football, but good football. Kelsay will come around, right now, he's probably frusturated he's not making plays.

[stuckincincy]

RE: Kelsey.

 

I read a while back about the appearent diminishment of the DT position regarding pass rush - IIRC, it said what with FA, dominant dt's seem to be on the wane.

 

I'm not so sure about FA, but these days, a dt that gets 50 or 60 tackles and assists per season seems typical.

 

The local paper here ran a feature a few days, comparing the '88 Bengals vs today's club. A glaring statistic - which I checked out, was that Krumrie had a combined 151 tackles (!).

 

I know that there are exceptional DT's, and exceptional DE's - Freeney of course comes to mind. But I'm wondering if the rule changes, emphasis of the passing game in the past several years has shifted an amount of responsibility to the lb's and the db's.

 

That is, the "classic", if you will, pass-rushing DE has been supplanted by the so-called "tweeners". Or safeties and/or cornerbacks being sent in, in hopes of sacks.

 

So with regards to Kelsay, perhaps he is just playing the DE position as it seems (to me) to have evolved into.

 

Just a personal observation to kick around - and I defer to the good folks here who record and review games, and welcome their opinions.

[John from Riverside]

I have long been a Kelsay advocate but I agree with Coach Tuesday here.....

 

Kelsay isn't doing squat.

 

I really expected this to be a breakout year for him.....and it isn't materializing.

 

We really need to draft on our lines this next year.

[stuckincincy]

I have long been a Kelsay advocate but I agree with Coach Tuesday here.....

 

Kelsay isn't doing squat.

 

I really expected this to be a breakout year for him.....and it isn't materializing. 

 

We really need to draft on our lines this next year.

505765[/snapback]

 

 

Thanks, John. I get to see only a tv game or two per year, and pretty much have only stats and interpretation thereof, to go by.

[Bill from NYC]

Thanks, John. I get to see only a tv game or two per year, and pretty much have only stats and interpretation thereof, to go by.

505821[/snapback]

 

I for one give CK a bit more room.

The kid is fast and has some nice moves. Even when PW was here, he has never played next to a DT who was able to generate much pass rush. Yes, I know about Adams and his quick first step, but I have never seen a guy that size get to the qb very often. I have seen him run into OTs while safeties or others get through on blitzes.

 

Many (imo) underestimate our 3 DEs. I know that Schobel's 2 sacks on sunday were vs. a backup LT, and I don't care. He must always be accounted for by opposing offenses because of his speed. Denney looks very good this year, and I think that CK will produce more in the 2nd half.

 

DE is a very hard position to fill, and it looks to me as if this position is something of a bright spot for the Bills. I hope they extend Denney and worry about the DT position.

[jester43]

His "role" often is to be disruptive, which he isn't, enough.  Also, his role is to make the occasional tackle at or before the LOS on running plays to the outside - which he fails to do, too often.  In the Atlanta game, whether or not it was his role, he consistently took himself out of the play by rushing upfield past Vick. 

 

Denney is playing much stronger at the point of attack, from what I've seen - he wins his battles more often (but still not often enough).  Kelsay will be a free agent after next season, and if he doesn't play significantly better next year, it's gonna be hard to justify keeping him.

505552[/snapback]

 

 

hey man don't sweat it...it only took bruce smith 10 years to learn how to play the run!

[lawnboy1977]

I racked up 19 sacks in Madden with Kelsay, on the all pro level!!