Greg Easterbrook on Mike Williams

[Rico]

In poetry "paragraphs" are known as "stanzas."

505385[/snapback]

Exactly. Nice to see another poetry fan out there!

 

Most gangsta rappers are quite polite in person

by Francine DuBois

 

Most gangsta rappers are quite polite in person:

Willing to open yo' 40 fo' ya,

Holdin' da door open fo' all dem bitchez and hoes,

Respectful of their moms,

Pinkies out when swiggin' Cristal,

Askin yo' name befo' cappin' yo' ass,

Not framin' just anybody fo' a nightclub shootin',

Lettin' their kids win at Madden sometimes,

Much love to Scarface -- the greatest American hero --

With justice and peace fo' the peeps

That know what time it is.

[mike22nc]

Mike Williams has been our best O-lineman for the past year and a half, and while that isn't saying much, to say that he's one of the biggest busts of the 21st century is ridiculous. Has he been worth the money? No. Has he lived up to being the 4th pick? No. But he wasn't benched because of his poor performance at RT. He was injured, and Peters came in and played very well in his place. The Bills wanted to get their best 5 lineman on the field, Bennie Anderson had been playing terribly, so the Bills tried to move Williams to guard.

 

The only thing I dont get is why we didn't leave Williams at RT, move Gandy to LG, the position he is most accustomed to, and put Peters in at LT, the position we were suposedly grooming him to take over.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Mike Williams has been our best O-lineman for the past year and a half, and while that isn't saying much, to say that he's one of the biggest busts of the 21st century is ridiculous.  Has he been worth the money? No.  Has he lived up to being the 4th pick? No.  But he wasn't benched because of his poor performance at RT.  He was injured, and Peters came in and played very well in his place.  The Bills wanted to get their best 5 lineman on the field, Bennie Anderson had been playing terribly, so the Bills tried to move Williams to guard. 

 

The only thing I dont get is why we didn't leave Williams at RT, move Gandy to LG, the position he is most accustomed to, and put Peters in at LT, the position we were suposedly grooming him to take over.

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I agree that MW has been a big time disappointment to Bills fans, but this says a lot more about the CBA and his contract than it says about his play which has topped out as adequate and hopeful and bottomed out as mediocre as an RT at times and he sucked in his first game at LG.

 

Overall, my sense of MW's career is this:

 

Rookie year- pretty good and quite hopeful for a rookie, He was an immediate starter in the NFK and was adequate at worst and actually proved to be quite productive as a run blocker in a very successful O which saw his RB make the Pro Bowl, his QB and a WR make it as reserves and the other WR being left out with 94 receptions. The pass pro with MW gave up way too many sacks, but the prescence of an immobile QB and a pass-happy O were a bigger part of this problem than any rookie struggles for MW.

 

2nd year- Saw some definite struggles as the pass pro problems continued. This time part of the problem could be directly linked to poor play at times by MW, but the problem was not outside speed rushes but actually poor coordination with first time RG starter Pacillo. His RB again was a productive runner and the O has such general problems with Kevin Killdrive's refusal to change his system that simply faulting MW ignores too many other problems.

 

One also began to see the lack of progress in MWs game as for the second year in the row his OL position coach had but 1 year of experience at the position and it was rediculous requiring MW to be the experienced part of his partnership with the RG.

 

3rd year- The lack of forward progress turned into a full scale remission as MW missed all the "voluntary" minicamps and then showed up for pre0season fat and out of shape. This poor performance was at least understandable as the Grandmother who had raised him died. However, though him being heartbroken is understandable his unprofessional reaction to this trauma is not condonable at all. Too many teammates depend on MW as well as a region and he is simply too well paid for him to have a meltdown even from this extreme stress.

 

The good news is that he did finally react properly from some good stick and carrot coaching by JMac who both threatened to move him to guard and then oversaw him earning a gameball for his play by mid-season.

 

Still, the damage was done as the Bills had drafted him in a slot which called for an LT size contract and it appears quite likely that TD chose him with the thought/hope of him developing well enough to slide to LT just as Jennings was going. MW's play and come back from a legitmate fear as the 2004 season began that he might be a bust provided some hope that if he continued to play in 2005 as he was developing overall in 2004 then perhaps he could make the switch to LT.

 

4th year- Be it injuries or lack of desire this season has not seen MW continue his progress and legitimate questions now reign as to how you might least painfully dump him (though his cap hit and contract may make that imposible at least for another year. He in fact merited a move, but it turned out to be to LG as the motivation in finding the best 5 OL players turned out to be a desire to replaced to flawed Anderson and to find a spot for the athletic Jason Peters.

 

One ironic benefit of this move is that it may have lit a fire under Anderson who though the run blocking was still insufficent against KC, the pass pro for the mobile JP was much improved with Anderson in there after a concussion of Holcomb in part resulted in MW getting pulled. Still the bug-a-boo in Anderson;s game as been his constant penalties which if this was due to a lack of focus getting benched may well have added focus to his game.

 

If this is true, MW may end up not being one of our best 5 OL players has folks have been impressed with Peters work in two games at RT.

 

Overall, I think MW is headed toward being a bust. However he has proved to be adequate in at least 2+ pf jis nearly 4 seasons. However, adequate though not a bust like a Ryan leaf is not what we paid for and if he is not one of our best 5 he probably has to go. It ain't over until its over, so well see.

 

In addition, it seems a bit rediculous to fault TD much in this case. It seems to be fairly true that really only about 50% of 1st rounders turn out like one hopes for most GMs. TD has gotten 6 players using the first round asset in his 5 years. In total, the 6 incude 3 choices that have worked out (Clements, McGahee, Evans), 1 failure to date (MW), 1 who its still too early to tell (JP) and the extra choice of Bledsoe is a wash in my judgment deservedly making the Pro Bowl his first year and then being a total bust his second. As far as 1st round choices I think TD is comfortably ahead of the 50% success rate in his 5 years.

[Chilly]

BCS Bowl Omens Watch: Texas led Kansas by an insurmountable 52-7, yet Longhorns star Vince Young was still on the field in the third quarter and still heaving passes as Texas frantically ran up the score in yet another display of bad sportsmanship. Out in California, Matt Leinart took a seat once USC led by an insurmountable 32 points and from that juncture the Trojans did attempt a pass. Increasingly TMQ thinks a Texas-USC championship will be a walkover for the Trojans: The Longhorns are practically begging to be put in their place by the football gods.

 

This is the same idiot that said this.

[obie_wan]

What about the pick before him, sitting on the bench behind a 35 year-old made of glass....?

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hey - don't laugh- Joey H would have been our QB if Matt Millen didn't make the mistake.

[Dan Gross]

hey - don't laugh- Joey H would have been our QB if Matt Millen didn't make the mistake.

505530[/snapback]

 

Does it make what I said any less true?

[Dawgg]

Nope, but he was quoted as saying that by an unnamed source. In fact, Peter King of SI reported that last year. But I don't need a report to tell me that.

 

You can tell by his uninspired play. You can tell that he has no fire inside him whatsoever. And you can tell by the fact that he shows up to camp out of shape year after year.

 

If you need it to come directly out of his mouth in person, that won't happen. And no, I don't think it's overboard...

 

Did he tell you that ? 

 

These guys sweat out 12 months in the year......There are many reasons

why a player is a bust...he did not fit the team philosophy.....having a OL

coach every year in his 1st 3 years of his career....having a different

coaching system in 2 years....

 

I am not giving excuses for this players failure...but to call him to be only

interested in cashing his checks is a little overboard.

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[BB2004]

MW may have been a good pick at the time. He has all the ability in the world. Here's the problem I have: the great majority of his problems stem from a lack of desire.  He doesn't care about being a good football player, rather he is more concerned with cashing his weekly checks.

 

Now that's an attitude problem.

 

If any organization (sports, corporate, whatever) is going to make a $50+ million on an individual, it is the responsibility of that organization to perform a thorough background analysis and character assessment.  One can only wonder if those mental issues would have been apparent had more research been done.

505314[/snapback]

 

That's an interesting analogy. If it is truly lack of desire, don't you think management would have known that before we drafted him? I put that one on management. For having the number one pick for an offensive tackle that year, management needs to get that right.

[e-dog]

That's an interesting analogy.  If it is truly lack of desire, don't you think management would have known that before we drafted him?  I put that one on management.  For having the number one pick for an offensive tackle that year, management needs to get that right.

505640[/snapback]

 

Obviously not and Bingo.

[johnk]

When a reporter asked him about the move to LG from RT, Mike Williams had an interesting response. He only commented about the possible negative affect on HIS career. In the ultimate TEAM sport, this is a little self-centered.

 

I know we all have to get paid, but c'mon let's talk what's best for the team. He just finds out he ahas been demoted.... GET MAD or something, don't give us this CAREER crap..... I agree that he needs a HEART transplant.

 

He is on the slippery slope.

 

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Nope, but he was quoted as saying that by an unnamed source. In fact, Peter King of SI reported that last year.  But I don't need a report to tell me that.

 

You can tell by his uninspired play.  You can tell that he has no fire inside him whatsoever.  And you can tell by the fact that he shows up to camp out of shape year after year.

 

If you need it to come directly out of his mouth in person, that won't happen.  And no, I don't think it's overboard...

505613[/snapback]

 

 

From the reports I have seen MW has simply NOT shown up at camp out of shape year after year and unless there is something you know that other folks don't I think you are wrong on this point.

 

Rookie year- MW was ing good shape bolstered by the workout one needed to do to perform well so you got a high draft pick and big contract. MW performed functionally well at the Combine having great numbers in tasks such as the shuttle run. The time between Combine and the pre-season is not incredibly long and he showed no particular signs of being out of shape at his first camp.

 

Year 2- I have no specific recollection of his reporting in poor shape or great shape. However, his performance in games does not seem to reflect him showing up out of shape and then playing himself into condition. An outside observer Bills Daily did not site MW specifically but rated the OL work for the game as A work with the only problem being a couple of sacks he faulted Bledsoe on for hanging onto the ball too long. The second game saw the Bills rack up over 40 points on MN and the OL play was long and effective. MW did not start all 16 but the injuries occured in the second half of the season and do not seem consistent with the slow start you describe because he showed up out of shape.

 

Year 3- This was definitely the year he showed up out of shape, but this specifically happened because of his unprofessional meltdown after his Grammy's death. One could see him being out of shape not simply through subjective observations but he ended up injuring himself and missing pre-season games as he struggled to get into shape. Ironically, he did get back into shape prodded by some threats from JMac and the Bills and had what many outside observers consider to be his best year as a Bill as he even got a gameball by midseason for his work.

 

Year 4- The observations of outsiders completely contradicts your complaint that he shows up out of shape as it was reported this year that MW actually showed good signs that he worked out this off-season and he was in the best shape of his carreer. These subjective judgments are probably true as it came from several sources and the big boy did not look monstrously out of shape to me. However, ironically. this did not have any objective effects as injuries have been a real issue for him this year.

 

Its easy for someone to know something I do not know (just ask my wife and she will tell you how wrong I can be) but the accusation that MW has showed up year after year out of shape simply does not fit the objective facts or even the subjective reports that there was 1 of his 4 camps where he showed up out of shape.

[Dawgg]

Go by what you read, but that's pretty much all it is: what you read. The bottom line is that Mike Williams has not been in top football shape for a while. I have gone to camp on numerous occassions and noticed it myself. He's slow, both mentally and physically during camp and as a suffered mental lapses during games at critical junctures.

 

It does not reflect well on Bills management to tell the media year after year that MW has appeared out of shape -- it was convenient to do so during year 3 because he missed all the OTAs.

 

The real shame here is that MW in my opinion "could" be a great player if he had the desire. He simply doesn't.

 

From the reports I have seen MW has simply NOT shown up at camp out of shape year after year and unless there is something you know that other folks don't I think you are wrong on this point.

 

Rookie year- MW was ing good shape bolstered by the workout one needed to do to perform well so you got a high draft pick and big contract.  MW performed functionally well at the Combine having great numbers in tasks such as the shuttle run.  The time between Combine and the pre-season is not incredibly long and he showed no particular signs of being out of shape at his first camp.

 

Year 2- I have no specific recollection of his reporting in poor shape or great shape.  However, his performance in games does not seem to reflect him showing up out of shape and then playing himself into condition.  An outside observer Bills Daily did not site MW specifically but rated the OL work for the game as A work with the only problem being a couple of sacks he faulted Bledsoe on for hanging onto the ball too long. The second game saw the Bills rack up over 40 points on MN and the OL play was long and effective.  MW did not start all 16 but the injuries occured in the second half of the season and do not seem consistent with the slow start you describe because he showed up out of shape.

 

Year 3- This was definitely the year he showed up out of shape, but this specifically happened because of his unprofessional meltdown after his Grammy's death.  One could see him being out of shape not simply through subjective observations but he ended up injuring himself and missing pre-season games as he struggled to get into shape.  Ironically, he did get back into shape prodded by some threats from JMac and the Bills and had what many outside observers consider to be his best year as a Bill as he even got a gameball by midseason for his work.

 

Year 4- The observations of outsiders completely contradicts your complaint that he shows up out of shape as it was reported this year that MW actually showed good signs that he worked out this off-season and he was in the best shape of his carreer.  These subjective judgments are probably true as it came from several sources and the big boy did not look monstrously out of shape to me. However, ironically. this did not have any objective effects as injuries have been a real issue for him this year.

 

Its easy for someone to know something I do not know (just ask my wife and she will tell you how wrong I can be) but the accusation that MW has showed up year after year out of shape simply does not fit the objective facts or even the subjective reports that there was 1 of his 4 camps where he showed up out of shape.

505690[/snapback]

[Dan Gross]

2002:

Bills observers say first-round pick Mike Williams has looked good at right offensive tackle, but they weren’t the only ones singing the praises of Williams. Browns DE Kenard Lang, who got by Williams just once during intersquad practices believes Williams will be a great player. "I’ve been in the league six years, and I’ve faced all the good guys — Erik Williams, Tré Johnson, Larry Allen," Lang said. "(Mike Williams has) got a chance to be real special."

 

2005:

Bills: Massive OT Williams In Great Shape Heading Into Season

 

Mark Gaughan of the Buffalo News reports that it might be a stretch to call Mike Williams lean and mean this spring. When you're 375 pounds and as good-natured as the Buffalo Bills right tackle, the cliché doesn't quite fit. How about robust and resolved? Williams has himself in the best offseason shape of his young career and is determined to build on his success of last season.

 

"I felt pretty good at the end of last season about my performance," Williams said after Friday's practice in Orchard Park. "It definitely outweighs the two previous seasons. You kind of see and get a glimpse of what you can be and how good you can be. I think I saw that. It gives me a starting point for this year to build on. I gotta keep improving."

 

Williams' solid play over the last three-fourths of the Bills' season serves as motivation for the 25-year-old Texan. Williams thinks if he can make the kind of progress in his fourth season that he did in his third, he can rise into the elite category of offensive linemen in the NFL.

 

"I want to be in that category," he said. "I can't control what other people think and how they look at me. But I have to focus on getting better than last year. If I improve on that, those other things will take care of themselves."

 

Williams did not get off to a fast start last summer. Troubled by the health problems of several family members and by some bad financial advice he received, a distracted Williams showed up for training camp at more than 400 pounds. This year he says he's "hitting the ground running."

 

"I've come into the offseason with the mind-set that I just want to be physically in shape for training camp," he said. "I'm not focusing too much on strength wise. I don't know how much stronger I can get. It's just maintain muscle tone and maintain the strength that I have and stay in shape."

 

A typical bench-press session for the 6-foot-6, 375-pounder is 325 pounds in sets of eight repetitions. That kind of strength gives Williams road-grading potential in the Bills' power running game. Williams says he is more careful about his diet than ever, avoiding all soft drinks and fast food because he wants to create eating habits that will lead to a healthy lifestyle even after his playing career ends.

 

Yeah, that really sounds like an unmotivated slouch who is just here to collect a paycheck... Now let's see your links that clearly counter that...

[Fezmid]

Now let's see your links that clearly counter that...

505715[/snapback]

He doesn't need links, he said that he went to camp and saw that MW was slow, both mentallly and physically. Obviously Dawwg is an astute judge of talent from the sidelines.

CW

[San-O]

Mike Williams has been our best O-lineman for the past year and a half, and while that isn't saying much, to say that he's one of the biggest busts of the 21st century is ridiculous.  Has he been worth the money? No.  Has he lived up to being the 4th pick? No.  But he wasn't benched because of his poor performance at RT.  He was injured, and Peters came in and played very well in his place.  The Bills wanted to get their best 5 lineman on the field, Bennie Anderson had been playing terribly, so the Bills tried to move Williams to guard. 

 

The only thing I dont get is why we didn't leave Williams at RT, move Gandy to LG, the position he is most accustomed to, and put Peters in at LT, the position we were suposedly grooming him to take over.

505441[/snapback]

 

 

Uh, no. Coaches apparently seeing it differently.

 

 

http://www.billsdaily.com/depthchart/

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Go by what you read, but that's pretty much all it is:  what you read.  The bottom line is that Mike Williams has not been in top football shape for a while.  I have gone to camp on numerous occassions and noticed it myself. He's slow, both mentally and physically during camp and as a suffered mental lapses during games at critical junctures.

 

It does not reflect well on Bills management to tell the media year after year that MW has appeared out of shape -- it was convenient to do so during year 3 because he missed all the OTAs.

 

The real shame here is that MW in my opinion "could" be a great player if he had the desire. He simply doesn't.

505701[/snapback]

 

This isn't simply based on what I read but by some objective standards of results. Both what one reads about what shape he is and what one sees and jusdges his shape to be when we go to workouts are subjective standards. The objective standards are his performance on the field.

 

is there anything objective that you can site which points to him showing up in presaeson out of shape year after year which adds to or counters.

 

1. His rookie year he was in shape well enough at the spring combine to produce obnectively good results which got his drafted 4th such as his results in drills even though he is a massive specimen. Perhaps you want to argue that he somehow got out of shape between mid-spring and mid-summer when he came to camp, but objecively he became an immediate starter and participated in a very effective O his rookie year.

 

2. His second year there are fewer objective showings of good production but again the results are adequate at worst since he was part of a productive run game. His pass pro game had some problems, but again objectively (and even subjectively) there is no record of the sacks he was involved showing signs of him being out of shape physically. he was repeatedly beaten on outside speed rushes perhaps this is the case, but instead he showed mental and co-ordination difficulties with Pacillo as the two of them were confused and ineffective on stunts. Again attempting to look at this objectively, if he reports out of shape and plays into shape one might expect to see more injuries and nicks early (as happened in his 3rd year when he did show up out of shape and injured his ankle trying to get back in shape and missed a couple of pre-season games) but he went uninjured until roughly game 10. Looking at this objectively in terms of results and subjectively in terms of reports of OL play in the first two games of that season (when allegedly MW is out of shape) in both games the O was effective in doing their job (even putting up over 40 points on MN) and there is not evidence either objective or subjective of MW producing badly in an a productive O.

 

3. His third year he did report out of shape as seen objectively in his pre-season injuries as he worked to get in shape and logically seen from his non-attendance at "vouluntary" practices. However, these objective showing and subjective observations that he did report out of shape this one year, points to it being quite likely false that he reported out of shape year after year.

 

There is only subjective evidence that he was in great shape when he reported, so this has to be taken with a grain of salt. Yet as detailed in a couple of links provided above these testimonials actually went beyond saying that he showed up in OK shape but actually sang the praises of the results of his workouts as him actually being in great shape.

 

I think that the view that he had shown up out of shape year after year is what is based on the subjective evidence of what is written or what less informed non-professional observers such as YOU AND I feel we see. However, a look at objective measures show him showing up in good shape his first year, probably his second year, not in good shape his third camp (though fortunately he dealt with this to have what many crtics feel was his best year as a Bill though the perfoemance still fell below or expectations).

 

This season there are pretty commonly sited subjective reports that he showed up in the best shape he ever was in as a Bill. The objective output by MW does not add up to him being the best ever at anything this year. however, I think the evidence points to him being weak from working out toomuch if anything because injuries are clearly an issue for him this year.

 

However, the thought that he shows up out of shape year after year seems contrarty to the objective evidence as he does seem to have been in good enough shape to produce adequately (though not extraordinarily well) his first two year. He was out of shape though it led to what was likely his best year as a Bill last year and subjectively he actually came to camp in great shape this year though this did not translate into good objective results.

 

As far as him showing up out of shape year after year in his four years though subjectively you saw what you saw, ojectively what you saw simply seems incorrect.

[DPR4444]

I prefer to think of it this way...we have a #4 overall draft pick and an undrafted free agent. One of them is starting at RT, and one of them is on the bench, Works for me.

 

In the end, we have a starting RT, so does it really matter which is which?

505377[/snapback]

 

 

i guess they should trade paychecks then?

[Dawgg]

That article speaks to nothing regarding his motivation. He came into camp looking lean and mean? That's the biggest horsecrap I have ever heard because he sure doesn't play mean.

 

He has the ability to be a top 10 tackle in this league but simply doesn't apply himself. Any player who miss all of the voluntary minicamps in ANY season doesn't have a whole lot of desire. Holding out for a better contract? Not Big Mike. He just didn't want to play the game because of problems he was facing off the field... he hasn't been the same ever since.

 

So yes, I think it is reasonable to say he's a slouch looking to collect a paycheck.

 

 

2002:

2005:

Yeah, that really sounds like an unmotivated slouch who is just here to collect a paycheck...    Now let's see your links that clearly counter that...

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[Dawgg]

http://www.billsdaily.com/depthchart/

 

There's a link for ya.

 

2002:

2005:

Yeah, that really sounds like an unmotivated slouch who is just here to collect a paycheck...    Now let's see your links that clearly counter that...

505715[/snapback]

[The Dean]

Link

505340[/snapback]

 

 

Deep. Really...deep