Peter King on Nate Clements

[ch19079]

Regardless of his unquestioned talent level, some points to consider..

 

1. Is Clements worth 60+ Mil ( He wants Champ Bailey $$) and a huge hit on your cap?

2. Since the Bills are a team needing an obvious influx of talent on both the O and D Line, is Clements the player you devote your big $$ to, leaving the lines in their present state ?

3.  Isn't your best Pass defense a good pass rush ?

4.  If every teams RB is gaining 100 + yards against us, why do we need to devote 60+ Mil to a CB ? To make tackles 15 yards downfield ?  He isn't part of the front 7. 

 

Logical thinking sucks..

503424[/snapback]

spread that money over 7 years, and its not that bad. restructure Williams contract will get you some more space.

 

i think you underestimate what clements does for our team. do you want McGee to start as the #1 cb? i sure as hell dont. so you would have to sign a FA. that FA is going to take up cap space too. i would rather spend a little more on clements.

 

a young, very tallented, shut down CB, who likes to tackle, who has been in our defensive system for several years... is a player you want on your team. if you wont resign him, who would you resign??

[e-dog]

spread that money over 7 years, and its not that bad. restructure Williams contract will get you some more space.

 

i think you underestimate what clements does for our team. do you want McGee to start as the #1 cb? i sure as hell dont. so you would have to sign a FA. that FA is going to take up cap space too. i would rather spend a little more on clements.

 

a young, very tallented, shut down CB, who likes to tackle, who has been in our defensive system for several years... is a player you want on your team. if you wont resign him, who would you resign??

503471[/snapback]

 

Good points. Knowing TD he will probably go with McGee as the #1, King as the #2, and rookie as #3 and not spend any money on a fa.

 

You want cap space. Cut Mikey, Vincent, Milloy, Posey, Teague, Fletcher, Adams, B.Anderson, and even Moulds.

I'm not a cap guy but that has to leave you some money and all ofthose guys are either on their last leg or stink.

[Fan in Chicago]

Regardless of his unquestioned talent level, some points to consider..

 

1. Is Clements worth 60+ Mil ( He wants Champ Bailey $$) and a huge hit on your cap?

2. Since the Bills are a team needing an obvious influx of talent on both the O and D Line, is Clements the player you devote your big $$ to, leaving the lines in their present state ?

3.  Isn't your best Pass defense a good pass rush ?

4.  If every teams RB is gaining 100 + yards against us, why do we need to devote 60+ Mil to a CB ? To make tackles 15 yards downfield ?  He isn't part of the front 7. 

 

Logical thinking sucks..

503424[/snapback]

 

Good points all but I agree with e-dog. Last year, we tried to feel good after losing PW with similar arguments. But now we feel the pain. While I still agree that there is a value for every player, we should make every effort to keep him. It will boil down to how greedy he really is. If he agrees to a cap-friendly long term deal with a good upfront signing bonus, there is no reason not to keep him notwithstanding the other needs of the team. There are some players we should keep even if we don't think they are one of the top five in the league. My list of long-term keepers: Eric Moulds, NC, MW. Yes, I said it - MW.

[Bill from NYC]

There are some players we should keep even if we don't think they are one of the top five in the league. My list of long-term keepers: Eric Moulds, NC, MW. Yes, I said it - MW.

503517[/snapback]

 

Help me out here....are you saying that you want to keep the above mentioned players at their current salaries?

I ask this because Moulds is getting old, and MW makes perhaps 5 times what he is worth. Yes, I said it - perhaps five times what he is worth.

[Rico]

Help me out here....are you saying that you want to keep the above mentioned players at their current salaries?

I ask this because Moulds is getting old, and MW makes perhaps 5 times what he is worth. Yes, I said it - perhaps five times what he is worth. 

503528[/snapback]

That's a little harsh.

 

I'd say 4x.

[Fan in Chicago]

Help me out here....are you saying that you want to keep the above mentioned players at their current salaries?

I ask this because Moulds is getting old, and MW makes perhaps 5 times what he is worth. Yes, I said it - perhaps five times what he is worth. 

503528[/snapback]

 

Absolutely not at the current salaries !! Better to sign NC and re-structure the other two this off-season so we lock them up.

[colin]

i want clements to be a bill.

 

that said, i would support not resigning him if we get something out of it/get somebody with the money we would have otherwise spent.

 

if we move vincent to corner and barker to fs, we won't have TOO much drop off in the secondary, and might be able to go out and sign le'charles and hutch, making our line super charged.

 

we might cut big mike, but when he has been healthy he has been a meh pass blocker and a dominant run blocker. the best possibility for the team would be for him to come down on his contract and we put him at RT and work peters at LT.

 

teague is gone and for about 1.5Mil more a year we can have a top flight guy like bently at center, so i'd go with that.

 

all this said, if we get clements to sign a not crazy champ bailey contract we could keep him, draft a DT or 2, get edwards and spikes back from injury and STILL sign at least 2 more upgrade o linemen (through the draft and by teague leaving) and perhaps have the best overall team we have in a long while.

 

no matter what, i think we will get clements or an extra pick and some good new players for our team this offseason.

[Rico]

Absolutely not at the current salaries !! Better to sign NC and re-structure the other two this off-season so we lock them up.

503558[/snapback]

As John Fogerty once said, it's deja vu all over again.

Welcome to salary cap hell.

[Bill from NYC]

As John Fogerty once said, it's deja vu all over again.

Welcome to salary cap hell.

503569[/snapback]

 

Not sure how you mean that, nor am I claiming to be anything near an expert (as IS clumpy), but I think that in 07, the Bills could have tons and tons of cap room.

 

Think about it. Moulds and MW ALREADY COUNT toward the 07 cap. They are under contract for that season, so their numbers apply. I think that clumpy stated that MW would cost almost 11 mil. in 07. If he is cut beofre 6/1/06, the bonus becomes accelerated and the salary negated, for both 06 and 07.

 

Again, I don't know about 06. clumpy does. But in 07, I can see the Bills being WAY, WAY under.

[Rico]

Not sure how you mean that, nor am I claiming to be anything near an expert (as IS clumpy), but I think that in 07, the Bills could have tons and tons of cap room.

 

Think about it. Moulds and MW ALREADY COUNT toward the 07 cap. They are under contract for that season, so their numbers apply. I think that clumpy stated that MW would cost almost 11 mil. in 07. If he is cut beofre 6/1/06, the bonus becomes accelerated and the salary negated, for both 06 and 07.

 

Again, I don't know about 06. clumpy does. But in 07, I can see the Bills being WAY, WAY under.

503575[/snapback]

If they are both cut after this season, 06 will be tough, but 07 will indeed look good.

 

But if they are extended (WITHOUT a massive PAY CUT), I see nothing but trouble:

MW = John Fina, only a lot more $$$.

Moulds would be uncharted territory, even Butler had enough sense to let the Big 3 go on that sad, sad day.

 

In any event, just say NO to an extension without a big paycut.

[Bill from NYC]

Agreed on if they are both cut after this season, 06 will be tough, but 07 will indeed look good.

 

But if they are extended (WITHOUT a massive PAY CUT), I see nothing but trouble:

MW = John Fina, Ruben Brown only a lot more $$$.

Moulds would be uncharted territory, even Butler had enough sense to let the Big 3 go on that sad, sad day.

503589[/snapback]

 

You forgot Ostroski.

I couldn't agree with you more!!! Sometimes, GMs must bite the bullet and take the hit.

Seriously, how long has it been since we were on the exact same page on a Bills issue? It even feels strange. If this keeps up, I will soon expect you to tell me that Bledsoe is having a good season.

Nah, never mind!

[ch19079]

gees, it sure does suck to have a top 5 CB on our team.

 

why cant we be lucky and have no CBs worth a damn. they are really cheap.

[Rico]

You forgot Ostroski. 

I couldn't agree with you more!!! Sometimes, GMs must bite the bullet and take the hit.

Seriously, how long has it been since we were on the exact same page on a Bills issue? It even feels strange. If this keeps up, I will soon expect you to tell me that Bledsoe is having a good season.

Nah, never mind!     

503593[/snapback]

I have to admit that, even though he did bumble through a lot of the game yesterday, he did step up at the end while DMac did not... but I also know that, in the end, I will have the last laugh.

[JoeFerguson]

Clements makes a lot of big plays, but I think if he wants to regard himself as the best corner in the league he needs to learn to stop making costly mistakes. For every big play he makes, he makes one bonehead play. Just off the top of my head, he couldn't stop a wounded Randy Moss, Deion Branch, didn't knock the ball down on 4th and long last year in week 1 against the Jags, and has muffed a few punts this year. He is still a great player, but the best CB in the league, no way. He needs to learn to shut up and put his money where his mouth is, kind of like McGahee.

[Pass the Pipe]

Nate Clements is maybe my favorite Bills player, but even I think he is being way overrated at this point.  His name never came up as one of the elite DB's in the leauge, until this off season, when he started getting mentioned as the best available corner, in next years' free agent crop....people (Bills fans especially) really ran with it.  He is a very good player, but, IMO, is still way too erratic to be considered the best, by anyone but himself.  In fact, I would dare say, Terrance McGee has outplayed him at corner....

 

Lets' not over-inflate his value, and hope we can re-sign him!

503312[/snapback]

 

You people are nuts, this guy is a very very good cornerback and if we let him get away we are crazy. He is physical and big and makes a lot of plays. Every great CB is going to look foolish from time to time, just see what TO did to Champ Bailey two weeks ago to get my point. Last year, he shut Chad Johnson completely out, granted Palmer was injuried, but still it was impressive. The only person that regularly burns this guy is Randy Moss and that is about it.

[Fixxxer]

Imo, this is where GMs need working relationships with certain agents. TD might need some cooperation to make a "tag and trade" possible.

 

Until I am convinced otherwise, I am thinking that an ideal scenario would be to tag NC, and trade him for a first round pick ala the Peerless deal, if of course there are any takers. Again, losing him would hurt, but having two 1sts and two 3rds lends itself to a ton of good possibilities.

 

Jmo.

503452[/snapback]

 

I'd like to believe that a smart GM would check all the posibilities about moving a player before going with the Tag & trade scenario. TD seems to be that kind of guy under this scenario as was evident with PP.

But for this to happen you have to see what other corners will hit the FA market and how deep is the draft with CBs next year.

We all saw how Henry's value went down because the RB offer last year was insane, both via FA and draft.

 

My questions are: What other CBs hit the FA market in 2006 and how deep is the draft regarding CBs?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I was also at the Ralph.  I don't remember what Qtr it was, but did you miss the 3rd down play where Chris Horn came back for a hitch pass and an apparant easy 1st down before Nate made a perfectly timed break on the ball?

503310[/snapback]

 

I think they may have gone to Greg Gumbel in NY for that pass defensed.

[jester43]

Agreed, eyedog...

unfortunately, I am no longer confident that TD can afford to bring him back,

thanks to the messy upcoming dead cap hits with MW & Moulds,

not to mention some less expensive ones like Vincent and (maybe) Adams.

503390[/snapback]

 

 

HOW IRONIC.

 

five years later and the bills have come full circle with a sh------- roster and back in "cap hell."

 

but seriously, donohoe has done a great job.

 

:fyou smiley:

[Kelly the Dog]

HOW IRONIC. 

 

five years later and the bills have come full circle with a sh------- roster and back in "cap hell."

 

but seriously, donohoe has done a great job.

 

:fyou smiley:

504109[/snapback]

We're not in cap hell at all. Just because you have difficult decisions to make, like whether you want to pay a player 10 million a year, doesn't mean you're in cap hell. We're actually in very good shape overall as far as the cap goes. We just have tough decisions to make on a couple players, one good, two not so good, that are in tricky salary years.

[jester43]

We're not in cap hell at all. Just because you have difficult decisions to make, like whether you want to pay a player 10 million a year, doesn't mean you're in cap hell. We're actually in very good shape overall as far as the cap goes. We just have tough decisions to make on a couple players, one good, two not so good, that are in tricky salary years.

504115[/snapback]

 

ok, i admit i am embellishing, but you get my point.

 

why in hell are we talking about "cap hits" in year five of this regime, with guys who were ostensibly signed to take us to superbowl!? this roster is springing leaks faster than TD can plug them!!