All Eyes on Bledsoe ?

[Bill from NYC]

Wow, how awesome to think about those guys.....That team used to be my favorite when I was a kid and used to stay up and watch MNF.....I didn't really become a huge football fan until I moved to Rochester, but those Chargers teams of the 80s ruled!

504384[/snapback]

 

I place Jefferson in a category with Michael Westbrook of the Redskins. Remember him? Both of these guys could have been in the Hall of Fame. Westbrook was so good that he was flat out scary. JJ had sub 10.0 speed, moves, and could make an acrobatic catch that would make Harrison jealous.

 

Drugs are bad.

[ATBNG]

Good question. Do you happen to remember the Charger receivers? They were perhaps the best of all time. JJ Jefferson (before the injuries and whatever else) was as good as almost anybody I ever saw, and I mean that literally. Look at the stats of Charlie Joiner too, and what did you think of Kellen Winslow?

How was Chuck Muncie?

 

Certainly you are not trying to make a case thast Drew couldn't hit these guys, right? C'mon, let's talk old time football. 

504380[/snapback]

 

No - that's a great point - that team was loaded like no other at the skill positions, but in general, the yard totals for QB's and (probably even more so) WR's has a great deal of inflation today that needs to be accounted for. Fouts is a bad comparison because he did have that cast, as well as play in the division that was ahead of its time in terms of style.

 

It's not to say that Drew sucks, but that it is not correct to look at his career yards and say that tells the whole story. His career W/L record is right around .500 despite having logged 7 out of his 13 years under Hall of Fame coaches.

[ajzepp]

I place Jefferson in a category with Michael Westbrook of the Redskins. Remember him? Both of these guys could have been in the Hall of Fame. Westbrook was so good that he was flat out scary. JJ had sub 10.0 speed, moves, and could make an acrobatic catch that would make Harrison jealous.

 

Drugs are bad.

504389[/snapback]

 

Yep, I was living in Baltimore for a few months in the fall of '95.....Health Shuler and Michael Westbrook were supposed to return the franchise to glory. Westbrook just didn't have the maturity to match his talent, I guess......

 

I don't remember anything all that specific about JJ, but the name really seems familiar to me. And I honestly have no idea why I loved watching them so much, other than the fact that they were just FUN to watch.....entertaining as hell when they had the ball. Some others on here have mentioned the MNF theme when they used to have a longer introduction, showing highlights of players and such......I used to get so excited when I'd tune in and the bolts would be playing.....helmets crashing together.....man, that was awesome!

[Alaska Darin]

Good question. Do you happen to remember the Charger receivers? They were perhaps the best of all time. JJ Jefferson (before the injuries and whatever else) was as good as almost anybody I ever saw, and I mean that literally. Look at the stats of Charlie Joiner too, and what did you think of Kellen Winslow?

How was Chuck Muncie?

 

Certainly you are not trying to make a case that Drew couldn't hit these guys, right? C'mon, let's talk old time football. 

 

EDIT: Fouts and Bledsoe threw the same type of sideline out patterns, wouldn't you agree. That side arm loft with just enough air, no?

504380[/snapback]

Drew would have been a much better quarterback in that era. As good as Fouts? Not in the mental aspect of the game, but back then it wouldn't have been as apparent. The zone blitz and increased athleticism on the defensive side of the ball have contributed mightily to exposing the mental part of Drew's game.

[Bill from NYC]

No - that's a great point - that team was loaded like no other at the skill positions, but in general, the yard totals for QB's and (probably even more so) WR's has a great deal of inflation today that needs to be accounted for. Fouts is a bad comparison because he did have that cast, as well as play in the division that was ahead of its time in terms of style.

 

It's not to say that Drew sucks, but that it is not correct to look at his career yards and say that tells the whole story. His career W/L record is right around .500 despite having logged 7 out of his 13 years under Hall of Fame coaches.

504394[/snapback]

 

I do see your point. I am not sure when the 16 game schedule took effect either, but this certainly does matter in terms of this conversation.

 

I do feel the need to point out that mileage and horrible, tremendous hits notwithstanding, Drew is relatively young. He is what, 33? I don't think that it is too late for him to do an "Elway" and get better when he is more mature.

 

One more time, I am NOT convinced that getting rid of him was the wrong move (if you can believe this). The Bills OL took care of Drew to the tune of approx. 140 sacks in 3 years. Imagine if McNally (and the benching of Henry) didn't happen???!!! Drew would probably be dead.

My problem is obviously not with Drew, nor even JP. I must quote our own AKC, a guy who is just dead on day after day. TD has built a "fantasy football team."

 

This my friend, is a damned shame.

[ajzepp]

I do see your point. I am not sure when the 16 game schedule took effect either, but this certainly does matter in terms of this conversation.

 

I do feel the need to point out that mileage and horrible, tremendous hits notwithstanding, Drew is relatively young. He is what, 33? I don't think that it is too late for him to do an "Elway" and get better when he is more mature.

 

One more time, I am NOT convinced that getting rid of him was the wrong move (if you can believe this). The Bills OL took care of Drew to the tune of approx. 140 sacks in 3 years. Imagine if McNally (and the benching of Henry) didn't happen???!!! Drew would probably be dead. 

My problem is obviously not with Drew, nor even JP. I must quote our own AKC, a guy who is just dead on day after day. TD has built a "fantasy football team."

 

This my friend, is a damned shame. 

504411[/snapback]

 

must......re..sist........urge....to .........defend...........TD..........

[MadBuffaloDisease]

So, let me see if I have this straight.

 

Buftex thinks the 1996 Patriots were carried "to" the Super Bowl by Bledsoe, and that they had "no" defense, even though they gave up no touchdowns in the two preceding playoff games.

 

 

MBD thinks Bledsoe "carried" the team in the actual Super Bowl, even though he had four interceptions in the game.

 

 

Here's an accurate assessment of that team. You had a well coached overachieving team in New England in 1996 that got a huge break when Mark Brunell played the game of his life and helped upend Denver in Denver. Brunell's was a performance for the ages in that game. The Pats were a playoff team that had a lot of things go their way to get to the Super Bowl. They had a good offense - Coates was in his prime, Martin was really good all year long, and they got some nice contributions from Byers, Meggett and Glenn (set the rookie record for receptions that season). They had probably a better defense, but a lot of the raw talent on it was young (Law, Milloy, Ted Johnson, McGinest, Chris Slade) and Favre, directly in the prime of his Hall-of-Fame career, was not challenged in that final game. Desmond Howard also made a huge play returning a kickoff for a TD, capping his fine, fine season that year. The game landed on the point spread (14) - it was a pretty normal Super Bowl by that standard.

 

Bledsoe had a good season (statistically his best in New England), and threw a lot of passes as he did throughout the Parcells era, but he didn't carry them to the game. He didn't carry them in the game.

 

If you want to give credit to anyone for that run, I think Bill Parcells gets the brunt of it. Charlie Armey also should be recognized for his personnel work - especially his fantastic 1995 draft (Law, Martin, Ted Johnson, and Woulabaugh). Before Johnson started tearing his biceps every training camp, he was one heck of a runstopping linebacker. The two now-Jets speak for themselves, and are both legitimate HOF candidates (with Curtis a surefire lock).

Bledsoe carried that team for most of the regular season as well as the SB. with the defense basically dominating just the 2 playoff games. As you admitted, he had his best statistical season, while Curtis Martin had a pedestrian 1152 yards and the defense was ranked 14th in points allowed (while Brady has never had a defensive unit outside of the top-5 in points allowed in his SB years). And again as I said, in the SB, the defense didn't force a single turnover and gave up several long TD drives and passes, not to mention what Desmond Howard did to their ST's (he might have won the game single-handedly, something which again has NOTHING to do with Bledsoe). And Bledsoe was basically a 1-man show, since the Pats decided to run the ball a mere 12 times, despite Martin gaining 4 YPC. And while Bledsoe threw 4 picks, 2 were in garbage time when the game was basically over, 1 was like a punt, and another led to 3 points. I know it's simple to blame Bledsoe for that loss, but he had ZERO help from his teammates, especially his O-line who allowed Reggie White to sodomize him, via Max Lane.

 

And I also credit that year to Parcells, but Belichick had a hand in improving the defense in creating turnovers (they were tied for 4th in INT's), but his defense failed miserably in the SB and was as much to blame for the loss as the ST's play and the stupid play-calling on offense.

[Bill from NYC]

Drew would have been a much better quarterback in that era.  As good as Fouts?  Not in the mental aspect of the game, but back then it wouldn't have been as apparent.  The zone blitz and increased athleticism on the defensive side of the ball have contributed mightily to exposing the mental part of Drew's game.

504404[/snapback]

 

Good point AD. Drew might not have been as smart as Fouts. Better yet, I would say that imo he was not. Still, I think that Drew had a better arm than Dan; I really do think this.

 

I want to take a time out and thank you, ATBNG, ajzepp, and every other great poster on TBD for threads like this. Naturally, SDS should take a bow.

I am NOT talking about what I write. What I AM saying that there is no other place to go and talk to people like yourselves who really do know the great sport of NFL Football.

 

The list of all star posters on the TSW is long. I would like to nominate a large number of you guys to the "Wall of Fame."

 

Thanks for the dialogue.

[Alaska Darin]

Good point AD. Drew might not have been as smart as Fouts. Better yet, I would say that imo he was not. Still, I think that Drew had a better arm than Dan; I really do think this.

504422[/snapback]

There's no doubt in my mind that Drew has a much stronger arm than Dan Fouts ever did. Fouts was much better short-to-intermediate.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

If Bledsoe had the coaching staff, the ST's, and especially the Pats' defense from the SB-winning years ('01, '03-04) when he was younger, he would have won several SB's. However he hasn't been at that level for quite a while (i.e. being able to sustain it for a whole season).

[PromoTheRobot]

If Bledsoe had the coaching staff, the ST's, and especially the Pats' defense from the SB-winning years ('01, '03-04) when he was younger, he would have won several SB's.  However he hasn't been at that level for quite a while (i.e. being able to sustain it for a whole season).

504433[/snapback]

If Drew Bledsoe needs all that, how good is he really? How many teams win Super Bowls with less-than-perfect rosters? Somehow their QB's manage. Yet Drew gets a mulligan because his team is lacking somehow.

 

PTR

[MadBuffaloDisease]

If Drew Bledsoe needs all that, how good is he really?  How many teams win Super Bowls with less-than-perfect rosters?  Somehow their QB's manage.  Yet Drew gets a mulligan because his team is lacking somehow.

What I was describing was the Pats teams from 3 of the past 4 years, not some "perfect team." Hell give him Tampa Bay's or the Ravens' defenses and he would have won a SB. The point being, he hasn't didn't get a good defensive effort, much less a good ST's effort, in HIS only chance in the SB, and his teams never dominated defensively the way the SB winning teams of the past decade have done.

[ajzepp]

Good point AD. Drew might not have been as smart as Fouts. Better yet, I would say that imo he was not. Still, I think that Drew had a better arm than Dan; I really do think this.

 

I want to take a time out and thank you, ATBNG, ajzepp, and every other great poster on TBD for threads like this. Naturally, SDS should take a bow.

I am NOT talking about what I write. What I AM saying that there is no other place to go and talk to people like yourselves who really do know the great sport of NFL Football.

 

The list of all star posters on the TSW is long. I would like to nominate a large number of you guys to the "Wall of Fame."

 

Thanks for the dialogue.

504422[/snapback]

 

Right on, Bill.....the threads where we can disagree w/out being disagreeable are my personal favorites Long live TBD!

[Pete]

Drew puts up his usual 14 points or less on offense and Dallas' D wins the game- seems like last year(well when we won)

[Buftex]

So, let me see if I have this straight.

 

Buftex thinks the 1996 Patriots were carried "to" the Super Bowl by Bledsoe, and that they had "no" defense, even though they gave up no touchdowns in the two preceding playoff games.

 

 

MBD thinks Bledsoe "carried" the team in the actual Super Bowl, even though he had four interceptions in the game.

 

 

Here's an accurate assessment of that team. You had a well coached overachieving team in New England in 1996 that got a huge break when Mark Brunell played the game of his life and helped upend Denver in Denver. Brunell's was a performance for the ages in that game. The Pats were a playoff team that had a lot of things go their way to get to the Super Bowl. They had a good offense - Coates was in his prime, Martin was really good all year long, and they got some nice contributions from Byers, Meggett and Glenn (set the rookie record for receptions that season). They had probably a better defense, but a lot of the raw talent on it was young (Law, Milloy, Ted Johnson, McGinest, Chris Slade) and Favre, directly in the prime of his Hall-of-Fame career, was not challenged in that final game. Desmond Howard also made a huge play returning a kickoff for a TD, capping his fine, fine season that year. The game landed on the point spread (14) - it was a pretty normal Super Bowl by that standard.

 

Bledsoe had a good season (statistically his best in New England), and threw a lot of passes as he did throughout the Parcells era, but he didn't carry them to the game. He didn't carry them in the game.

 

If you want to give credit to anyone for that run, I think Bill Parcells gets the brunt of it. Charlie Armey also should be recognized for his personnel work - especially his fantastic 1995 draft (Law, Martin, Ted Johnson, and Woulabaugh). Before Johnson started tearing his biceps every training camp, he was one heck of a runstopping linebacker. The two now-Jets speak for themselves, and are both legitimate HOF candidates (with Curtis a surefire lock).

504364[/snapback]

 

Sorry to cause such a ruckus. You are correct that the Pats defense played well in the playoffs that year, but they were pretty mediocre during the regular season, which is what I was referring to. In Parcells book, which he "wrote" upon his first retirement (I read it like 5 or 6 years ago) he said that the Patriots team he took to the Super Bowl was not one that he felt comfortable. He said he was uncomfortable with the fact that he was going to have to rely on Bledsoes' arm as much as he was his defense, which he said had potential, but was very erratic. It caused a lot of friction between the two of them, he felt, because he wanted DB to play more conservative at times. Parcells also put some blame on himself for not verbalizing to Bledsoe, enough, when to turn it on and turn it off...

 

I give Parcells plenty of credit, I just have a hard time discrediting Bledsoe (or any player) when it is not warrented....nothing is ever as simple, cut and dry, as you, I or anyone else here wishes it was....I still feel confident that Bledsoes' play was a major contributing factor to the Pats making the Super Bowl in 1996.