jahbonas Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 Look at the differences here... Patriots Bills 1999 C Woody CB Winfield Butler pick 2000 OT Klemm DE Flowers (linebacker size) Butler pick 2001 DT Seymour CB Clements Donaho begins 2002 TE Graham OT Williams 2003 DT Ty Warren RB Mcgahee 2004 DT Wilfork WR Evans 2005 OT Mankins WR Parrish It speaks to priorities...a 'smash mouth physical' team (like Donahoe loves to say we) are does not draft like the above Lee Evans...a nice player...but we passed on DT Tommie Harris & DT Wilfork & OT Andrews In 2001 TD passed 3 times on DT Sean Rogers of Texas...instead chose a CB, a small defensive end (schobel)...and a smaller back (Henry) In 8 straight drafts the Patriots have drafted physical players along the line of scrimmage...its a constant WE did it twice...and one was Erik Flowers a 240lb Defensive end The game is won in the trenches...its that simple....we have too much money tied up in posiitons away from the ball like safteties and CB's and WR's...
Mark VI Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 Maybe TD thinks drafting smashmouth Wal-Mart door greeters means the same thing.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 Look at the differences here...Patriots Bills 1999 C Woody CB Winfield Butler pick 2000 OT Klemm DE Flowers (linebacker size) Butler pick 2001 DT Seymour CB Clements Donaho begins 2002 TE Graham OT Williams 2003 DT Ty Warren RB Mcgahee 2004 DT Wilfork WR Evans 2005 OT Mankins WR Parrish It speaks to priorities...a 'smash mouth physical' team (like Donahoe loves to say we) are does not draft like the above Lee Evans...a nice player...but we passed on DT Tommie Harris & DT Wilfork & OT Andrews In 2001 TD passed 3 times on DT Sean Rogers of Texas...instead chose a CB, a small defensive end (schobel)...and a smaller back (Henry) In 8 straight drafts the Patriots have drafted physical players along the line of scrimmage...its a constant WE did it twice...and one was Erik Flowers a 240lb Defensive end The game is won in the trenches...its that simple....we have too much money tied up in posiitons away from the ball like safteties and CB's and WR's... 500248[/snapback] Its funny, even when Seymour was healthy, the problem with NE was inside, but also, those little guys were getting burned. Also, The Pats need the Big DE's like Warren and Seymour because they play a 3-4 most of the time. but yeah, TD needs to start drafting some big guys, but it doesnt have to be 1st round, Ide prefer 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th round big men over 1st round big men, atleast on the OL. I have no problem getting skilled players early, as long as we adress the trenches in the middle rounds, and he hasnt done that. Jennings was a Mid ROund guy and Preston is a mid round guy. We need more of these mid rounders on the OL.
obie_wan Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 Look at the differences here...Patriots Bills 1999 C Woody CB Winfield Butler pick 2000 OT Klemm DE Flowers (linebacker size) Butler pick 2001 DT Seymour CB Clements Donaho begins 2002 TE Graham OT Williams 2003 DT Ty Warren RB Mcgahee 2004 DT Wilfork WR Evans 2005 OT Mankins WR Parrish It speaks to priorities...a 'smash mouth physical' team (like Donahoe loves to say we) are does not draft like the above Lee Evans...a nice player...but we passed on DT Tommie Harris & DT Wilfork & OT Andrews In 2001 TD passed 3 times on DT Sean Rogers of Texas...instead chose a CB, a small defensive end (schobel)...and a smaller back (Henry) In 8 straight drafts the Patriots have drafted physical players along the line of scrimmage...its a constant WE did it twice...and one was Erik Flowers a 240lb Defensive end The game is won in the trenches...its that simple....we have too much money tied up in posiitons away from the ball like safteties and CB's and WR's... 500248[/snapback] Bills should have taken Vince Wilfork. would have immediately helped both run defense and pass defense, as well as providing flexibility of playing 3-4
pope zimli Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 Great observation. I remember Lou Saban in his heyday saying he built every successful team from the line back. He was up to his neck in great offensive and defensive linemen. I still think Drew Bledsoe would have been so successful here if they had only looked to the o-line and drafted a good tight end.
Tcali Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 Look at the differences here...Patriots Bills 1999 C Woody CB Winfield Butler pick 2000 OT Klemm DE Flowers (linebacker size) Butler pick 2001 DT Seymour CB Clements Donaho begins 2002 TE Graham OT Williams 2003 DT Ty Warren RB Mcgahee 2004 DT Wilfork WR Evans 2005 OT Mankins WR Parrish It speaks to priorities...a 'smash mouth physical' team (like Donahoe loves to say we) are does not draft like the above Lee Evans...a nice player...but we passed on DT Tommie Harris & DT Wilfork & OT Andrews In 2001 TD passed 3 times on DT Sean Rogers of Texas...instead chose a CB, a small defensive end (schobel)...and a smaller back (Henry) In 8 straight drafts the Patriots have drafted physical players along the line of scrimmage...its a constant WE did it twice...and one was Erik Flowers a 240lb Defensive end The game is won in the trenches...its that simple....we have too much money tied up in posiitons away from the ball like safteties and CB's and WR's... 500248[/snapback] AND..the fact that skill players are easy to get in free agency. stud lineman are not so easy to find.
ganesh Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 AND..the fact that skill players are easy to get in free agency. stud lineman are not so easy to find. 500522[/snapback] Which "skill players" were available in FA for other teams to pick them ? If a player is good, whether he is a lineman, or a QB or a LB, teams are not going to let them go. They will figure out a way to keep them...Look at Seattle and Indy...They are willing to pay 8M+ to James and Alexander by tagging them... What you get in the FA market are players who are not wanted in their system by others or mid-level players.... Before you spring the TKO example, TKO was not wanted by Lewis and Co and TKO wanted out of Cincinnati because he wanted to win.....
1959BillsFan Posted November 12, 2005 Posted November 12, 2005 There is a huge difference between Free Agent linemen and Free Agent "skill position" players. Successful T-E-A-Ms draft o-linemen with the idea of not only developing their talent, but more importantly, developing CHEMISTRY. It takes 5 guys to start on an o-line. The "skill positions" rely mainly on talent, not necessarily chemistry and continuity. O-linemen are drafted to build CONTINUITY as others get old or injured, their familiarity with the system and fellow players let them step in without too much fall off. It is important to keep the good ones and get rid of the bad ones. Most thought that NE reached when they drafted Mankens. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, he is starting as a rookie right next to another rookie LT. The Pats have the idea that they WILL build that continuity and maintain it. Obviously, the Bills have taken a different tact, draft "skill positions", develop them and then loose them to free agency. They band-aide the line with Free Agent cast offs. Really the only Free Agent of value is Villarrial, but he is older and taking injuries. Gandy may be a GREAT pickup, but it still is too early to tell. Bennie........, well that is enough said. Teague, he wasn't able to fit Denver's style so they let him go in free agency. He is an adaquate Center, but outrageously expensive as compared to GREAT centers. Linemen should be drafted consistently to maintain that continuity that TD often speaks of. In the Bills case, they have been drafted, but more as afterthoughts. As someone mentioned, mid rounds is where the consistency should be displayed. That would give the players time to develop under the system.
BB2004 Posted November 12, 2005 Posted November 12, 2005 Look at the differences here...Patriots Bills 1999 C Woody CB Winfield Butler pick 2000 OT Klemm DE Flowers (linebacker size) Butler pick 2001 DT Seymour CB Clements Donaho begins 2002 TE Graham OT Williams 2003 DT Ty Warren RB Mcgahee 2004 DT Wilfork WR Evans 2005 OT Mankins WR Parrish It speaks to priorities...a 'smash mouth physical' team (like Donahoe loves to say we) are does not draft like the above Lee Evans...a nice player...but we passed on DT Tommie Harris & DT Wilfork & OT Andrews In 2001 TD passed 3 times on DT Sean Rogers of Texas...instead chose a CB, a small defensive end (schobel)...and a smaller back (Henry) In 8 straight drafts the Patriots have drafted physical players along the line of scrimmage...its a constant WE did it twice...and one was Erik Flowers a 240lb Defensive end The game is won in the trenches...its that simple....we have too much money tied up in posiitons away from the ball like safteties and CB's and WR's... 500248[/snapback] The only one that disapoints me is Sean Rodgers. I know there were injury concerns about him, but we had several oportunites to get him. Does anyone know if he was picked after Ron Edwards that year?
d_wag Posted November 12, 2005 Posted November 12, 2005 TKO wanted out of Cincinnati because he wanted to win..... 500570[/snapback] oh, the irony.......
jahbonas Posted November 12, 2005 Author Posted November 12, 2005 The only one that disapoints me is Sean Rodgers. I know there were injury concerns about him, but we had several oportunites to get him. Does anyone know if he was picked after Ron Edwards that year? 500811[/snapback] Shaun Rogers was picked late 2nd round after we drafted Schobel & Henry...we then drfated Edwards in rd3 (after Rogers)
colin Posted November 12, 2005 Posted November 12, 2005 QBs and top flight OTs are the only guys who are very rare in FA. CBs are there sometimes, but are always super expensive. the one move that TD made that bugs me now is pat williams, but if he falls off this year or next it wouldn't have been a bad one. i still think all we need is a couple DTs and more consistent play from our O line and of course the anser to the QB question. if edwards and TKO and Milloy didn't get hurt, i think we'd be top 5ish on D and about 12-15 against the run.
Shamrock Posted November 13, 2005 Posted November 13, 2005 Look at the differences here...Patriots Bills 1999 C Woody CB Winfield Butler pick 2000 OT Klemm DE Flowers (linebacker size) Butler pick 2001 DT Seymour CB Clements Donaho begins 2002 TE Graham OT Williams 2003 DT Ty Warren RB Mcgahee 2004 DT Wilfork WR Evans 2005 OT Mankins WR Parrish It speaks to priorities...a 'smash mouth physical' team (like Donahoe loves to say we) are does not draft like the above Lee Evans...a nice player...but we passed on DT Tommie Harris & DT Wilfork & OT Andrews In 2001 TD passed 3 times on DT Sean Rogers of Texas...instead chose a CB, a small defensive end (schobel)...and a smaller back (Henry) In 8 straight drafts the Patriots have drafted physical players along the line of scrimmage...its a constant WE did it twice...and one was Erik Flowers a 240lb Defensive end The game is won in the trenches...its that simple....we have too much money tied up in posiitons away from the ball like safteties and CB's and WR's... 500248[/snapback] I thought the reason why Rogers went late (?) in the 2nd was that he had a. an abkle injury and b. he was considered lazy with his potential. ...don't forget the midget DE of 2000 Corey Moore...
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