OnTheRocks Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 You'd have a great point if it were anywhere close to accurate. Aside from the fact that things like the Golden Rule should be taught at home - long before a kid enters a school. It's not exclusively a Christian teaching, in fact, it's been around longer than there was Christianity. It's a main part of all major religions including, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Confucianism. It was also a major component of Taoism and Zoroastrianism which dates back to 650 BCE. Creationism, as it is being debated via ID, is specific to the Judeo/Christian religion, not a basic tenent of human compassion which also happens to be taught by all of the world's religions. Damn, I knew that Religions of the World class would pay off one day... 503714[/snapback] so you agree that it is a religous teaching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 is any of this Science dumb? Why isn't Creationism allowed to be referred to as Science? My best guess is because you would refer to it as a Biblical teaching. Is it okay then to teach the Golden Rule? Which is also a Biblical teaching? 503684[/snapback] Is that site a joke? For the last freaking time. Creationism is NOT SCIENCE!!!! There is nothing scientific about your bible. Nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Is that site a joke? For the last freaking time. Creationism is NOT SCIENCE!!!! There is nothing scientific about your bible. Nothing. 503720[/snapback] that was a great arguement. i guess that seals it. you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 so you agree that it is a religous teaching? 503719[/snapback] No, I don't. As I said, it's a basic tenent of human compassion which also happens to be taught in all of the world's religions. The Golden Rule stems from Hammurabi's Code, a set of laws that came from the ruler of Babylon: "If a man knock out the teeth of his equal, his teeth shall be knocked out," ie, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 But jesus, how !@#$ed up can the Christian segment of our country be that they can't see this basic stuff? 499147[/snapback] If you want a more secular society/government, I'm sure you could move up to Canada. The United States was founded as a Christian country and continues to be one today. Leave or deal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 If you want a more secular society/government, I'm sure you could move up to Canada. The United States was founded as a Christian country and continues to be one today. Leave or deal... 503734[/snapback] Buckeye....get ready to bang your head against the wall. in 5...4...3...2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 that was a great arguement. i guess that seals it. you win. 503728[/snapback] There's a couple threads on this page, about half way down, that go on and on arguing my position. The people that have the weakest argument are the creationists. We've been through this many times. Creationism is not science, has no basis in actual science, and is based largely on unprovable "facts" consisting mostly of faith and some act of an invisible "devine" hand. There is nothing even remotely close to science in it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Creationism is NOT SCIENCE!!!! There is nothing scientific about your bible. Nothing. 503720[/snapback] Careful here... as a Science teacher I need to inform you that Science is the search for answers. The Bible is in fact that... a road map to find answers for your life... Whether you agree with it or not, it is a search for answers and therefore... science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Buckeye....get ready to bang your head against the wall. in 5...4...3...2... 503738[/snapback] What... is that person from Canada? (Banging head against the wall) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Is that site a joke? For the last freaking time. Creationism is NOT SCIENCE!!!! There is nothing scientific about your bible. Nothing. 503720[/snapback] And... (for all literature teachers), the Bible is a book, and therefore deserves to be capitalized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Careful here... as a Science teacher I need to inform you that Science is the search for answers. The Bible is in fact that... a road map to find answers for your life... Whether you agree with it or not, it is a search for answers and therefore... science. 503750[/snapback] Bullsh-t. The bible is a religious text..a collection of stories and parables based around christian teachings. It is no more a scientific text than a box of cheerios is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 The United States was founded as a Christian country and continues to be one today. Leave or deal... 503734[/snapback] Keep in mind that I consider myself a Christian, but to claim this country was founded as a Christian nation is not entirely accurate. This nation was ofunded by as many Deists as it was by Christians. Remember, merely believing in God does not make a person a Christian. The Bible says that "the fool says in his heart, there is no God." Our founding fathers were certainly not fools. But the Bible also says "You say you believe in God. Good. The demons also believe and tremble." Believing in God is insufficient evidence for demonstrating either Christian principles or that a person is a Christian. To wit: “Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. I had hoped that liberal and enlightened thought would have reconciled the Christians so that their religious fights would not endanger the peace of Society.” - George Washington “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” - John Adams "I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in this particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth" - Thomas Jefferson, author of the Jeffersonian Bible, which is devoid of any miracles or healings and ends with Jesus' burial. "The establishment of a Christian chaplainship to Congress is a palpable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles." - James Madison "As to Jesus of Nazareth, I have some doubts as to his Divinity." - Ben Franklin "Religion, which should most distinguish us from beasts, and ought most particularly to elevate us, as rational creatures, above brutes, is that wherein men often appear most irrational, and more senseless than beasts themselves.” - John Locke "It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible." - Thomas Paine The founding fathers were a reflection of the American population. Having escaped from the state-established religions of Europe, only 7% of the people in the 13 colonies belonged to a church when the Declaration of Independence was signed. Unlike you, I'm a tolerant Christian. I won't implore you to leave the country if you don't like the reality that the US was not founded as a Christian nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 15, 2005 Author Share Posted November 15, 2005 Bullsh-t. The bible is a religious text..a collection of stories and parables based around christian teachings. It is no more a scientific text than a box of cheerios is. 503765[/snapback] Its less scientific than a box of cheerios - the box of cheerios has the amount of calories on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 is any of this Science dumb? Why isn't Creationism allowed to be referred to as Science? My best guess is because you would refer to it as a Biblical teaching. Is it okay then to teach the Golden Rule? Which is also a Biblical teaching? 503684[/snapback] I think it is a great idea to teach that murder is wrong and that isn't effected by the fact that it is in the bible. However, I would object to teaching that murder is wrong in a science class. That holds true on a broad spectrum of moral issues but has nothing to do with the debate here which is about teaching non-science in science class. As for the science in the bible that is correct, I don't think anyone is arguing that such science, like "there a lots of stars", shouldn't be taught simply because it is not only found in science textbooks verified by experiments, etc and is also in the bible. The problem is teaching genesis in a science class. It is not science. Not my opinion, that is the opinion of the National Academy of Sciences and every scientific organization around. It is overwhelming. In fact, even you have stated that you agree that it shouldn't be taught in science class. Do you really believe that or are you just saying that to avoid having to defend a losing argument? I don't understand why you say that and yet unfailingly pop up with posts like this when the subject arises to the contrary. Once and for all, do you think the biblical story of genesis, whether referred to as "creationism" or dressed up as "intelligent design" should or should not be taught in science class as a valid scientific alternative to evolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Careful here... as a Science teacher I need to inform you that Science is the search for answers. The Bible is in fact that... a road map to find answers for your life... Whether you agree with it or not, it is a search for answers and therefore... science. 503750[/snapback] Based on that vague spritual gobbledygook of a definition of science, everything is science. Lets be specific as to what we are talking about here. Do you think that the teachings of the judeo-christian faith, in particular its creation myth/metaphor/fact (depending on your view) should be taught in science classes in a public schools? If so, which ones? If not all such teachings, which shouldn't be and why? What creation myths/facts/metaphors of what other religions should also be taught in science class and which should be excluded and why? Since the search for answers is the key for you, can we require the kids to learn the case for atheism in science class as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Is that site a joke? For the last freaking time. Creationism is NOT SCIENCE!!!! There is nothing scientific about your bible. Nothing. 503720[/snapback] But what was wrong with... The Bible describes biogenesis (the development of living organisms from other living organisms) and the stability of each kind of living organism. What the hell? Wasn't Lysenkoism buried a few decades ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 What the hell? Wasn't Lysenkoism buried a few decades ago? 503827[/snapback] It was. By scientists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Its less scientific than a box of cheerios - the box of cheerios has the amount of calories on it. 503779[/snapback] OoH! I've almost got Cap'n Crunch through the maze...watch out for the pirates...around the school of magical seahorses...I've done it! Praise God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 I just enjoy pointing out the hypocrisies of the left. Racism is OK, so long as it's driected toward whites. Religious bigotry is OK so long as it's driected toward christians. Sexism can be tolerated so long as it's not against women. It's Orwellian double-speak. Say one thing, mean something entirely different. 503544[/snapback] Joe, has the "bigotry of the left" that you speak of affected the social order? Are white people being sent to the back of the bus? More likely to be in prison? Are Christians not being allowed to celebrate Christmas? Is the government going into Christian homes to interrogate people? Are men earning 75% of what women make? I'm sorry, I can't really take the incessant whining of the right on this subject. It's like bitching about how a guy has a king in his hand when you hold all four aces. Call out bigotry and racism in all respects, and I think we'll get to agreeing. We all need to clean the hypocrisy out of our houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 that was a great arguement. i guess that seals it. you win. 503728[/snapback] God Exists How do I know? I was born in a society where every one believes he does and they instilled that now familiar, comfortable belief in me. From the beginning of my own existence I have been drilled in the rituals praising his existence. The only life I have known has been organized and patterened after his exisence from the days of the week to the holiday of the year. When I sneeze, I am met with a chorus of confirmations of his existence by other believers. Before I eat a meal, I have been trained to confirm his existence by praising and thanking him. Before I go to sleep, I am trained to confirm his existence by praising him and by seeking his help. Weekly I gather with other believers to jointly declare and praise his existence. Every milestone in life; birth, marriage and death is marked by a ritual that confirms his existence. Whenever I or anyone else I know of have expressed any doubt as to his existence, such doubt was met by overwhleming anger and retribution from other believers. I have seen how, throughout history, believers have treated doubters. Thus, I dare not doubt. Have I seen him? Not in the wishy-washy sense of "I see his hand in the beauty of every flower, in the magic of a child's laugh" kind of thing. I mean seen him like I see everything else, a real live image. No, I have not seen him. Have I heard him in the same sense that I hear everything else that makes a sound loud enough to be heard given the auditory capabilies of my ears? No, I have not heard him. Have I felt his physical touch the way I feel the touch of everyone else who has ever touched me? No, I have not touched or been touched by him. Have I seen proof of his existence in the customary form "proof" takes in every other field of human endeavor I value? No, I have seen no proof of his existence. Do I believe or have I simply been successfully trained to believe? How would I know the difference? Why do I believe what I cannot see, cannot hear, cannot touch, cannot prove? Faith, I have been taught, is the answer. What is faith? Belief without proof. In every other field of human study, belief without proof is held in disdain yet belief without proof is cherished as the greatest of virtues in relgion. Why do I tolerate this inconsistency? Is it because it is true or is it because I have been trained, taught, rehearsed and immersed in its truth from birth onward? Is a public school really the place to teach me answers to this type of inward questioning or is it perhaps proper to leave science teachers the job of teaching science while my parents, my family and my priest help me with these other questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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