Mr. T Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 I know full well that we haven't been to the playoffs since he arrived, but I also remember this team was a complete mess when he took over. This is the same guy who got Willis here, for the price of, well, Priceless Peerless. He also brought us Spikes, Adams, McGee, Evans, and also was able to keep Moulds here even though he would have gotten a lot more money with other teams. He's made a lot of bold moves, some have been great, some average, a few busts. But he at least he has the nads to make the moves. He also has the nads to not listen to all of us and make moves we all think should be made. Like drafting Joey Harrington, or picking up Drew Henson. He screwed up with Greg Williams, but how many other coachs in the NFL didn't measure up to expectations, a few I imagine. I simply believe that many Bills fans live for each Sunday, expecting the Bills to win, and when they don't a finger has to be pointed at someone to some feel better. I also believe that Jim Kelly and company spoiled us rotten during their "Unbelievable Run" back in the early 90s and many want to see those days return. What isn't realized is those days were something, very, very special. And we and maybe no other teams will see that for quite a long time.
MDH Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 I'm a patient person and I've defended TD for a long time. But at some point the guy has to show results. I don't care how many good to great individuals he's brought here (or kept here). I want to see results on the field, period. It's not a matter of being spoiled by the early 90s teams, it's the fact that we've become one of the worst 5 franchises in the NFL (in terms of winning). I was going to give TD a pass this year because of the struggles that we were bound to encounter while breaking in a young QB. I no longer give him that pass. The guy isn't a bad GM but at the same time he hasn't been getting the job done. At some point it has to be time to move on. Depending on how this season plays out I might be willing to give the guy one more year. However if this team isn't turned around after year 6 of TD then I'm all for moving in another direction.
Guest BackInDaDay Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 I know full well that we haven't been to the playoffs since he arrived, but I also remember this team was a complete mess when he took over. This is the same guy who got Willis here, for the price of, well, Priceless Peerless. He also brought us Spikes, Adams, McGee, Evans, and also was able to keep Moulds here even though he would have gotten a lot more money with other teams. He's made a lot of bold moves, some have been great, some average, a few busts. But he at least he has the nads to make the moves. He also has the nads to not listen to all of us and make moves we all think should be made. Like drafting Joey Harrington, or picking up Drew Henson. He screwed up with Greg Williams, but how many other coachs in the NFL didn't measure up to expectations, a few I imagine. I simply believe that many Bills fans live for each Sunday, expecting the Bills to win, and when they don't a finger has to be pointed at someone to some feel better. I also believe that Jim Kelly and company spoiled us rotten during their "Unbelievable Run" back in the early 90s and many want to see those days return. What isn't realized is those days were something, very, very special. And we and maybe no other teams will see that for quite a long time. 495547[/snapback] I supported him until I came to the conclusion that he was more concerned with making moves for the sake of making moves and less concerned with laying the groundwork for a championship team. By replacing good players in their prime, with good players past their prime and/or youthful prospects, our owner saves money ( Years ago I posted about TD's admission of admiration of the Patriot's 'bargain player' philosophy regarding personnel). If RW really wanted a winner, he wouldn't have hired TD, he would have kept Butler here to sort out the cap probems and rebuild the team. RW wanted what he's always wanted, someone who can keep the fans interested in spending money. This team's been around for 46 years and if Miami had let Ralph use the Orange Bowl we wouldn't be having this discussion. RW saved the old AFL, and he's been very good for the NFL, but if he were truly committed to building a winner in Buffalo, why have his teams lost more than they've won over the course of 46 seasons? I've come to the uncomfortable conclusion that RW and TD have different goals than the fans. So my anger at what I thought was TD's inability to stick to the plan, the fan's plan of building championship teams, was only the result of misunderstanding what 'the plan' has been, this whole time. Bottom line, you're right. It isn't all on TD. He's just doing what he's been hired to do. I'd guess that most of the teams in this league have owners like RW. Content with the status quo - keeping the turnstiles spinning and the concession stand registers humming - but there are those whose owners want more. They may be egotistical SOBs, but their fans benefit on SB Sunday.
/dev/null Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 JP Losman QB Wayne Gandy LT Bennie Anderson LG Trey Teague C Chris Vilarrel RG Mike Williams RT its no wonder the Bills are so anti-TD (a total of 11 in 8 games)
Mr. T Posted November 5, 2005 Author Posted November 5, 2005 JP Losman QBWayne Gandy LT Bennie Anderson LG Trey Teague C Chris Vilarrel RG Mike Williams RT its no wonder the Bills are so anti-TD (a total of 11 in 8 games) 495590[/snapback] Allright, let's respond. JP - Way to early to judge. Gandy - Not a bad pick at all for the price Anderson - Looks like a screw up so far Teague - average Vilarrel - average Williams - inconsistent but that is purposefully looking for the problems, overlooking the positives. Mcgahee - Nuth said Spikes - Nuth said again Adams - Another great pick at a very nice price, a little spotty at times Mcgee - great pick up Evans - Great 1st year, jury out this year Peters - Looks like a real diamond Parrish - Great Potential! All this shows is if your looking for fault or blame, you'll find it. If you're looking for the good it's there also.
krazykat Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 I know full well that we haven't been to the playoffs since he arrived, but I also remember this team was a complete mess when he took over.495547[/snapback] Actually, if you're going to be honest, the team wasn't much different than it is now. Poor lines, a couple of standouts on defense, a few solid WRs, a decent RB situation if only by committee, a good TE, comparable kicker. It gets a little old hearing about how he cut three linemen consuming 20 million in cap space who were all in their 30s and having to hear what a brainy cap cleanup that was. For cryin' out loud, a blind, deaf, and dumb man could have fixed our cap in half an hour when he came on board. Our OL that season, 2000, the year before he came on, was, Carman and Fina at the Ts, Panos or Conaty at C, and Brown and Ostroski at Gs. How the hell is that so much different than the meathead, slob line we have now? Villarrial's at least as old as Ostroski was then. Teague's no better than Panos or Conaty. The rest suck. Defensively we had Henry Jones who was no worse than Milloy. Cowart, Holicek, Newmann, Porter, Pat Williams in his prime. Anyone thinking we're so much better is hallucinating.
Mikie2times Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 GM's can be measured in two ways, one is by how many fans they put in the seats, and two is by how successful the team is. Nobody should question TD's ability to come threw on the first one, but then again most fans are only judging TD by the second one because the teams success is pretty much all we care about. As his supporters are quick two point out he has made some down right brilliant moves as Bills GM, you can't debate the genius of drafting McGahee, or the steal of a draft pick we got in order to draft him in the first place. His tenure is riddled with quality selections, but at the same time he's made these great moves he's made just enough poor decisions to counteract them. We measure area number twp in quantitative results, and why not? Everyday people are held to standards at various professions often not having the luxury of somebody allowing them an extension simply because they did something’s right. You either meet the expectations set or you don't, and TD has not met those expectations. If you count 2003 the Bills rank 28th in the league since TD has been here, if you throw that year out we rank 20th. As the season comes to an end that mark will probably be lower at the end of the year then it even is now. TD likes to call our team inconsistent, and not coincidentally their probably is no better word to describe his tenure as Bills GM. For every right decision, a wrong one follows, but if he keeps fulfilling area one so well his supporters should not be worried, as he will be our GM for a long time. After all area number one is probably more important to Ralph then area number two, that might make some cringe but in the end this is just a business.
San-O Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 I know full well that we haven't been to the playoffs since he arrived, but I also remember this team was a complete mess when he took over. This is the same guy who got Willis here, for the price of, well, Priceless Peerless. He also brought us Spikes, Adams, McGee, Evans, and also was able to keep Moulds here even though he would have gotten a lot more money with other teams. He's made a lot of bold moves, some have been great, some average, a few busts. But he at least he has the nads to make the moves. He also has the nads to not listen to all of us and make moves we all think should be made. Like drafting Joey Harrington, or picking up Drew Henson. He screwed up with Greg Williams, but how many other coachs in the NFL didn't measure up to expectations, a few I imagine. I simply believe that many Bills fans live for each Sunday, expecting the Bills to win, and when they don't a finger has to be pointed at someone to some feel better. I also believe that Jim Kelly and company spoiled us rotten during their "Unbelievable Run" back in the early 90s and many want to see those days return. What isn't realized is those days were something, very, very special. And we and maybe no other teams will see that for quite a long time. 495547[/snapback] I pity the fool who doesn't like Ole' Whitey! Not really.
respk Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 The Bills make the playoffs before TD leaves. Wilson loves him, the staduim is full, the money is rolling in. Most, if not all of his moves were the right ones and done without much questioning. ONly hindsight has shown that some of them may not be so good. Secondly, no one has ever offered up a realistic replacement that would be better. TD stays no matter how loud the fans yell.
colin Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 meh i'm not happy with the moves TD has made (not overall), but he should only be canned if someone better is available. anyone but bledsoe was wrong, anyone but TD is wrong too.
Rico Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 I've never understood this anti TD movement 495547[/snapback] Look at the W-L record, and it's easy to understand. For me, though, it all goes back to the 2003 season. Everything on paper through the 1st 2 games said that this team was a legitimate Super Bowl team, on course & built to win it all within a couple years. Almost all of TD's many moves from 2001 till then looked golden. Then everything blew up in his face. All that hard work for naught, ruined by the most disgusting group of losers to ever wear a Bills uniform. TD was between a rock & a hard place, what to do? Blow the team up again & start over? It took him a little longer than I would've liked, but that's basically what he's done to the O. As it looks right now, there will only be 1 of those gutless losers from the 2003 O on next year's roster, and that's MW. Too bad the D got older in the meantime, & he's going to have to blow that unit up as well. Tough job with some tough breaks, I don't envy him at all.
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 It doesn't matter who TD brought in whether it was Jesus Christ (aka Tedy) ot whoever. All that matters is wins and losses. And quite frankly we have way to many L's and 0 postseason berths. So we can sit here and talk about the moves TDs made or what have you, but the bottom line is it is his job to make the moves necessary to field a winning team and he simply has not done that. Case closed.
Larry Playfair Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 what is the teams record with him as the GM? Isnt that the bottom line?
DC Mom Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 I know full well that we haven't been to the playoffs since he arrived, but I also remember this team was a complete mess when he took over. This is the same guy who got Willis here, for the price of, well, Priceless Peerless. He also brought us Spikes, Adams, McGee, Evans, and also was able to keep Moulds here even though he would have gotten a lot more money with other teams. He's made a lot of bold moves, some have been great, some average, a few busts. But he at least he has the nads to make the moves. He also has the nads to not listen to all of us and make moves we all think should be made. Like drafting Joey Harrington, or picking up Drew Henson. He screwed up with Greg Williams, but how many other coachs in the NFL didn't measure up to expectations, a few I imagine. I simply believe that many Bills fans live for each Sunday, expecting the Bills to win, and when they don't a finger has to be pointed at someone to some feel better. I also believe that Jim Kelly and company spoiled us rotten during their "Unbelievable Run" back in the early 90s and many want to see those days return. What isn't realized is those days were something, very, very special. And we and maybe no other teams will see that for quite a long time. 495547[/snapback] Donahoe has provided the team with good talent at the offensive skill positions at brought in some playmakers on defense. Unfortunately, the game is won and lost on the trenches on the offensive and defensive lines. This is where TD has failed the Bills and this is why we are here where we are today.
buffalo mike Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 Donahoe has provided the team with good talent at the offensive skill positions at brought in some playmakers on defense. Unfortunately, the game is won and lost on the trenches on the offensive and defensive lines. This is where TD has failed the Bills and this is why we are here where we are today. 495820[/snapback] DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
R. Rich Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 I think you all harp on the offensive and defensive lines way too much. They're okay. What's the big deal?
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 I'm not so sure about that. JB was the anti TD. Butler's problem was he was a players type of GM. He could scout talent good but wasn't good at contracts. It seemd he'd give in quicker to get a contract done, but overpay in the process. Yes he could have got the salary cap fixed, but just as quickly got back in trouble again. JB was like an addict who goes to re-hab and comes out clean, but within six months is back to their old habits. I doubt JB could ever resist over paying. If RW really wanted a winner, he wouldn't have hired TD, he would have kept Butler here to sort out the cap probems and rebuild the team. 495584[/snapback]
alg Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 Right on Mr T. TD has been a highly entertaining GM, who has kept us on the edge of our seats with his bold moves. And most important, many of them have panned out. The group of players you listed are part of a long list of guys he has wisely drafted or paid (or not paid.) The man knows his stuff. That he has made some mistakes is only human, and not the fodder for endless whining. The vitriolic chest pounding that is (now) TBD can really were a guy down...
oregonbbfan Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 I was for TD when he came here because Butler got us into cap jail. I now feel TD hasn't got the job done. The name of the game is W's. Get W's and the seats will be filled. He has done just enough to peak fans loyalty each year to continue to fill the stands. In looking over all your analyses it appears he's about average on adding talent. It is difficult to be perfect in all talent decisions. I would review my scout system. Seems they do OK in the D backfield but poorly on the lines, especially D. I also believe he is always trying to do it on the cheap in the free agent market. We got little help this year in the draft this year and FA was poor so essentially, we went backwards this year. In my opinion TD is always trying to find the next new Holmgren. He tried twice now and our record shows it. If he cannot tolerate a strong, experienced coach, then he needs to call it rebuilding and go with youth. He keeps trying to win with too many old players mixed with too little young talent. TD needs to make some major talent infusions though the draft and in free agency. That is not an easy task since players want to play where the endorsements are and they see who is winning or about to win. In conclusion, TD must find a way to bring impact talent by trading, moving UP in the draft to get monster D linemen or FA, getting proven O linemen in FA and getting creative in long term contracts. Review coaching talent and scouting system. Wish we had kept LeBeau. I would give TD one more year to get these areas straightened out. He needs to have a huge off season in the draft and FA and get at least 5-6 games of field time for JP. I think TD knows this too!
Bill from NYC Posted November 5, 2005 Posted November 5, 2005 I think you all harp on the offensive and defensive lines way too much. They're okay. What's the big deal? 495828[/snapback] Thank you. There is nothing wrong with this team that another small speedy wideout wouldn't cure.
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