Realist Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Considering Holcomb just broke the 200 yard barrier by getting about 260 against New England on the road, he's obviously doing something right. I remember a few years back, I kept hearing that Peyton Manning was the more polished QB, but Ryan Leaf had more "upside" because of his stronger arm. It's easy to place too much emphasis on arm strength. 493795[/snapback] you just don't get it, do you? I have this strange feeling that you are a Holcomb groupie and you used to follow him as a Brown, too and used to have these same arguments with people that thought Couch should start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 you just don't get it, do you? I have this strange feeling that you are a Holcomb groupie and you used to follow him as a Brown, too and used to have these same arguments with people that thought Couch should start. 493801[/snapback] i think hes either... a) Kelly himself, or a close relative of his b) one of my friends in our bills backers club who thinks holcomb is God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Jesus! For crying out loud man, your boy Sparky has been in the league for nine years! Nine freaking years! He is what he is. He's not going to improve. He's not going to be anything more than a career backup QB. He's not leading anybody to the playoffs or a superbowl. My god, man. You do know you are talking about about Kelly Holcomb, right? Kelly Holcomb!?!?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 He's not going to be anything more than a career backup QB. 493803[/snapback] I noticed both this statement, and the caption under your avatar. Interesting . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I noticed both this statement, and the caption under your avatar. Interesting . . . 493835[/snapback] Very clever (perhaps I'll change it to "Sparky sucks" just for you), but it doesn't take away from the fact that you are tilting at windmills. You are telling me, that out of all the scouts and player evaluation people that actually get paid to analyze position players in the NFL, that after nine years, you and a select few dreamers have discovered something that no other professional has. No other professional involved in the NFL in nine years. You actually believe that there is an "upside" to keeping Holcomb in there. That is just nuts, man. Nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 You are telling me, that out of all the scouts and player evaluation people that actually get paid to analyze position players in the NFL, that after nine years, you and a select few dreamers have discovered something that no other professional has. 493849[/snapback] The same professionals that let Kurt Warner bag groceries before going on to win Super Bowl MVP honors? The same professionals that let Montana slip to the third round, and Brady to round 6? The same professionals who banished Flutie to the CFL for most of his career? I'm not saying these professionals are wrong all or even most of the time. But clearly they are wrong some of the time. Were they wrong about Holcomb? Let the man play, and we will find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 the scariest thing about Holcomb is that, as you have said, he floats most of his passes. I have yet to see him zip a solid pass anywhere. His passes have a gentle arc, which can be good at time, but other times, i want to see him hit a small seam on a 10 yard crossing for the first down, when the WR is covered. Hes too gun shy because his lack of an arm. 493786[/snapback] A perfect example of people making sh-- up, just to support their argument. Take a look at some of the passes that Holcomb completed to Moulds over the last few weeks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 A perfect example of people making sh-- up, just to support their argument. Take a look at some of the passes that Holcomb completed to Moulds over the last few weeks... 493903[/snapback] I'm not making sh-- up, have you watched the damn games? He rarely puts any zip on any of his passes. Sometimes a touch pass with some loft is necessary, but not every pass. How often does he fire a bullet in there to his WR? Never! He checks down and floats a 3 yard completion. Find me one single time when he's bulleted a pass 12 yards up the middle of the field when there was the slightest bit of coverage on a WR. You wont be able to, because holcomb is too busy checking down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 He rarely puts any zip on any of his passes. 493929[/snapback] In other words, he does put zip on some of his passes. Which means he's capable of putting zip on a pass. I can only speak for myself, but when I'm throwing the football around with people, it's easier for me to catch a soft, touch pass than a bullet. You don't always want your QB to try to take the WR's fingers off with every throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 The same professionals that let Kurt Warner bag groceries before going on to win Super Bowl MVP honors? The same professionals that let Montana slip to the third round, and Brady to round 6? The same professionals who banished Flutie to the CFL for most of his career? I'm not saying these professionals are wrong all or even most of the time. But clearly they are wrong some of the time. Were they wrong about Holcomb? Let the man play, and we will find out. 493891[/snapback] He's a 32 year old, nine year veteran who has started 17 games, and appeared in 30. How has he not had his chance? How has this hidden gem been screwed out of shining on the field? The answer to everyone who isn't in a cult is that he has had his chance, repeatedly, and he's shown that he's just not good enough to be a #1 QB. Somebody call Steve Hassan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 In other words, he does put zip on some of his passes. Which means he's capable of putting zip on a pass. I can only speak for myself, but when I'm throwing the football around with people, it's easier for me to catch a soft, touch pass than a bullet. You don't always want your QB to try to take the WR's fingers off with every throw. 493973[/snapback] If it's easy for you to catch Sparky's "touch pass" ( ), then it's pretty freaking easy for a professional DB to pick him off, too. But that would mean it would have to travel at least 7 yards, and we know there's no chance in hell of that happening. Touch pass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 He's a 32 year old, nine year veteran who has started 17 games. 494000[/snapback] Of his 13 pre-Buffalo starts, two were 400 yard performances. His QB rating while with the Bills is 92.0, good for 7th in the league. With numbers like those, your implication that he embarrassed himself every time he touched the ball is . . . difficult to take seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Of his 13 pre-Buffalo starts, two were 400 yard performances. His QB rating while with the Bills is 92.0, good for 7th in the league. With numbers like those, your implication that he embarrassed himself every time he touched the ball is . . . difficult to take seriously. 494047[/snapback] Who cares if his QB rating is 92. We are still 2-2 under KH and the 2 we won were against bad teams at home, when the coaching staff finally got their S%$# together and utilized McGahee to his potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Who cares if his QB rating is 92. We are still 2-2 under KH and the 2 we won were against bad teams at home, when the coaching staff finally got their S%$# together and utilized McGahee to his potential. 494050[/snapback] In other words, the two wins were the result of the players and coaching staff coming together and doing things right. The two losses were all Holcomb's fault, because everyone else played perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 He's a 32 year old, nine year veteran who has started 17 games, and appeared in 30. How has he not had his chance? How has this hidden gem been screwed out of shining on the field? The answer to everyone who isn't in a cult is that he has had his chance, repeatedly, and he's shown that he's just not good enough to be a #1 QB. Somebody call Steve Hassan. 494000[/snapback] Holcomb bounced around to a few different teams in his career, played in NFL Europe, spent time on practice squads, and was basically a third QB, at best, most of his career, being cut and re-signed depending on team roster needs. He did win the starting job in Clevland, based on performance (it wasn't handed to him, he had to beat out their franchise QB, Tim Couch), and he got injured. He hasn't had the golden boy treatment that some have had. He had 17 starts on very bad teams. He was never annointed the number 1 guy, and given 8 months to prepare to be adequate. What kills me is that you people are acting as though Holcomb was braught in to Buffalo under circumstances like Bledsoe was. He is a journymen, who has played pretty damn well. But all you guys are ganging up on him, because Losman (who has a cult?) was piss poor in his chances, despite the fact that he had everything handed to him. Isn't it entirely possible that Losman might turn out to be good at some point, and Holcomb can be a decent QB too? Does the mind never rebel? Why does it always have to one or the other with Bills fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I remember a few years back, I kept hearing that Peyton Manning was the more polished QB, but Ryan Leaf had more "upside" because of his stronger arm. It's easy to place too much emphasis on arm strength. 493795[/snapback] If you've read my posts you'll realize that I've said that arm strength is not that important in the NFL...in-so-long as the QB in question can make every throw that needs to be made. That means, that he can use the entire field; the sidelines and the middle, both at varying depths. Manning can make all the throws which makes your argument a moot one. As long as a QB can make all the throws the things that separate great QBs from average ones are his decision making abilities and his accuracy. Those things are much more important than arm strength. Can Holcomb make all the throws? Perhaps he can, but in four starts this year I find it odd that I haven't seen him even attempt any of the difficult throws. You're going to find that Holcomb will become less and less effective the more film that opponents have of him. He doesn't challenge the entire field which makes it much easier to defend and much more difficult in the red zone. This is one of the reasons our red zone offense has been so bad. I’ll add that if Holcomb does have the arm strength to challenge the entire field then his decision making isn’t that great. He needs to throw some of those 15-yard outs, even if they are unsuccessful, just to show the opponent that he can challenge that part of the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 In other words, the two wins were the result of the players and coaching staff coming together and doing things right. The two losses were all Holcomb's fault, because everyone else played perfectly. 494055[/snapback] No, I actually believe Holcomb had half way decent games in both, but nothing to write home about. Holcomb's best game was against NE, at least until THE play. If the coaching staff was as dedicated to McGahee when JP was in there, I believe we would have beaten at least the Saints, if not the Falcons also. I'm not arguing that KH isn't the best option to win now. Unfortunately the entire team is doing bad, especially the defense. We are not going to the playoffs, so that is why I am arguing to play JP now. Let him learn. You are the only one that believes KH is our future QB, even Mularkey in his ask the coach forum said that JP will play again this year, he just won't say when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Holcomb bounced around to a few different teams in his career, played in NFL Europe, spent time on practice squads, and was basically a third QB, at best, most of his career, being cut and re-signed depending on team roster needs. He did win the starting job in Clevland, based on performance (it wasn't handed to him, he had to beat out their franchise QB, Tim Couch), and he got injured. He hasn't had the golden boy treatment that some have had. He had 17 starts on very bad teams. He was never annointed the number 1 guy, and given 8 months to prepare to be adequate. What kills me is that you people are acting as though Holcomb was braught in to Buffalo under circumstances like Bledsoe was. He is a journymen, who has played pretty damn well. But all you guys are ganging up on him, because Losman (who has a cult?) was piss poor in his chances, despite the fact that he had everything handed to him. Isn't it entirely possible that Losman might turn out to be good at some point, and Holcomb can be a decent QB too? Does the mind never rebel? Why does it always have to one or the other with Bills fans? 494056[/snapback] Because both QBs can't play on Sunday, unless you're going to remove one mid-game for a "spark." I am not against Holcomb -- as a backup, and like someone else said, it's a shame that this mess overshadows the point that Holcomb is the best backup we've had since Reich. And it's not possible that Losman becomes a good QB without playing. If he has to develop, he is not going to do it on the bench with scout team practice reps. The argument is with the joker who thinks that Holcomb has more upside and is a QB of the future at 33. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 We are not going to the playoffs, so that is why I am arguing to play JP now. Let him learn. 494073[/snapback] I say keep JP off the field until he starts to exhibit the same kind of dominance in practice that Carson Palmer showed his rookie year. When (or if) he's mastered practice, it will then be time to throw him to the wolves. If Losman isn't practicing well by the end of the year, and if the Bills aren't sold on Holcomb, TD might want to take a long, hard look at the QBs available in the first round of this upcoming draft. If there's a way to get out of using yet another first round pick on a QB of the future, I'm all for it. That's why I'm eager for Holcomb to be given a chance. Losman gets his chance too: if he looks dominant in practice in the second half of this season, the Bills should give him next year to prove himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 In other words, the two wins were the result of the players and coaching staff coming together and doing things right. The two losses were all Holcomb's fault, because everyone else played perfectly. 494055[/snapback] Nope...His point was that Holcomb has done nothing to change the way this team plays... I remember your excuse about how our D and Running game showed up against the Falcons and JP screwed everything up....forgetting that our D gave up 230+ yards on offense.... Now against the Pats, we had a 136 yard rusher....controlled the clock for 39 minutes and still came up short.....and the final score due to a fumble by the QB with 4 minutes to go...... Point is KH is a backup and he has been given 17 oppurtunities to start in the NFL and his audition has proved that he will be no more than a backup.. JP has got 4 starts and to keep saying that he cannot win games is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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