Tcali Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 ..2-2 should be 3-1....Provided us with SOME offensive punch....Got Moulds into the games.......OK OK that last play was gayer than elton john's pool boy...but......-lets go a bit easier on the guy.Holcomb is actually an above average QB in a league of awful QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I agree that people here are being a little harsh on Holcomb. Nobody ever thought or said that he was the second coming of Brett Favre, only that he was a better QB than JP Losman, at this point. He did nothing last night to change that truth. Sure he had three or four bad plays, but when was the last time a Bills QB had that few? Actually, I think Holcomb played pretty damn well against the Raiders last week, and very well last night. Some are comparing Holcombs' mobility, or lack thereof, to Drew Bledsoe, but it is not even close. Holcomb was sacked twice last night, and he avoided another 4 or 5 sacks with his ability to move in the pocket. He is not as fast as JP, to be sure, but as Dan Marino proved, you don't have to be fast to be elusive. I can't blame Holcomb for either of the sacks. All of that being said, Losman is the guy who is supposed to have all of the upside. After his first four starts, I have to say, I am a little skeptical. However, I do think the Bills chance at making the playoffs took a major blow last night. Given the toughness of their second half schedule, a playoff run like last year is likely too much to ask. I won't be upset, or wanting to fire everyone at One Bills Drive if they stick with Holcomb for a few games, until their death is official, but I also can buy, now, the logic that it is time to let Losman play so he can either get better, or we can find out if he is the stiff he appeared to be the first 4 weeks of the season. Frankly, from what I saw, I would be thrilled if he turns out to be as good as Holcomb a year from now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I agree that people here are being a little harsh on Holcomb. Nobody ever thought or said that he was the second coming of Brett Favre, only that he was a better QB than JP Holcomb, 492827[/snapback] Now THAT would be scary. A noodle-armed happy footed 1st year starting QB. RTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 For some perspective on the good QB ratings Holcomb's been having with the Bills, look at THIS: http://profootballhof.com/history/release....release_id=1264 Of the 20 QBs with the highest career passer ratings ever, the best was 96.8, number 20 was 83.4. Holcomb has achieved a career passer rating of 80.1, and this year with the Bills his rating is 92.0. (See the following for proof.) http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1624 So I'm having a hard time understanding why so many people insist on handing him that journeyman label when the numbers say he's something more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tomcat Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 He has the weakest arm in history... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 He has the weakest arm in history... 492985[/snapback] A weak arm was the biggest reason why Joe Montana was available in the 3rd round. Anyway, Holcomb's arm looked fine to me when he was throwing that nice long TD pass to Moulds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 For some perspective on the good QB ratings Holcomb's been having with the Bills, look at THIS: http://profootballhof.com/history/release....release_id=1264 Of the 20 passes with the highest career passer ratings ever, the best was 96.8, number 20 was 83.4. Holcomb has achieved a career passer rating of 80.1, and this year with the Bills his rating is 92.0. (See the following for proof.) http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1624 So I'm having a hard time understanding why so many people insist on handing him that journeyman label when the numbers say he's something more. 492980[/snapback] 1) the sideways pass a few weeks ago that went down as a fumble. WTF was that? 2) the 18 yard loss against the raiders, after he had escpaed the initial rush 3) The staring at EM before his pick against NE 4) a 2 yard pass on 4th and 7 5) after 4 weeks with holcomb, we are still the same place we were with JP, 2 games under .500, 3rd in the division 6) he has no mobility 7) the TD pass to moulds basically doubled the amount of times hes thrown downfield 8) we didnt pound Willis when JP was in like we have with holcomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I think I'm being a little hard on him because 3 times in the red zone and we still only get 3 figgies (against the worst Red Zone defense in the league). I just think that JP could have done that too. Holcomb moved the offense pretty well but then stalled when it mattered most. He did make pretty good decisions for most of the game, unfortunately the one bad decision at the end is the one that stands out the most. Because of our remaining schedule, I doubt very much that we are going to the playoffs, we can have 8 almost wins but they'll still count as losses. I say put JP in there and see what he can do from here on out. The NE defense is not that good, the god-like Bruschi didn't make it all that much better. KC's defense is not that good, KH should look decent in that game too, but our D is so bad we will probably still lose. If KH looks decent in that game, when will JP start? The more games he starts this year, the better he will be next year. I think the coaching staff is just stunting his growth now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I think I'm being a little hard on him because 3 times in the red zone and we still only get 3 figgies (against the worst Red Zone defense in the league). I just think that JP could have done that too. Holcomb moved the offense pretty well but then stalled when it mattered most. 492994[/snapback] There were some dropped passes and some other stuff that contributed to those three FGs. I'd like to see better playcalling in the red zone. I'd also like it if our offensive line could develop to the point where it could provide pass protection for more plays like the long TD to Moulds. Last year it seemed like Lee Evans came away with a 40 yard pass play just about every game. We should be going deep to him at least twice a game this year, but for whatever reason we're not. People assume that Losman is our QB of the future, but why do we need a QB of the future when we've got a guy who, at least based on QB rating, is playing like he's one of the best QBs all-time? A guy like that is plenty good enough. Just build around him, invest in the offensive line for crying out loud, retool the defense, and prepare for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 There were some dropped passes and some other stuff that contributed to those three FGs. I'd like to see better playcalling in the red zone. I'd also like it if our offensive line could develop to the point where it could provide pass protection for more plays like the long TD to Moulds. Last year it seemed like Lee Evans came away with a 40 yard pass play just about every game. We should be going deep to him at least twice a game this year, but for whatever reason we're not. People assume that Losman is our QB of the future, but why do we need a QB of the future when we've got a guy who, at least based on QB rating, is playing like he's one of the best QBs all-time? A guy like that is plenty good enough. Just build around him, invest in the offensive line for crying out loud, retool the defense, and prepare for the future. 493000[/snapback] My point exactly, Losman could have produced the 9 points also, for the same reasons. KH's passer rating is very good because rarely does he throw for more than 10 yards, a 10 year vet better complete those short passes. You may argue that JP has had trouble with those same less than 10 yard passes, my point is he can't learn how to put the right touch on those passes in a game situation by sitting on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Some people are being overly hard on the guy because his name is Kelly Holcomb and not JP Losman. There is no doubt that the last pass of the game was a bad decision. Yet, the guy has given the offense a spark. We were in a position to win the game. We didn't. It was a lot more exciting than watching some of the earlier games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 1) the sideways pass a few weeks ago that went down as a fumble. WTF was that? A play which, even if it went down as an incomplete pass, would not have materially affected his QB rating. 2) the 18 yard loss against the raiders, after he had escpaed the initial rush He eluded the initial wave of defenders by moving backwards. Since they were coming from both directions, he couldn't roll out to his left or his right. After having moved backwards he was still inside the tackle box. Merely throwing the ball out of bounds wasn't an option unless he wanted to take the intentional grounding penalty. But immediately after he stopped moving, the second wave of unblocked defenders arrived to make the sack. I find it strange that, on a play in which the Bills' blockers may as well have been on the sideline, the QB is the one who gets all the criticism. 3) The staring at EM before his pick against NE A poor play. Interceptions really hurt your rating. Since Holcomb's rating is so good, that play is clearly not typical of him. 4) a 2 yard pass on 4th and 7 The worst playcall Tom Clements made all game. The throw to Moulds wasn't a good choice, but none of the other options Holcomb had been given would have been good choices either. 5) after 4 weeks with holcomb, we are still the same place we were with JP, 2 games under .500, 3rd in the division That's because this team won't go anywhere until TD stops using all his high draft picks on offensive skill position players, and starts doing something about the offensive line. He also needs to address the defense, especially the defensive line. 6) he has no mobility Neither does Tom Brady. 7) the TD pass to moulds basically doubled the amount of times hes thrown downfield Blame the playcalling and the offensive line for not providing the time needed for a player like Evans to get open deep. 8) we didnt pound Willis when JP was in like we have with holcomb 492988[/snapback] And this is a criticism of Holcomb because . . . ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 There were some dropped passes and some other stuff that contributed to those three FGs. I'd like to see better playcalling in the red zone. I'd also like it if our offensive line could develop to the point where it could provide pass protection for more plays like the long TD to Moulds. Last year it seemed like Lee Evans came away with a 40 yard pass play just about every game. We should be going deep to him at least twice a game this year, but for whatever reason we're not. People assume that Losman is our QB of the future, but why do we need a QB of the future when we've got a guy who, at least based on QB rating, is playing like he's one of the best QBs all-time? A guy like that is plenty good enough. Just build around him, invest in the offensive line for crying out loud, retool the defense, and prepare for the future. 493000[/snapback] QB ratings = RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 KH's passer rating is very good because rarely does he throw for more than 10 yards. 493007[/snapback] Joe Montana also focused on throwing short to intermediate passes. Maybe he was just a journeyman quick fix too, something to get the 49ers by until their QB of the future was ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Joe Montana also focused on throwing short to intermediate passes. Maybe he was just a journeyman quick fix too, something to get the 49ers by until their QB of the future was ready. 493016[/snapback] Alright, that was one Kelly Holcomb - Joe Montana comparison too many. Do you honestly think Holcomb is even worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Joe Montana? It would've been a cold day in hell before Joe Montana, perhaps the greatest quarterback ever at just finding ways to win, would give up on 4th and 7 and throw a two yard out to a triple covered receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Alright, that was one Kelly Holcomb - Joe Montana comparison too many. Do you honestly think Holcomb is even worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Joe Montana? It would've been a cold day in hell before Joe Montana, perhaps the greatest quarterback ever at just finding ways to win, would give up on 4th and 7 and throw a two yard out to a triple covered receiver. 493020[/snapback] How dare you sully the good name of Kelly Holcomb, our quarterback of the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2004 Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 ..2-2 should be 3-1....Provided us with SOME offensive punch....Got Moulds into the games.......OK OK that last play was gayer than elton john's pool boy...but......-lets go a bit easier on the guy.Holcomb is actually an above average QB in a league of awful QBs. 492822[/snapback] He's a very good backup quarterback. He gives the team a chance to win. That's what he has proven. I'm not sure why he doesn't throw the ball longer than 20 yards other than maybe twice a game, but maybe that's the play calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Basically, Jim Kelly called him a nutless wonder yesterday. He said this was his chance to be a starting QB, but starting QB's DON'T make that decision on 4th down. He also hinted at the fact JP should be the starter. I'll take his Hall of Fame opinion, over someone who sniffs Holcomb's nads on a daily basis. Argument over. Oh yeah, please don't compare KH to Joe Montana ever again. I nearly lost my lunch. Also, apparently TD hinted a switch would be coming soon, on his 97Rock show yesterday. I feel better already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I'm not sure why he doesn't throw the ball longer than 20 yards other than maybe twice a game, but maybe that's the play calling. 493048[/snapback] Inconsistent protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 ..2-2 should be 3-1....Provided us with SOME offensive punch....Got Moulds into the games.......OK OK that last play was gayer than elton john's pool boy...but......-lets go a bit easier on the guy.Holcomb is actually an above average QB in a league of awful QBs. 492822[/snapback] did he LEAD us down the field to a win , NO. when he can do that and win us games on his arm i will say he is a good QB till then just another average QB . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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