Spend cap on the Lines

[jahbonas]

Anyone who thinks we should now pay Clements on top of Mcghee is out of their mind. TD is building a perfect LOSER with a Donut....all the money spent on psoitions away from the ball (safteies & corners...& Wr's) while ignoring where the game is won and lost OG, Center,DT's....

We see it does us ZEROOOOOOOOOOOOO to have Lee Evans and Moulds if the line cannot protect.......and its does us ZEROOOOOOOO to have Milloy & Vincent if they run the ball right down our throats !!!

Dump a Milloy or Moulds or Vincent and bring in some linch bucket Guards & centers and Defensive tackles

 

Its not much more complicated than that.....

[AJ1]

Actually, he has created a black hole at OBD. The players, the coaches, and the fans are all swirling around a center of destruction. All who can't pass through a gap the size of a quarter are doomed. Hope has no chance until the chief architect of disaster is removed. Planning for the future is useless unless the future destroyer is removed from the scene. The franchise must be killed to save it from this era of Donahoean captivity. There really is no other way out.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

Actually, he has created a black hole at OBD.  The players, the coaches, and  the fans are all swirling around a center of destruction.  All who can't pass through a gap the size of a quarter are doomed.  Hope has no chance until the chief architect of disaster is removed.  Planning for the future is useless unless the future destroyer is removed from the scene.  The franchise must be killed to save it from this era of Donahoean captivity.  There really is no other way out.

489163[/snapback]

 

Will a Vulcan Mind-meld help? I can almost hear the cellos.

[BB2004]

Anyone who thinks we should now pay Clements on top of Mcghee is out of their mind.  TD is building a perfect LOSER with a Donut....all the money spent on psoitions away from the ball (safteies & corners...& Wr's) while ignoring where the game is won and lost OG, Center,DT's....

We see it does us ZEROOOOOOOOOOOOO to have Lee Evans and Moulds if the line cannot protect.......and its does us ZEROOOOOOOO to have Milloy & Vincent if they run the ball right down our throats !!!

Dump a Milloy or Moulds or Vincent and bring in some linch bucket Guards & centers and Defensive tackles

 

Its not much more complicated than that.....

489121[/snapback]

 

That's just about sums it up. But McGee is a good young player so I don't have a problem with that whatsoever. He's an outstanding KR.

[Zona]

I just wish we could find good young players either in the draft, or as FA's. I am SO tired of signing others teams rejects that have been out of the league, or were waived. I want guys that other teams WANT! Not the Rejects...

 

Until we shore up the O-line, we wont get anywhere near the Playoffs.

[Rico]

But TD has spent $$$ on the OL

 

From Clumpy's Salary Cap Page

 

Starting OL (2005 Cap Hit):

Mike Gandy ($1M)

Bennie Anderson ($1M)

Trey Teague ($3.3M)

Chris Villarial ($3M)

Mike Williams($7.8M)

 

Total Cap Hit, Starting OL = $16.1M

Total Possible Cap, Team = $85.7M

 

19% of possible cap $$$ spent on the 5 starting OL.

[finknottle]

But TD has spent $$$ on the OL

 

From Clumpy's Salary Cap Page

 

Starting OL (2005 Cap Hit):

Mike Gandy ($1M)

Bennie Anderson ($1M)

Trey Teague ($3.3M)

Chris Villarial ($3M)

Mike Williams($7.8M)

 

Total Cap Hit, Starting OL = $16.1M

Total Possible Cap, Team = $85.7M

 

19% of possible cap $$$ spent on the 5 starting OL.

489313[/snapback]

 

I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.

[San-O]

I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.

489338[/snapback]

 

Cry, very hard and long. It helps to cleanse the soul.

 

TD is a clown with good hair! White hair.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

But TD has spent $$$ on the OL

 

From Clumpy's Salary Cap Page

 

Starting OL (2005 Cap Hit):

Mike Gandy ($1M)

Bennie Anderson ($1M)

Trey Teague ($3.3M)

Chris Villarial ($3M)

Mike Williams($7.8M)

 

Total Cap Hit, Starting OL = $16.1M

Total Possible Cap, Team = $85.7M

 

19% of possible cap $$$ spent on the 5 starting OL.

489313[/snapback]

 

Thank you for introducing a bit of reality into folks fact-free opinions that TD has given little attention and spent little of our resources (particularly draft resources) on the OL

 

Tis view simply does not correspond with reality.

 

The focus is somewhat skewed in terms of allocating cap $ or draft picks to OL choices because their are 5 OL positions and only 1 TE or 1 QB on the field at a time.

 

However, even taking this calculus into account, the highest % salary allocation should be to the OL and even with the skew of QBs being more marketable (and thus getting more $ and one of our best paid players being Moulds and a first round choice of Evans also ratchets up the allocation to the WR position, it appears to me (I did not run the numbers so my sense is easily controverted by someone taking the time to do this) that OL is the largest raw dollar amount allocation by TD.

 

Of the 40 or so draft picks made in TD's reign. OL is the only position where he has allocated a draft pick each and every draft (he missed picking a WR and a DL player in 1 of his 5 drafts and has skipped other positions in multiple drafts).

 

TD has also tended toward making early pick selections on the OL with the highest being his allocation of the best pick we ever had under him had (a #4 overall) to the OL. There is an argument to be made that having made 1st day picks at WR 3 times and 1st day OL picks twice (Preston was our 3rd pick this year but our 3rd pick was a 4th rounder) but obviously the dynamic of taking the best player available versus need always exists and OL still clearly gets more attention in the draft than otherkey positions like LB, RB or DB.

 

Its is a much clearer rap on the TD reign to say not that he does not care or has not devoted enough effort and resources to OL, but that the work and leadership he hire there failed miserably early in.

 

There is an obvious case to be made that when comparing the Bills OL glory years under Kent Hull's leadership that the final years under Butler saw actually poor allocation of resources to the OL versus over allocation and spending at QB as the team tried desperately from relying of Jim Kelly lasting several more years than when he was forced into retirement because he was no longer effective (I assume that since Ralph made a handshake deal with him to reward him in his next contract the thought was they were going to be able a Testaverde like career out of him).

 

Butler reacted to this error and series of QB miscalculations by taking dubious football steps like:

 

1. The drafting of Collins a year later than they should have acquired the next Jim Kelly and then not only reaching a little for him (many pundits has him lower than the 2nd used on him, but this needed training kid was rushed into starting when he clearly had a happy feet issue that maybe never could have been trained out of him, but we did not even take the time to try before demanding a Kelly level performance out of him.

 

2. One needs to look to the Ryan Leaf/Akili Smith misses to find an allocation of resource to a QB (merely a third rather than a 1st) who delivered absolutely nothing to a team as Billy Joe Hobert. This disaster is in some ways even less forgivable than the drafting errors and Hobert was a member of this league already and the barest of due diligence should have given some signal that this idiot would simply choose to fail to do his job and getted canned. Folks like Ware ir Todd Collins simply did not have the physical ability to make the transfer from college success to the pro game, but the Bills shoulda/coulda had access to more than the Wonderlic or interviews to identiy Leaf as an idiot in doing due diligence on Hobert who we simply gave away a 3rd for.

 

3. Butler completely overallocated to QB in stupidly signing a contract with Flutie which rolled his acieved bonuses into his new base pay and then created a disaster waiting happen by irrevocably signing a big bonus with RJ which guaranteed $ regardless of performance and then when he continued a history of injury proneness he exhibited in Jax and Flutie performed like we wanted him to and achieved his bonuses we had $10 million locked at QB the next year which forced us to sign DF long-term.

 

OL was one of the places which took it in the shorts (that why I spend so much time laying out my QB rant) as the team was forced to sign an above market deal with Ruben Brown when they refused to guarantee Ziegler a role at C and he fllew the coop for NYF which gave him the same amount but the starting C role. Brown had not found a market for his services at the dollars he demanded around the league, but we were desperate and he played us (he was the only G in the top ten cap hits until we cut him).

 

Irionically it proved to be a good thing we did overpay him because even in TD's second year here Brown was the only player on OL wo started in his position before in the NFL. In retrospect it appears that the teams productivity in 2002 (Bledsoe's first and only very good year for the Bills (3 O players made the Pro Bowl and PP was left off despite 94 catches).

 

Despite the good O and OL performances with the running game and Bledsoe throwing the ball all over the place, the failings of the OL led to huge number of sacks on the less than mobile Bledsoe and Vinky losing his job as OL position coach. The reign or error was allowed to continue as Vinky got replace by the inexperienced Ruel.

 

TD deserves a great deal of blame for the GW hire and allowing him to bollicks up the OL which was already in bad shape under Butler;s management.

 

However, i think the facts are simply not there for folks who say that TD did little or nothing.

 

1. Clearly he has devoted substantial cap room to the OL as Rico's stats show.

 

2. Clearly he has devoted continuous draft resources to the OL as it is the only position which has gotten a player in each and every draft including allocation of the #4 pick to Williams (there are just different indictments sying he tried and failed- regrettable but forgivable and he did not even try which is not even forgivable).

 

3. Clearly he has changed his MO getting JMac to replace Vinky/Ruel and clearly he brought a huge retinue of resources to camp for JMac. Ironically, it has been the great identified shortcoming of talent at LT which has worked out like JMac guidance should where here is little comparison between the OK performance Gandy has produced versus the alternative of overpaying JJ. The problems have been Anderson not producing at all at the level of compensation he recieve, injury issues making RT an adventure and slating MW for being a bust after his mental implosion last year followed by a physical implosion this year and his bak-up Jerman also going down. Add to this Villarial may be hitting the wall and though JMac really did a good job getting something out of nothing last year, this year's effort has not paid off.

 

However, it is clear from the numbers that the effort is there it simply has not worked and while suggestions of what to do instead are justified big time, the complaints of many that TD simply does not care or more $ should be tossed at the situation is reduced to simple whining by the facts.

[seq004]

Cry, very hard and long.  It helps to cleanse the soul.

 

TD is a clown with good hair!  White hair.

489344[/snapback]

[Orton's Arm]

Thank you for introducing a bit of reality into folks fact-free opinions that TD has given little attention and spent little of our resources (particularly draft resources) on the OL

 

Tis view simply does not correspond with reality.

489370[/snapback]

Yes it does. TD has had five drafts with the Bills: 2001 - 2005. In those five drafts, he started with a total of 15 first-day picks. He has allocated precisely two of those fifteen first-day picks to the offensive line (that's 13%). Of the starters on your team, five out of 22, or 23%, are offensive linemen. When you're allocating 13% of your first-day picks to an area that represents 23% of your total starters, you're neglecting it.

 

Of that 13%, the half embodied by Jonas Jennings is no longer with the team. I realize San Francisco paid him way too much, and I'm not questioning TD's decision not to match their offer. But if you're letting your left tackle walk, you should be spending that many more first day choices on the line.

[Rico]

the highest % salary allocation should be to the OL

489370[/snapback]

I disagee with that, FFS. If my D is running a 4-3, I would attempt (if possible) to allocate the highest salary % to the DL.

 

TD fugged himself with that MW contract, and then proceeded to make things worse after the 2003 season by extending Teague.(IMO every O player from that most disgraceful season should've been dumped save TH at the time and the injured Moulds) If he would've cut ties with TT back then, there'd be $8.3M to spend on the other 4 starting OL spots (matching the current $16.1M allocation). Throw in another $4M dead cap space from his other brutal mistake (extending Drew) and he could've spent an average of just over $3M each for 4 replacements (which he did with Chris V, too bad he's starting to look old).

 

Easier said than done, and hindsight is 20/20, but he definitely messed up this situation. How much is his fault, how much is JMac's fault... no one knows.

[Dan Gross]

Yes it does. TD has had five drafts with the Bills: 2001 - 2005. In those five drafts, he started with a total of 15 first-day picks. He has allocated precisely two of those fifteen first-day picks to the offensive line (that's 13%). Of the starters on your team, five out of 22, or 23%, are offensive linemen. When you're allocating 13% of your first-day picks to an area that represents 23% of your total starters, you're neglecting it.

 

489393[/snapback]

 

Okay, then the Patriots have been neglecting their offensive line as well. 2 out of 14 in the last five years...Both those two are starting, with two of their starters players that were UDFAs, one was a second day pick.

The Atlanta Falcons starting line's top pick is a fifth rounder...

[In space no one can hear]

Actually, he has created a black hole at OBD.  The players, the coaches, and  the fans are all swirling around a center of destruction.  All who can't pass through a gap the size of a quarter are doomed.  Hope has no chance until the chief architect of disaster is removed.  Planning for the future is useless unless the future destroyer is removed from the scene.  The franchise must be killed to save it from this era of Donahoean captivity.  There really is no other way out.

489163[/snapback]

 

Gee....I haven't read 10,000 posts like your in the last month?!

 

Or have I?

 

Doh....

[In space no one can hear]

But TD has spent $$$ on the OL

 

From Clumpy's Salary Cap Page

 

Starting OL (2005 Cap Hit):

Mike Gandy ($1M)

Bennie Anderson ($1M)

Trey Teague ($3.3M)

Chris Villarial ($3M)

Mike Williams($7.8M)

 

Total Cap Hit, Starting OL = $16.1M

Total Possible Cap, Team = $85.7M

 

19% of possible cap $$$ spent on the 5 starting OL.

489313[/snapback]

 

 

Thanks for the post!!!

Thus, the moral of the story is not that he hasn't try to build an ol-

he has just done it very poorly!

[jester43]

But TD has spent $$$ on the OL

 

From Clumpy's Salary Cap Page

 

Starting OL (2005 Cap Hit):

Mike Gandy ($1M)

Bennie Anderson ($1M)

Trey Teague ($3.3M)

Chris Villarial ($3M)

Mike Williams($7.8M)

 

Total Cap Hit, Starting OL = $16.1M

Total Possible Cap, Team = $85.7M

 

19% of possible cap $$$ spent on the 5 starting OL.

489313[/snapback]

 

 

i look at that list and i have to laugh my ass off at the fact that GANDY is the only guy on that line who is earning his salary .

 

 

 

 

 

actually, i am only laughing because there is no "sobbing uncontrollably" smiley.

[jester43]

Okay, then the Patriots have been neglecting their offensive line as well.  2 out of 14 in the last five years...Both those two are starting, with two of their starters players that were UDFAs, one was a second day pick.

The Atlanta Falcons starting line's top pick is a fifth rounder...

489407[/snapback]

 

good point. the salaries per se are not the problem. the problem is that donohoe can't stock a roster for any amount of money. he's really good at cutting guys we can't afford. he's proven this repeatedly over the past 5 years. but he is not capable of replacing them with enough good players to turn this franchiseinto a winner. that's why we're screwed till he gets fired.

[drnykterstein]

Just want to say, I agree a lot with the original poster. I don't care how "exctiting" Mcgee is, he can't win a game all by himself.

[Ramius]

TD fugged himself with that MW contract,

489398[/snapback]

 

how can you say this? MW may be overpaid for the way he's played, but he was the #4 overall pick...you cant exactly negotiate with a player taken there. They are slotted and thats what you pay them. No choice really.

[justnzane]

good point.  the salaries per se are not the problem.  the problem is that donohoe can't stock a roster for any amount of money.  he's really good at cutting guys we can't afford.  he's proven this repeatedly over the past 5 years.  but he is not capable of replacing them with enough good players to turn this franchiseinto a winner.  that's why we're screwed till he gets fired.

489411[/snapback]

 

jester, i know that you know a bunch about bringin in athletes to a team, but i have to disagree a little bit. I have to say that TD was right w/ winfield and replacing him with McGee and to a lesser degree Posey for Eddie Robinson. The fact of the matter is that the Bills are overpaying certain players ie) Teague and the safeties(two of the highest at their positions). Also, with some very high salaries on the starters, the depth of the team has been compromised. Thus , this creates problems when injuries occur and we are left to watch an overmatched player get run over like jerman or bannan.

 

By the way how does your team look for this year?