Buffalo Getting Old, Besides Being Bad.

[San-O]

This team is getting old very fast. This year is most likely over, and this team

clearly not getting any better.

 

All players listed are starters, (Shelton ?), and I count ten.

 

In order of last name:

 

95 Adams, Sam DT 6-4 335 32 12 Texas A&M

59 Fletcher, London LB 5-10 245 30 8 John Carroll

10 Holcomb, Kelly QB 6-2 212 32 9 Middle Tennessee State

36 Milloy, Lawyer S 6-0 190 31 10 Washington

80 Moulds, Eric WR 6-2 210 32 10 Mississippi State

96 Posey, Jeff LB 6-4 241 30 8 Southern Mississippi

31 Shelton, Daimon FB 6-0 262 33 8 Sacramento State

70 Teague, Trey OL 6-5 300 30 8 Tennessee

58 Villarrial, Chris OL 6-3 318 32 10 Indiana(Pa)

23 Vincent, Troy S 6-1 200 34 14 Wisconsin

 

Now what?

[BeantownRob]

I agree. Another three years of mediocrity.

[Blue Chipper]

atleast three of those players wont be on the Bills roster next season. See we are getting younger already.

[smokinandjokin]

Now what?

488552[/snapback]

 

Now, they all move to Boca Raton, buy Cadillacs, drive real slow, eat dinner at 3pm, B word about politics, watch Jeopardy, and in bed by 8pm.

[KOKBILLS]

atleast three of those players wont be on the Bills roster next season. See we are getting younger already.

488568[/snapback]

 

 

I've got a feeling it will be a lot more than 3...I think the Bills will make a legit effort to keep Fletcher...And maybe Moulds cause I really don't think #80 wants to go anywhere else...I think Sam Adams can still be effective IF he has a REAL good DT lining up next to him...The rest of the list though...I kinda doubt any of them will be back...Who knows with TD though...

[San-O]

I've got a feeling it will be a lot more than 3...I think the Bills will make a legit effort to keep Fletcher...And maybe Moulds cause I really don't think #80 wants to go anywhere else...I think Sam Adams can still be effective IF he has a REAL good DT lining up next to him...The rest of the list though...I kinda doubt any of them will be back...Who knows with TD though...

488581[/snapback]

 

 

OK> So when do we start "not" calling it a rebuild?

[ganesh]

I've got a feeling it will be a lot more than 3...I think the Bills will make a legit effort to keep Fletcher...And maybe Moulds cause I really don't think #80 wants to go anywhere else...

488581[/snapback]

 

 

Don't bet on that...He will probably get a 2nd WR spot opposite Terell

Owens catchign npasses from McNabb (and dropping quite a few too).

[CentralVaBills]

This team is getting old very fast.  This year is most likely over, and this team

clearly not getting any better. 

 

All players listed are starters, (Shelton ?), and I count ten.

 

In order of last name:

 

95 Adams, Sam DT 6-4 335 32 12 Texas A&M

59 Fletcher, London LB 5-10 245 30 8 John Carroll

10 Holcomb, Kelly QB 6-2 212 32 9 Middle Tennessee State

36 Milloy, Lawyer S 6-0 190 31 10 Washington

80 Moulds, Eric WR 6-2 210 32 10 Mississippi State

96 Posey, Jeff LB 6-4 241 30 8 Southern Mississippi

31 Shelton, Daimon FB 6-0 262 33 8 Sacramento State

70 Teague, Trey OL 6-5 300 30 8 Tennessee

58 Villarrial, Chris OL 6-3 318 32 10 Indiana(Pa)

23 Vincent, Troy S 6-1 200 34 14 Wisconsin

 

 

 

Now what?

488552[/snapback]

 

You aren't allowed to say this on this board. This is like throwing chum off the back of the boat for sharks, only they are called homers on this board.

 

You'll see, it's only a matter of time before you'll have people telling you how these guys are about to hit their prime, OR about to enjoy more pro bowl success.

 

Yeah, TD has done a marvelous job.

[Stussy109]

I'm going to venture out and guess that we have the highest paid starting safeties in the league. Vincent is getting top tier corner pay, whereas Milloy is getting top tier Strong Saftey Pay. With both of our corners requiring extensions & big money, The safety position will have less money allocated to them. Either Vincent or Milloy gets shipped out or major paycut.

[bills_fan]

All players listed are starters, (Shelton ?), and I count ten.

 

In order of last name:

 

95 Adams, Sam DT 6-4 335 32 12 Texas A&M

59 Fletcher, London LB 5-10 245 30 8 John Carroll

10 Holcomb, Kelly QB 6-2 212 32 9 Middle Tennessee State

36 Milloy, Lawyer S 6-0 190 31 10 Washington

80 Moulds, Eric WR 6-2 210 32 10 Mississippi State

96 Posey, Jeff LB 6-4 241 30 8 Southern Mississippi

31 Shelton, Daimon FB 6-0 262 33 8 Sacramento State

70 Teague, Trey OL 6-5 300 30 8 Tennessee

58 Villarrial, Chris OL 6-3 318 32 10 Indiana(Pa)

23 Vincent, Troy S 6-1 200 34 14 Wisconsin

 

 

Now what?

 

Its not as bad as you think....the only ones on the list that really matter are Adams, Fletcher, the safeties and Villarial. I think those 5 have a few more good years in them, before they will need to be replaced. I could see the 06 draft being heavy on LBs and S's. The big one in the mix, both literally and figuratively, is Adams.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

OK>  So when do we start "not" calling it a rebuild?

488587[/snapback]

 

The nature of the beast in the NFL is that the best teams are always rebuilding and finding ways to replace the old guard with youth.

 

The key question is not merely whether folks are old but whether we have younger credible replacements in place when the falter due to age or the injuries that can wipe out the season of a player in his prime like TKO.

 

Looking at your list this what I see from no prob to I'm really worried:

 

Adams- Anderson is getting valuable experience but shows little signs of being a Pro Bowler so any answers here will likely come from getting an FA such as Adams, Phat Pat. or a Corey Simon. I'm not worried because clearly this can be done and we have real world experience of this happening to the Bills from players judged to be rejects by others.

 

Fletcher- LB (and calling D signals for everyone) strikes me as a tougher find than a DT. Crowell has shown some positive signs on ST and when this highly regarded draftee has been thrown into starting by the TKO injury. Is he Fletcher's equal now? No, not by a lomgshot. Might he be one day? Probably not but maybe and we will see.

 

Holcomb- Kely H is not the answer. The question is whether JP is. He isn't rightnow certainly but it is way too early to declare him a bust or to give up on him so QB is a concern but not a worry.

 

Milloy- I think this is the biggest problem area for us as far as age because though Milloy has been one of the great SSs in hios career, I'm afraid after he missed significant time to injury last year and has been slowed by his injured wrist this year and his current play is simply not good enough he may already be done due to age. The bad news for the Bills is that his back-up Coy Wire still is learning the safety position and is not capable of getting the SS job done. Reloading (actually loading) at SS is our #1 priority that I see.

 

Moulds- This is no prob with Evans behind him. The bigger question to me for the long-term is can Parrish be a #2 WR. I think they can.

 

Posey- He is a scheme player and I think can be replaced by someone else who fits into the scheme. If TKO coes back to form next year, I hope Crowell can challenges and surpass Posey.

 

Shelton- He is not remotely the Gash/Centers quality player we expect here. He has dropped enough key passes and blocked inconsistently enough I think we need a new answer here.

 

Teague- He is a player who has been hurt (ACL with Denver and missed a few starts last year) but in each case he came back from theinjury and imprioved his performance. Given the longevity of the most resilient of OL players and given his ability to play multiple positions his age is not a worry for me at all. Given that Preston looks pretty good as our C of the future I see few issues here.

 

Villarrial- A solid consistent player but recurring nicks that cost us the last two years makes him an issue. We may well see Preston at RG until Teague is done at C.

 

Vincent - I love him as an episodic back-up at CB and using him and his great ballhawking skills at FS is a good way to get value from him while he back-up our Pro Bowl CBs though McGee got this plaudit from KR0 but his age underscores the Milloy situation making safety a concern and worry. Baker is a UDFA who was part of a productive D last year but he is a UDFA who is part of an unproductive D this year and does not appear to be a difference maker. I like Leonhard more as someone we may train to take a shot at stepping up at SS because he is such a great hitter, but safety is a question.

 

Thus, for the 10 players you name, I think we have potential "rebuilding" answers already on the roster for 6 of them.

 

Of the remaining 4, safety is my outstanding worry and concern and the experience has been that DT help can be acquired through FA if draft pick Anderson does not work out (I do not see him replacing Adams with Pro Bowl quality play. Folks are not willing to pay the best FBs (this is how we got Gash and Centers and the Bills need to shop here as well.

 

The age problem is always a problem, but we seem to be set-up to deal with these issues.

[San-O]

You aren't allowed to say this on this board.  This is like throwing chum off the back of the boat for sharks, only they are called homers on this board.

 

You'll see, it's only a matter of time before you'll have people telling you how these guys are about to hit their prime, OR about to enjoy more pro bowl success.

 

Yeah, TD has done a marvelous job.

488627[/snapback]

 

 

Yeah, I know, however MOST of those guys are piping up any more that we are

well into the season. This was really meant to be a serious post/question for

the most part, are looking for answers, as should Ole' Whitey.

 

 

You'll see, it's only a matter of time before you'll have people telling you how these guys are about to hit their prime, OR about to enjoy more pro bowl success. or, how everything is really OK. See post # 11.

[CentralVaBills]

Yeah, I know, however MOST of those guys are piping up any more that we are

well into the season.  This was really meant to be a serious post/question for

the most part, are looking for answers, as should Ole' Whitey.

You'll see, it's only a matter of time before you'll have people telling you how these guys are about to hit their prime, OR about to enjoy more pro bowl success.  or, how everything is really OK.  See post # 11.

488690[/snapback]

But hey, it's only "pre-season". LOL. Or like last year, Hey it's only the first, second, third, and fourth game." "It's early." And with no cupcakes this year on the schedule except in our division, it will become......"Be patient, we're re-tooling the roster."

 

TD's run should be over. He's failed. Miserably. I'm even willing to give MM the benefit of the doubt, but the GM has been horrid. But hey, he sells jerseys in the pro shop and tells Rochester that this Bills team is theirs.

 

Winning OR having SOME hope also fills seats Ralph.....can TD.

[Typical TBD Guy]

488552[/snapback]

 

A. Teague will be a free agent this offseason, and I assume his replacement will be Duke Preston. Hopefully Duke can get more reps at C this year, but even with his limited performances at G this year, Duke looks to be a major upgrade over TT.

B. Holcomb is a dime-a-dozen, noodle-armed NFL QB who will be easily replaceable. If it's not JP, then it can be any of the veteran QB journeymen who are annually re-circulated into the free agent pool. FYI, he's signed through the 2006 season.

C. Posey sucks anyway. Easily replaceable through free agency or the draft. He has 1 year left on his contract.

D. Shelton is a FB, and not an amazing one at that. Very capable replacements can be found in day 2 of the draft. But if you prefer experience, veteran free agent FB's are also pretty cheap. Even so, I'm not a big fan of the FB position and would prefer a third WR or second TE or even second RB on most plays, anyway. Also has 1 more year left with the Bills.

E. The 6 other players mentioned who are worth anything are: Milloy, Vincent, Fletcher, Adams, Moulds, and Villarial. All 6 are under contract at least through next year, so we have at least 2 full offseasons to find their younger replacements. That's 2 drafts and 2 years of free agency to fill 6 starting positions. VERY doable, provided that Teflon Tom isn't the one doing it.

[Dr. K]

You aren't allowed to say this on this board.  This is like throwing chum off the back of the boat for sharks, only they are called homers on this board.

 

You'll see, it's only a matter of time before you'll have people telling you how these guys are about to hit their prime, OR about to enjoy more pro bowl success.

 

Yeah, TD has done a marvelous job.

488627[/snapback]

 

 

I've generally been a TD supporter. His getting these players was reasonable when he got them, and they've played well until now.

 

But I also say most of them have to go now. I don't see that as incompatible with saying TD has generally made good decisions.

[CoachChuckDickerson]

This team is getting old very fast.  This year is most likely over, and this team

clearly not getting any better. 

 

All players listed are starters, (Shelton ?), and I count ten.

 

In order of last name:

 

95 Adams, Sam DT 6-4 335 32 12 Texas A&M

59 Fletcher, London LB 5-10 245 30 8 John Carroll

10 Holcomb, Kelly QB 6-2 212 32 9 Middle Tennessee State

36 Milloy, Lawyer S 6-0 190 31 10 Washington

80 Moulds, Eric WR 6-2 210 32 10 Mississippi State

96 Posey, Jeff LB 6-4 241 30 8 Southern Mississippi

31 Shelton, Daimon FB 6-0 262 33 8 Sacramento State

70 Teague, Trey OL 6-5 300 30 8 Tennessee

58 Villarrial, Chris OL 6-3 318 32 10 Indiana(Pa)

23 Vincent, Troy S 6-1 200 34 14 Wisconsin

 

 

Now what?

488552[/snapback]

 

And these players aren't even 30 yet.

 

All players listed are starters, and I count ten.

 

In order of last name:

 

Clements, Nate

Evans, Lee

Losman, JP

McGahee, Willis

McGee, Terrence

Parrish, Roscoe

Peters, Jason

Schobel, Aaron

Spikes, Takeo

Williams, Mike

 

We are not an "old team". Look at any team in the NFL, we are below average I'm sure.

[San-O]

A. Teague will be a free agent this offseason, and I assume his replacement will be Duke Preston. Hopefully Duke can get more reps at C this year, but even with his limited performances at G this year, Duke looks to be a major upgrade over TT.

B. Holcomb is a dime-a-dozen, noodle-armed NFL QB who will be easily replaceable. If it's not JP, then it can be any of the veteran QB journeymen who are annually re-circulated into the free agent pool. FYI, he's signed through the 2006 season.

C. Posey sucks anyway. Easily replaceable through free agency or the draft. He has 1 year left on his contract.

D. Shelton is a FB, and not an amazing one at that. Very capable replacements can be found in day 2 of the draft. But if you prefer experience, veteran free agent FB's are also pretty cheap. Even so, I'm not a big fan of the FB position and would prefer a third WR or second TE or even second RB on most plays, anyway. Also has 1 more year left with the Bills.

E. The 6 other players mentioned who are worth anything are: Milloy, Vincent, Fletcher, Adams, Moulds, and Villarial. All 6 are under contract at least through next year, so we have at least 2 full offseasons to find their younger replacements. That's 2 drafts and 2 years of free agency to fill 6 starting positions. VERY doable, provided that Teflon Tom isn't the one doing it.

488744[/snapback]

 

Very nice response. I feel a little better, except for Teflon Tom doing it,

which almost certainly will be.

[jahnyc]

We do need to be concerned about the age of these players because we have no talent ready to replace them, particularly at dt and on the oline.

 

The oline situation frustrates me to no end. For years the coaching was blamed (and we had a carousel of coaches). McNally is a very good coach, and it is now clear that it is the players that are the problem, something most of us thought for years.

[meazza]

Alot of these positions can be assessed in the draft, i dont know the contract situations, but you can trade away a couple of those veterans for draft picks, overall decreasing our cap total, go get a few offensive and defensive linemen and we'll probably be overall better off... !@#$ rebuilding, even teams that say they are rebuilding can win games, rebuilding is a term losers use

This team is getting old very fast.  This year is most likely over, and this team

clearly not getting any better. 

 

All players listed are starters, (Shelton ?), and I count ten.

 

In order of last name:

 

95 Adams, Sam DT 6-4 335 32 12 Texas A&M

59 Fletcher, London LB 5-10 245 30 8 John Carroll

10 Holcomb, Kelly QB 6-2 212 32 9 Middle Tennessee State

36 Milloy, Lawyer S 6-0 190 31 10 Washington

80 Moulds, Eric WR 6-2 210 32 10 Mississippi State

96 Posey, Jeff LB 6-4 241 30 8 Southern Mississippi

31 Shelton, Daimon FB 6-0 262 33 8 Sacramento State

70 Teague, Trey OL 6-5 300 30 8 Tennessee

58 Villarrial, Chris OL 6-3 318 32 10 Indiana(Pa)

23 Vincent, Troy S 6-1 200 34 14 Wisconsin

 

 

Now what?

488552[/snapback]

[MDH]

This team is getting old very fast.  This year is most likely over, and this team

clearly not getting any better. 

 

All players listed are starters, (Shelton ?), and I count ten.

 

In order of last name:

 

95 Adams, Sam DT 6-4 335 32 12 Texas A&M

59 Fletcher, London LB 5-10 245 30 8 John Carroll

10 Holcomb, Kelly QB 6-2 212 32 9 Middle Tennessee State

36 Milloy, Lawyer S 6-0 190 31 10 Washington

80 Moulds, Eric WR 6-2 210 32 10 Mississippi State

96 Posey, Jeff LB 6-4 241 30 8 Southern Mississippi

31 Shelton, Daimon FB 6-0 262 33 8 Sacramento State

70 Teague, Trey OL 6-5 300 30 8 Tennessee

58 Villarrial, Chris OL 6-3 318 32 10 Indiana(Pa)

23 Vincent, Troy S 6-1 200 34 14 Wisconsin

 

 

Now what?

488552[/snapback]

 

Only a few guys on that list are integral to this team: Fletcher, Moulds & Adams (though Adams is debatable as I blame him for much of our run D problems). Everybody else can be replaced pretty easily.

 

I thought Milloy did a good job last year, but I've been pretty disappointed with his play thus far this year. If he turns it around you can add him to the list, otherwise he's just a player not living up to his reputation. Right now I cut him a little slack since he's playing injured.